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Posts from [ARTICLE] Troop Experience

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Offline FireToSky
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#31
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Vik has explained everything perfectly; I don't even know what else to add...
Oelm, as for mages, I'm not sure. I don't mind playing as them sometimes, especially since you can be sure you won't get a red orb or cloak, while in Fortress, magic often decides the outcome!
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Offline Dirty_Player
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#32
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Oelm
P.S. I know how to kill a stack of Uber Trolls, but I don't know what to do with a stack of upgraded Black Dragons.
I don't know what needs to be done to get the game to the point where Black Dragons are upgraded. When does this usually happen? :confused:
Wicc
Let's take an average, spherical Heroes player in a vacuum. Which ruleset would make it easier for him to win against Alex? A SOD-CM game with all these morale rules, 10 Goblins, and other nonsense? Or a mirror match with "everything turned on"? Naturally, in a SOD-CM game, there's a non-zero chance of pushing Alex into a corner or waiting for him to lose due to morale. But in a mirror match, the score will always be N-0 for any N.
Yura, you seem to be linking CM and SOD, and mirror matches and experience. I think Alex will win with the same score even without experience in a mirror match. And I don't quite understand how a CM game with experience differs from a CM game without experience? :confused:
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Offline LeBron
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#33
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Oelm, ASM is writing correctly) if the template is not Jebus Cross (and sometimes even if it is), playing with experience and tax - everyone forgets about it for some reason xD you simply won't be able to finance both cats and trogs together, when they start taking 4k per day from you for your papal army, a financial crisis will suddenly hit the country, and the state, as usual, will screw everyone over with bonds :D
I personally am neutral towards experience, whether it's there or not, just different tactics and nothing more (especially my beloved Inferno :) )
and everything was correctly written above - experience simplifies the game against neutrals, but greatly complicates the game against the opponent, whatever you like more is solely your own business ;)
P.S. the latest release of WoG should finally reconcile SoD players and WoG players, we just need to give ASM a good nudge :D

"Это нам идеально подходит!" [Новосибирск, 2013]
"Красавчик! Если только не читер.." [Киев, 2014]
"Это Вам не шутки - нажрался Dust в маршрутке" [Новокузнецк, 2015]
Сам ты фиш (с) :D
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Offline Oelm
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#34
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Isn't there a financial crisis in Heroes of Might and Magic?))(without Panic only)

P.S. It's not difficult to level up Black Dragons, it's more difficult to build them. In one of the games, at the end of the second week, I had five of them (8/6) and they were for the Barbarian faction. In the third game, they were already leveled up.

P.S. Regarding mages, I don't know, - at first glance, only mages with the learning skill are viable.
Земля нуля.
Все в ней нулево и кукольно.
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Offline Dirty_Player
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#35
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Oelm
P.S. It's not difficult to level up Black Dragons, the hard part is building them. In one of the games, by the end of the second week, I had five of them (8/6) and they were for the Barbarians. In the third week, they were already leveled up.
In one game. But what about the others? And before the Black Dragons appear, what will you fight with?

P.S.: There's no need to even talk about Inferno and experience. When four Imps turn into one Demon, it's just crazy :D

Added 2 minutes later
And how is it "not difficult to level up"? 140,000 experience points don't just appear on the road.
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Offline Loi
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#36
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Haha! Another pointless argument between pointy-eared and sharp-eared folks))
Well, whatever, it's all good... it means there's activity, there's life...
Стратегия - искусство возможного.

Первое правило форума :
"Хвалу и клевету приемли равнодушно
И не оспаривай глупца" (с)

Новичкам: ВНИМАТЕЛЬНО перечитайте ВЕСЬ первый пост по нижеприведенной ссылке и 90% ваших вопросов отпадут( на остальные 10% с удовольствием отвечу):
Правила онлайн игр
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Offline Wicc
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#37
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Oelm
Vik's post is quite amusing; they probably tormented him with cowards, and he's dreaming about them now. But, SOD gameplay is not about morality at all, but primarily about the diversity of development options. In SOD, for example, there can be situations where you want to take a difficult object – let's say, a castle of level 3-4, but it's clear that there will be significant army losses, so you think, do you really need it, or should you return here in two or three days and take it with some trick. In TEfull, such questions usually don't arise because, due to the troop upgrade system, such exchanges are usually not profitable.
What are you talking about... :). In VTfull, you have to solve exactly the kind of problem you describe – choosing between speed, power, and upgrades. And in SOD, you just pray, "Lord, save me from morale," and you're on your way.
Yura, you somehow associate CM, SOD, mirror matches, and experience? I think Alex will win with the same score in a mirror match, even without experience. And I don't quite understand how a CM with experience differs from a CM without experience?
I presented two extreme points on the scale. Full mirror matches are currently the most popular rules. It's clear that even without many of the features, they will remain popular, just to a slightly lesser extent.

Regarding mages – now, with or without experience, they are not viable. We need to improve the mages themselves, not reduce their experience gain. Moreover, all the difficulties for mages are concentrated in the early stages of the game – it's difficult to fight due to the lack of normal regeneration. In the late game, mages are actually great – the experience from arena off-tournaments on the League shows that in the final, a mage is often preferable to a warrior, even with upgrades.
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Offline Oelm
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#38
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the experience of arena off-tournaments on the League shows that a mage in the endgame is preferable to a warrior in most cases, even with upgrades.

How so? I don't know which arenas were used there, but it sounds very doubtful.

Vik, I don't understand what this obsession with morale is about. Is SoD primarily about morale-based neutrals for you?

As for the blacks—it depends heavily on the player's skill when they will appear and how many. This, by the way, is the main argument against the idea that morale gets in the way, mages are non-viable in SoD, etc.
Земля нуля.
Все в ней нулево и кукольно.
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Offline PReDS
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#39
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Oelm
What do you mean by this? I don't know what arenas were used, but it sounds very dubious.

...
Here's how it is: go to the League and read the reports from arena tournaments: on the same Jame2, where there are a lot of hidden spots of level 7, and, as a result, in the final, a lot of heavily armored warriors were defeated and left with 0 health.
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Offline Oelm
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#40
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I'll drop by, take a look, it's not just about the stats, but also about the upgrade options and other parameters.
Земля нуля.
Все в ней нулево и кукольно.
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Offline Erdem
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#41
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readme
+1.
This is an attempt to turn Heroes into Disciples, but a failed one. Where have you ever seen troops that are in the castle and doing nothing gain experience just because others are constantly in battles?

+1, I also disagree with the creature experience system.
Wicc
I prayed in the soda shop, "Lord, save me from morale," and then left.

In a game with morale, you don't need to pray; you need to calculate, adjust your tactics (play it safe), i.e., sometimes try to keep your valuable stack at a double distance from the neutral creature or shoot with a penalty. In a normal battle with neutral creatures, the chance factor accounts for no more than 10-20%, and if you force the issue/take risks, the probability naturally increases to 50% or higher, and as a result, you lose due to morale – this is your own risk. The same applies to group stacks...
In Warlords and Titans, these creatures become amoral mummies/zombies – castrates (it's better to replace them with 20-49 skeletons and a pandora with experience nearby – why waste time?). In my opinion, every living creature has the right to morale! P.S. I'm not from Greenpeace, but still... :smile02:
Человек человеку - друг!
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Offline Lider1
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#42
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Oelm
There is a clear tendency towards linearity in the game (which, by the way, increases its repetitiveness).

Excellent words, sir :smile12:
Сейчас балуюсь этим https://vcmi.eu/download/
За то что нейтралы не бегают за единичкой, для меня это уже стоит того
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Offline Oelm
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#43
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Erdem, I think Vic understands this himself; he's just promoting the Warlord Tactics version.
Земля нуля.
Все в ней нулево и кукольно.
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Offline Wicc
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#44
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Erdem
In a game with morale, you shouldn't pray; instead, you need to calculate, adjust your tactics (play it safe), i.e., sometimes try to wait with a valuable stack at double the distance from a neutral creature or shoot with a penalty. In a normal battle with morale affecting neutral creatures, chance accounts for no more than 10-20%, and if you force the issue/take a risk, the probability naturally increases to 50% or higher, and as a result, losing due to morale is already at your own risk. The same applies to group stacks...
I know all this; I've played a lot with morale, and I know what's what. That's why my point of view is as I expressed it. Morale adds to the game what is called "cooler" in poker. Ask our poker players why they don't like coolers. Morale is the same.
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Offline Lider1
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#45
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Oelm
Erdem, I think Vik understands this himself; he's just promoting the VT version.

No, he's promoting several VTs, and there's a lot of customization involved. With experience.

By the way, regarding mirror images and balance, it would be interesting to try them out, but there are 2 reasons preventing that.

1. Strong hyper-modernization. That is, hives/cons.

I would personally play hives/cons if there were the same number of units in symmetrical positions, i.e., 4 at this point, and the opponent also has 4 at this point, and 12 at this point, and the opponent also has 12. But what exists at the moment makes me not even want to open it (a vomiting smiley).

2. The hassle of creating them (we're waiting for Asma's 0.42).
Сейчас балуюсь этим https://vcmi.eu/download/
За то что нейтралы не бегают за единичкой, для меня это уже стоит того
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