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Posts from DISCUSSIONS on “Rules for online games in HoMM3 and formulas for calculating player rating.”

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In reply to Pit for LM
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Differences for Jebuss:
- Using "Wings of the Angel" and the spells "Fly" and "Dimension Door" when moving from one zone to another is only allowed if the guard between them has been defeated.
Isn't this a difference? It seems like it's just following the rules.
Show your true face when losing. Make sure it`s not ugly.
In reply to Герой Меча и Магии 3
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Heroes of Might and Magic III
Differences for Jebuss:

Or is this even a difference? It seems like it's not allowed according to the rules.
Show me the rules :) (Don't provide rules for individual tournaments) :)
Всем удачи ! И Морали !
In reply to Pit for LM
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5.12. It is forbidden to enter neighboring territories without breaking through the guard stationed at the passage (i.e., if it is moved). If two or three guards are scattered along the road, any one can be chosen to break through.
If there is no guard at the passage, including if it is moved, it is allowed to freely move from one spawn point to another.

So, "penetrate" means to move across, not to fly or teleport? :)
Show your true face when losing. Make sure it`s not ugly.
In reply to Герой Меча и Магии 3
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Heroes of Might and Magic III
So, "penetrate" means to cross, not to fly through or teleport? :)


The concept of "penetrate" includes the concept of flying through/teleporting.
But with Wings (Flight, Jump), it's not necessary to break through the guard of the respawn point (applicable to many map designs, in particular 2sm4d(3)).
С истиной где-то рядом...





Лето 2010.
In reply to Дубровин Павел
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Dubrovin Pavel
The concept of "penetrating" includes the concept of "flying through" or "teleporting."
But with Wings (Flight, Jump), it's not necessary to break through the guard at the spawn point (applicable to many map designs, in particular 2sm4d(3)).
The meanings of the first and second sentences contradict each other. :)
From the first, it follows that it is impossible to penetrate in any way without breaking through the guard. From the second, it follows the opposite.
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In reply to Герой Меча и Магии 3
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Heroes of Might and Magic III
The meanings of the first and second sentences contradict each other. :)
The first implies that it is impossible to penetrate in any way without breaking through the guard. The second implies the opposite.


If questions arise regarding the possibility (of course, it is possible, in particular on 2sm4d(3)) of penetrating into neighboring territories without breaking through the guard, given the presence of Flight (Wings) or Dimensional Door, then we will clarify this point in the Rules.
С истиной где-то рядом...





Лето 2010.
In reply to Pit for LM
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I don't understand why it's allowed when it's clearly stated that it's not. :) If that's the case, please clarify so that it's clearly stated what is allowed.
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In reply to Yakudza
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Damn guys, who created the rules? In my opinion, there is a flaw in them. Clause
5 12 states that you cannot move from respawn to respawn without killing the guards. So where did it come from that in SMK you can jump over or fly over on angel wings? I started arguing about this and turned out to be wrong; maybe there are some other rules /topic/3515/ besides these already edited ones? If not, then I believe that to avoid unnecessary questions, this should be written down and put on public display. For example, I am a newbie, and based on the rules, I believe I am right and you cannot move from respawn to respawn without breaking through the guards. Try to convince me otherwise based on the aforementioned rules. We are talking about breaking ГО when there is an opportunity—not on the way, but regardless—to bypass ГО and break through from the other side of the respawn
завязал!!!!!!!!!
In reply to soulist80114522293
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soulist80114522293
Guys, who created the rules? In my opinion, there are some flaws in them, specifically point
5.12 states that you cannot move from one respawn to another without killing the guards. So where did the idea come from that you can jump or fly over on angel wings in CM? I started arguing and it turned out I was wrong. Maybe there are other rules besides these edited ones? /topic/3515/ If not, I think it would be worth writing this down and making it public so that there aren't any unnecessary questions. For example, I am a beginner, and based on the rules, I believe that I am right and that it is impossible to move from one respawn to another without defeating the guards. Try to convince me otherwise, based on the above rules. This concerns breaking ГО when there is an opportunity to go around instead of going directly, but still bypass ГО and break through from the other side of the respawn.


Actually, if there is a dispute, then this particular point of the current Rules says that you are correct because:

5.10. "Angel Wings" can be used without any restrictions, unless it contradicts paragraph 5.13.

This has already been discussed: In the new version of the Rules, it will explicitly state that it is possible to penetrate into other territories (in particular, on the 2sm4d(3) template) without defeating the respawn guards.
С истиной где-то рядом...





Лето 2010.
In reply to Pit for LM
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I hope that in the first round, everyone who wanted to has already expressed their opinion. Organizational matters. What is happening now in this thread is called a DISCUSSION. Currently, we continue to play by the old rules in both the season and tournaments. I would like to introduce a new version of the rules starting with the winter season; I need a month to finish writing the missing sections, and the forum needs to discuss everything and come to an agreement. We will only include in the rules what is approved by the majority during the discussion. As for the points that cause controversy, I suggest introducing them as experimental ones for one season, i.e., during the winter, players who want to test the correctness of the rule in the game will write down their impressions in reports. Perhaps someone will even organize a themed tournament. Based on these impressions, from spring onwards, we will either adopt the amendment or revert to the old wording. In Section II - in the rules for SoD and CM - we are discussing only SoD. No comments regarding other versions will be included here. In Section I, I wrote about the versions and allowed additional programs. In the seasonal games, choosing a version is up to the players. There are no prohibitions or restrictions. Also, we will not impose anything from above. Tournament organizers will decide for themselves what and how to play. I would like to remind you of the discussion that took place a little more than a year ago – regarding the TE-Lite version. At that time, there were also those who wanted to make this version the main and only one. By the way, there is a program that removes tree swaying and monster movement. If anyone has it, please put it in Useful Information; maybe someone will find it useful. Respecting copyrights, I must note that the new edition is based on the Rules developed by invisible, vbn, SS-D, ewgeniy1985, Decontaminationator, KostyaN, and others, who, in turn, partially used material from heroesportal.net, where Lady Ash was the author of the rules:
Also, let's not forget to thank those whose new wording was borrowed: The amendment regarding restarts was taken from the Portal PL rules, author Neoandy. They have been playing like this for about a year and a half, and I haven't heard any complaints. Suggestions regarding hit-and-run tactics and the obligation to inform the opponent about breaking through defenses were taken from Wicc's post. But these suggestions are causing controversy, so we will edit them. Regarding the border guard, I was asked several times, there was a discussion, I don’t remember when or in which thread, so I formulated it myself. The amendment regarding Izre and Vidomine was inspired by the situation in numOne's game in the seasonal games. Thank you all for participating in the discussion; next, I will try to summarize opinions on specific points in Section II.
In reply to Дубровин Павел
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Dubrovin Pavel
Actually, if there's a dispute, this point in the current Rules states that you are allowed to do so, because:

5.10. "Wings of the Angel" can be used without any restrictions, as long as it doesn't contradict section 5.13.

This has already been discussed extensively, I repeat:
The new version of the Rules will explicitly state that it is permissible to enter other territories without breaking the Guard, (in particular, on the 2sm4d(3) template).

The point about the wings is described very subtly. Or perhaps it should be point 5.12. It's already clear that anyone who has recently played according to the current rules will always understand that it is never permissible to enter without breaking the Guard. They should have added something about the wings there. Again, according to 5.10, it only says that it is permissible to enter with wings, but where did the damage and flight come from then?...
And in the new version, will it even be possible not to attack the Guard? (if it can simply be bypassed)
Show your true face when losing. Make sure it`s not ugly.
In reply to Герой Меча и Магии 3
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Hero of Might and Magic III
The point about wings was described very subtly. Or perhaps point 5.12 then. It's clear that someone who has recently been playing according to the current rules will always understand that under no circumstances is it possible to pass through without breaking it down. They should have added something about wings there. Again, according to 5.10, only those with wings can pass through, so where did Dimension Door and flight come from?
And in the new edition, will it be possible not even to attack GO? (if you can simply go around it)
Listen, in this thread (/topic/3960/), Kash explained in detail back in February that GO must be attacked if it is shifted. That is, for example, on the second day, you cannot reach your opponent by going through a shifted GO according to the rules. But if it stands on the road, and before acquiring Dimension Door/flight/wings, you cannot get to your opponent bypassing the GO directly, then later you don’t need to break it down. Don’t you read the reports? Dozens of games here were won without breaking down GO (code name for the maneuver: DD-GG). This also surprised me at first, but then I found the aforementioned topic and realized that GO does not need to be broken down. As Kash rightly noted, we are beginners, and due to our lack of experience, we have not encountered situations in our games where the opponent did not break down the GO, but flew over it or used Dimension Door. This has nothing to do with the new edition.
ВОИН КЛАНА "РЫЦАРИ АПОКАЛИПСИСА"
Никогда не теряйте концентрации, даже если абсолютно уверены в своей победе: секундная расслабленность, и триумф обернётся горьким поражением.
"Любой filowandel запросто станет Neverminder-ом, если захочет". Kash.
In reply to Pit for LM
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The issue with wings and damage dealers is clear. We will make it work properly and clearly.

Comments and summaries on section II (beginning).

II. Rules for online games on the 2SM4d(3) template and the SoD version.

3. Color and Castle selection:
....
Yourdestiny
And another question about the "check" system, why would I want to "check" if I enjoy playing as a specific faction and would like to play as it?) Judging by the tournament, people don't seem to be fixated on overpowered factions, and the distribution is more or less smooth.
The distribution of "preference" for factions is smoother than the distribution of results.
It's not enough for you to want to play as a specific faction; your opponent must also agree with this.
The rule is written for the 2SM4d(3) template, where the blue player's starting generator is, on average, slightly weaker. Therefore, blue uses the right to choose a faction first (a slightly stronger one) to compensate for this. Usually, the player who is lower in the ranking starts the "check" process (I will write this in section VI. Regulations for the Seasonal Ranked Tournament), and the second player chooses the red color. With skillful "checking," relatively comparable factions remain for selection.
Also, in section V. Non-standard and controversial situations. Judging.
there will be a clause:
Any changes to the rules are allowed with the mutual consent of the players...
That is, players can agree on the selection of factions and not "check."

4. Restarts.
....
Yourdestiny
I would remove restarts (except for situations with more than one starting castle, no fort, and several cities), in my opinion, it's much more interesting to get out of all sorts of difficult situations, which will add a non-standard element to the development.
Actually, I removed restarts
– if a player has more than one castle at the start;
– if there is no fort built in the starting castle.
because I have never seen anything like this myself, nor have I heard of anyone else experiencing it. If this happens, please let me know, and I will add them back.
But we will not remove subjective restarts; this proposal will not find support.
Kluka
So, if an empty enemy castle is captured on map 116 without a fight, is this grounds for a restart or not? This is a fundamental question when trying to avoid a restart due to a match.
No, according to the current rules, it is not grounds for a restart. The only basis can be a battle between heroes. If you want to avoid a restart due to a match, it is quite possible to do so. This point was discussed for a long time, and we settled on this wording; I only changed it regarding the timing depending on the roads.

There is a proposal for subjective restarts:
Subjective restarts:
each player has the right to take a restart/restarts, that is, start a new game with a map regeneration. It is possible to take either 3 restarts on the first day of the game (111+111+111), or 2 restarts on the first and second day (111+112 or 112+111), or one restart on the third day (113).
Or we can leave it as:
Subjective restarts:
each player has the right to take a restart twice: on the first day of the game and within three days, that is, start a new game with a map regeneration.

Which do we prefer?We can either vote or introduce it experimentally for the winter season (111+111+111 or 112+111 or 113).

Will we introduce
Restarts for one road in the Global Order and a strong block?

We can either vote or test it in the winter season.[/B]

That's all for today; I've written a lot
In reply to Pit for LM
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What do we prefer? Either we can vote, or introduce it experimentally for the winter season (111+111+111 or 112+111 or 113).
I would suggest 2 options:
Option 1: introduce experimentally for the winter season - 3 rest days in total (and no restarts for a single road on ГО, blocks, roads not on ГО, ugly respawn, etc. - you have as many as three rest days to fix these issues...)
Option 2: introduce experimentally for the winter season - 2 rest days in total, if there is a technical restart for 1 road on ГО and a "strong" block.

For me, Option 1 is preferable - simple and clear. In the second option, various, shall we say, misunderstandings are possible when defining the word "strong" - both at the stage of discussing the word and at the stage of interpretation and clarification already in games...
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understood))))))))))))))))
завязал!!!!!!!!!

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