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Posts from Poll regarding changes to the AK regulations.

Tournament History Closed Topic
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Accept changes?
35 voters
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Yes
60% 21 votes
No
40% 14 votes
In reply to Wlk777
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Offline Kash
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Posts: 4,408
#136
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Wlk777
He did the right thing – if independent tournament organizations have achieved the right to accept cheaters and ignore AK decisions, then there is not much point in it anymore; now each AK member should think about whether it makes sense to spend their time on almost meaningless work.
We didn't achieve anything; we just expressed our opinion. In fact, the survey was organized as it was, so that's what the results were. Did you even understand the essence of the survey? Or did you just see the word "cheater" and rush to prove how righteous you are and how much you hate them? Let me remind you that all official tournaments (which are also "under the auspices of TK," i.e., simply put, those for which avatars are awarded) are closed to happy owners of Champion Maps Challenge, and there is no need to make a fuss about this.

Perhaps some people don't know, but all official tournaments are held according to the "Rules for organizing, conducting, and participating in online HOMM3 tournaments," a link to which is usually given in the first post of the tournament. Take a look at my tournament or Artem's and see for yourself. And we are obliged to follow these rules, and we do. It says rather cautiously about the holders of the Champion Maps Challenge, but nevertheless clearly.

I like how the relationship between AK and the organizer is described in these rules; I fully agree with this interpretation and support it. Especially for Hermi, Wlk, and others who insist on my arbitrariness in the tournament, I will quote the procedure for actions in controversial situations, which I strictly adhere to:
1. Controversial situations arise due to violations of the game rules, disconnections, synchronization problems, software glitches, etc.
2. The Organizer resolves controversial issues during the tournament.
...
4. If difficulties arise in resolving a dispute, both Participants and the Organizer and the Judge have the right to apply to AK.
...
7. The decision is made by the Organizer; it can be appealed by the dissatisfied party to the Tournament Judge and/or to AK.
Everything is clear here.
Now about "fan" tournaments, for which this survey was actually organized. What does a fan tournament represent and what is its purpose? Pit recently wrote about this. I can say it more simply: a group of friends has come together with the aim of having fun, goofing off somewhere, experimenting somewhere, or testing something. In a fan tournament (well, if the organizer isn't "completely bad"), there usually isn't room for squabbles, flame wars, and cheating. Rules, deadlines, disputes – all are discussed jointly; the organizer is basically just formal: draws up tables and casts lots. And if this group of people doesn't mind some character participating in the tournament, why on earth should AK, TK, the organizer, Wlk tell them what they can and cannot do? Let them play as they want and with whoever they want! Don't interfere with their fun. Fan tournaments are not subject to any rules, commissions, or committees

And separately to Pasha. I don't understand what connection there is between the survey and your participation/non-participation in the work of AK. Well, an amendment was proposed, but it wasn't adopted – that happens... But I think it's wrong to freak out about it
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Offline Wlk777
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#137
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Kash, it's not entirely accurate. In fact, Pavel created this thread largely due to Kostya's (DirtyPlayer) behavior. He not only entered an official tournament with the World Champion, which was already a problem, but during the tournament (either this one or another), there was a game where maphacking was clearly visible, and there was even a screenshot proving the save file had been tampered with. However, Kostya, driven by his ambitions and some unclear principles, stated that he didn't care, and that even if the World Champion was given to a player who lost to a cheater in a game where maphacking was evident, that player wouldn't go far in the tournament. These kinds of situations create unnecessary disputes. For example, I understand the reaction of people who spend a lot of time studying controversial save files, only to find out that their decision doesn't really have much weight. IMHO.
Всем удачи ! И Морали !
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Offline Kash
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#138
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Konstantin, as far as I know, usually takes responsibility for his words and actions. But you need to ask directly, not through some roundabout ways.
The essence of the poll was: should fan (unofficial) tournaments be subject to the rule that has so far only applied to official ones? We answered: No. What does Dirty have to do with it, the official tournament, specific situations in official tournaments?
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Offline Wlk777
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#139
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Kash
Kostya, as far as I know, usually stands by his words and actions. But you need to ask directly, not through some roundabout ways.
The essence of the poll was: should fan (unofficial) tournaments be subject to the rule that has so far only applied to official ones? We answered: No. What does Dirty have to do with it, an official tournament, specific situations in official tournaments?
It's easy to get confused about which tournament is official and which isn't. What about Elimination Chamber? Probably official, since the winner gets a spot in the FB. What is the World Champion of Clash of Heroes doing there then?
Всем удачи ! И Морали !
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Offline Kash
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#140
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Wlk777
It's easy to get confused about which tournaments are official and which aren't. What about the Elimination Chamber? It's probably an official tournament since the winner gets a spot in the FB. What's the deal with the Clash of Champions winner then?
1. The Elimination Chamber is an unofficial tournament because there's no confirmation to the contrary.
2. Winners of fan tournaments don't receive official awards, but as far as I understand, the organizer can discuss this with the Tournament Committee and the Creator and, as an exception, somehow reward them. I think that, according to the current rules on Hv, if the Clash of Champions winner wins the Elimination Chamber, they won't get a spot in the FB, because the FB is an official tournament.
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Offline Hermit
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#144
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Never mind, in the next AK elections, I think both Dubrovin Pavel and Loi will return to the AK, and maybe even sooner...
Всё не так плохо как Вы думаете. Всё намного хуже!
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Offline Wicc
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#145
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Hermit
It's okay, I think Dubrovin Pavel and Loi will return to the AC in the next elections, or maybe even sooner...
Another two-step move with an image of feigned innocence? :D

It's been done before...
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Offline Дубровин Павел
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#146
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Dirty_Player
Pasha, why this blackmail?

No, Kostya, I didn't intend to blackmail.
If I wanted, I could have simply written that the amendment was adopted because the majority of Players voted for it.
But I am convinced that this change is fundamental and cannot be adopted by a simple majority.
I simply came to the conclusion that it is fundamentally important for me that the decision of the authorized game dispute resolution body regarding the World Championship (and all its negative consequences) is made by everyone, without exception (including Tournament Organizers).
However, the Players decided that Tournament Organizers are more important than the authorized body, and I cannot remain in this situation.

I consider it unacceptable when the negative consequences of the World Championship, in one case, extend to the Tournament Organizer on Volde, and in another case, they do not. And the boundary between these cases seems illusory to me.
С истиной где-то рядом...





Лето 2010.
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Offline Dirty_Player
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Posts: 11,030
#147
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Wlk777
Kash, it's not quite like that. Actually, this topic was created by Pavel largely under the influence of Kostya's (DirtyPlayer) behavior.
I'll comment. Maybe my behavior surprises someone, but no one has expressed any outrage to me.
1. Why did I include a player with a "Black Mark" in the tournament? Because the poll I conducted allows me to do so easily. Neither in ICQ nor in PM did I receive A SINGLE COMPLAINT.
2. Why didn't I award the "Black Mark" to a player whose saves are, for many, 100% proof of maphacking? After studying the saves and talking with the suspect, I received answers to my questions that satisfied me. Considering that this player has no history of any wrongdoing, removing him from the tournament and giving him a "Black Mark" would be wrong on my part. I am confident that the AC will make the same decision. I don't want to return to this issue anymore!

P.S.: Valentin. Do you remember the situation in Keba's match? You even put your reputation on the line, being 100% sure. Do you remember how it ended?
Kash
I think that according to the current Hv rules, if a player with a "Black Mark" wins the ECL, they will not receive a spot in the FB, because the FB is an official tournament.
Exactly. I don't understand why Petya started making a fuss about this spot? Well, he wants it or he doesn't, it's his right. He is the master of his word :D

Regarding the ECL. I came up with this tournament myself. I wanted to open it, and I did, so this tournament is a fan tournament. The fact that a reward will be given for it, to be displayed under the avatar, should no longer concern anyone. The reward will be given, everything is fine with the Creator.

Regarding the AC. Personally, I think that an amendment should be introduced. ONLY the tournament organizer/judge or the seasonal games host has the right to appeal to the AC. Why is this? So that the AC doesn't waste time on all sorts of nonsense.

Added after 7 minutes
Dubrovin Pavel
However, the players believe that the Tournament Organizers are more important than the authorized structure, and I cannot stay in this position.
Pash, don't talk nonsense. The tournament organizers are people with brains; most of them unanimously state their disagreement, providing arguments that you don't even hear.
Dubrovin Pavel
I believe it is unacceptable when the negative consequences of a "Black Mark," in one case, extend to the Tournament Organizer on Volde, and in another case, they do not. And the boundary between these cases seems illusory to me.
What negative consequences? Name at least one? I have a player with a "Black Mark" in my tournament (you voted "FOR" in the poll about a second chance, if you remember). Are there any dissatisfied people? Well, I don't think so. I understand that my tournament is partly the reason for this, but why aren't the complaints sent via ICQ? :confused:
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Offline Wlk777
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#148
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Dirty_Player
Let me comment. My behavior may surprise some, but no one has expressed outrage to me.
Outrage was definitely expressed; maybe you just didn't notice it.
Dirty_Player

Why didn't you reward the player with a badge when their saves are, for many, 100% proof of maphacking? After studying the saves and talking to the suspect, I got answers to the questions that satisfied me. Considering that this player has no history of any wrongdoing, removing them from the tournament and giving them a ban would be wrong on my part. I am confident that the AC will make the same decision. I don't want to return to this issue!
Let's say, how did he explain why his save is 10+ hours later than the match was postponed? Regarding the AC, you shouldn't rush; as far as I know, the voting is not in his favor. Why have an AC if you can determine a player's honesty on your own? And you're still surprised why Pavel left...
Всем удачи ! И Морали !
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Offline Дубровин Павел
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#149
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Dirty_Player


What are the negative consequences? Name just one. I have a player with a ban in my tournament (you voted "FOR" the second chance poll, if you remember). Are there any dissatisfied players? Not really. I understand that my tournament is partly the reason for this, but why not voice complaints via ICQ? :confused:

When talking about the "negative consequences of a ban," I meant that the Tournament Organizer should prevent (disqualify) a player with a ban (until the ban is lifted).
By the way, it would be good to establish a procedure for lifting bans.
С истиной где-то рядом...





Лето 2010.
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Offline Dirty_Player
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#150
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Wlk777
There were definitely complaints, maybe you just didn't notice them.
Where? Why didn't anyone write anything to me on ICQ? What's the point of complaining into the void? :confused:
Wlk777
Regarding the AK, I wouldn't rush to conclusions; as far as I know, the vote isn't in his favor.
It's interesting how the AK works these days. It's even known who votes how during the "secret" vote :D
I won't answer questions about that match. I've made a decision about that match, and I won't change it.
By the way, it would be good to regulate the procedure for removing a Champion of Champions.
It finally dawned on you!!! :smile03:
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Offline Wlk777
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#151
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Dirty_Player

I won't answer questions about that game.
You don't have anything to say about the save time. Have you read "The Golden Calf"? There, O. Bender also refused to show his ticket on the train "on principle": D
Всем удачи ! И Морали !
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Offline Hermit
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#152
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Dubrovin Pavel
However, players believe that Tournament Organizers are more important than the authorized structure, and I cannot remain in this position.
Personally, I believe the opposite. And the fact that players voted "No" doesn't necessarily mean they think that way. The authorized structure is more important than the organizer in controversial situations. But still, in my opinion, the decision of whether or not to allow a player, even one with a "Cheater of the Month" title, into a tournament should be made by the organizers and players themselves, with the organizers having the primary say. There should be self-regulation without external intervention... Having a "Cheater of the Month" title from another tournament doesn't necessarily mean a controversial situation or a violation of the rules.
Всё не так плохо как Вы думаете. Всё намного хуже!
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Offline ZM
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#153
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Wlk777
You don't have anything to say about the save time. Have you read "The Golden Calf"? There, O. Bender also refused to show his ticket on the train "on principle":D

I haven't heard anything about the save time yet... so, please enlighten me, comrades... and in general, if there are any other questions that I haven't heard about, feel free to ask me on ICQ...
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