Forum — Tournament Committee

Vigo

16 years ago

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Catch

Vitya, to be honest, something else rubs me the wrong way. You promise Baya Besha cognac, then here you invite Vlk and Britva as guests at your own expense, but in reality it turns out quite differently...

Besha turned down the cognac, too bad, it was good Dagestani stuff, genuine :(

And for vlk and Britva we'll pool together, there are many of us here in Moscow who want to meet them, we'll scrape together 500-1000 rubles each to welcome such guests and put them up/feed them for a day or two.

Any other complaints besides the unforeseen screw-up with the tournament on HP?

Added after 14 minutes

bRitvo4kA

To Vigo: thanks for the offer, but there's no reason to trust you yet.
Regarding the claim that wlk777 and I are the same person, that's a wild one :D I live in Lviv, and as far as I know he's in Volgograd.
First settle your debts, provide all the details about the ban on the portal, and then we'll see.
By the way, how's Luser? He last visited the forum in April, why isn't he posting anything? He wasn't even banned, not even given a marking tag, right?
Did the best Rampart player lose his love for Heroes, is he playing under a different nickname, or what?
Why is his report style similar to yours?

Well, my debts shouldn't concern you at all, mind your own business, I'll sort it out somehow without your help.
Regarding the ban, I already explained, there are no saves or logs left, the decision was made based on experience and after consulting with players who had been playing when you were probably still sitting on the potty :) I didn't just randomly ban anyone for no reason, but specifically you :)

Luser is having a rough time now :( After everyone piled on him, he really lost his drive for Heroes :( Plus he's preparing for surgery. But I think he'll definitely come back. You can't fall out of love with Heroes!
And of course the reports will be similar, he spent half a year watching how I play, and I was the one who taught him.

Any more questions?

In reply to Vigo

bRitvo4kA

16 years ago

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Vigo

I already explained about the ban; there are no saves or logs left. The decision was made based on experience and after consulting with players who were already playing when you were probably still in diapers. I didn't just randomly ban anyone out of boredom; I specifically banned you. :)

I started playing Heroes online. Over time, I played with 7 different heroes, and I posted the correspondence with them. In the first games, I didn't save, but then I was told that it would be good to save for analyzing mistakes, and I made it a tradition in subsequent games. I'm not arguing that my first steps look ridiculous; I didn't know the rules, I was emotionally aggressive towards players, I built a capitol, but what was the cheating that you accused me of? Refresh your memory!

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10 files attached • Total size: 1.7 MB

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In reply to bRitvo4kA

Wlk777

16 years ago

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bRitvo4kA

To Vigo: thanks for the offer, but I have no reason to trust you for now.

+1. I even have serious reasons not to trust Vigo. I'm not going to prove anything to him as such, let him prove his own honesty, which about 90% of the more or less strong HeroesWorld players strongly doubt and do not play with him (except for newcomers), and all he can do is shift the blame from the guilty to the innocent.

Added after 4 minutes

Vigo

And the reports will of course be similar, he watched me play for half a year, and I taught him.

Any more questions?

Did you teach him how to read too? (Personally, I don't doubt that) Where did the cheat program come from, who installed it, an absolute noob in software (enough to broadcast your own online cheating) Loser?

In reply to Wlk777

Catch

16 years ago

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By a majority vote, the members of the AC concluded that there was no unfair play on the part of Britvochka (Andrey) regarding the capture of 147 Dragon Utopia.

Can you post the results by name? Or is the voting for this determination secret?

Added after 8 minutes

Vigo

Are there any other grievances besides the unforeseen screw-up with the HP tournament?

Vitya, I don't want to rake up the past. I won't say why Gorbik kept you in the masters for a year and a half, even though you didn't lead anything on the portal except for the thousand-dollar tournament. Even then, an opinion of you as a person had already formed. But what finally did me in, of course, was when you hit up my ICQ in August 2008 to make peace, like, apologizing for the disagreements; I told you that if you had paid for the tournament, I had no grievances against you. You didn't answer directly, but gave to understand that you had paid. And then in October I find out that you didn't pay a damn thing. You know, I couldn't even imagine that there are people in this world who not only cannot fulfill their obligations, but also lie shamelessly about it...

In reply to Catch

Дубровин Павел

16 years ago

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Catch

Could you publish the results by name? Or is the voting confidential?

...

According to the regulations, it is currently confidential.

Wicc

16 years ago

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Pasha chose the perfect time for the discussion about "Armageddon's Blade" :). It coincided with my vacation, so I couldn't actively participate. Now I see the result, and I have a feeling of "I knew it...". I guess I overestimated the second team of the Academy. They are making the same mistakes again. But Loy explained everything accurately, even if it wasn't entirely politically correct. Well, whatever... for some reason, I feel that life will sort things out this time as well.

Wlk777

16 years ago

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Once again, the opinion of the AK did not align with the opinion of our guru, hence the conclusion: AK is worthless, of course. Loy completely dismissed the argument (and even used crude insults, which he, as a moderator, should have deleted; after that, my respect for him dropped sharply) by comparing the development of the Razor in two games with dead and chocolate-like scenarios. In the chocolate scenario, the development is better, therefore, Razor is a cheater. Nonsense. You guys are just talking nonsense; instead of wasting your breath, you should analyze the games of Razor vs. NeoAndy, prove your point, or at least try. Or just be quiet.

In reply to Wlk777

Oelm

16 years ago

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Wicc

Pasha chose the time for the discussion about Razor very wisely. It just happened to coincide with my vacation, so I couldn't actively participate.

Well, participate now, maybe you'll change someone's opinion. Just please, no hysterics.

In reality: NONE of the 14, or however many people there were, could offer anything that even remotely resembled a justification. And what do you call people who throw accusations but don't stand behind their words?

Instead, there's an abundance of hand-wringing and shouting that, since someone beat me, they must definitely be a cheater.

There is one episode that is clearly a gameplay issue, and I don't care about the opinions of "experts" who say that a strong player would never play like that.

At the same time, I had the opportunity to rewatch Vitalik's game analysis on the portal. Because at the time, I blindly trusted the so-called "experts." And now, I think that at least 70% of the criticisms of the game are complete nonsense, although I'm not ready to change my opinion about Vitalik yet.

In reply to Oelm

Wicc

16 years ago

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Oelm

Wicc

Well, participate now, maybe you can change someone's opinion. Just please, no hysterics.

I participated as best as I could, managed to write 3 posts, and express my point of view there along with arguments. I didn't see any counterarguments, except for some vague mumbling.

Now it doesn't make sense to try to convince them, the Arbitration Committee (AK) has closed the issue.

Plus, I don't have access to the internal AK discussion of this situation, and without knowing the course of their thinking, it's difficult to point out a flawed logical transition.

And who voted how is also unknown; perhaps the logic of the reasoning was based on aspects not directly related to the situation being discussed.

For example, maybe someone in the AK thinks that Britva is a cheater, but doesn't think the arguments in the episode are sufficient for a ban, and prefers to wait until he is caught more clearly.

Or maybe there are some friendly connections with Britva or unfriendly connections with Valenko.

Or, for example, someone thinks that Valenko also cheated, so you can't punish only one, and the topic of punishing both at once hasn't been raised.

Or the AK was hesitant to make a decision that was the opposite of the voting results. Although at least half of those who voted did so before all the arguments were presented, and some changed their decision during the process.

And so on... there are many options, and I don't know which one worked.

Once again, the AK's opinion did not coincide with the opinion of our guru, hence the conclusion - the AK is worthless.

I am right too often to not trust my opinion or to trust it less than the opinion of others. I've already forgotten when I last made a fundamental mistake regarding Heroes-related issues.

Plus, there is an observation that my opinion correlates well with the opinion of skilled, authoritative, and simply intelligent Heroes players. And it correlates poorly with the opinion of the so-called "bottom" of the Heroes community. Therefore, it's not pleasing when the AK takes a position opposite to mine, because it starts to smell like bottom-of-the-barrel stuff.

I have a holistic understanding of Heroes, Heroes players, and the esports theme in general. I share pieces of this understanding here and there in forum discussions. Those who need it will read it and build their own understanding.

In reply to Wlk777

Piterius

16 years ago

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Wlk777 OELM

...

I can't stop laughing... Guys from the neighborhood... :D
He held on, he held on, but there's just no more strength:D
Seriously, do you really think your arguments are NOT NONSENSE? Are you kidding? What can I prove to you? Look at your avatars! A perfect match between the image and the psychological portrait. Where can any sane thoughts fit in your narrow minds? Two loudmouths, experts of the "neighborhood" level.
And who needs to prove anything to you two personally? Everyone understands that this is a futile endeavor. You're like dogs on a leash, it seems like you were just waiting for Vic to write something so you could immediately start showing off.
Of course, I understand that you are for justice, but you need to be a little more broad-minded and generous.

OELM clearly won the process - he shouted, got upset, incited, provoked, condemned the most - he didn't like anything, everything was wrong... Well done, he influenced the voters. I am more than sure that most of the voters who voted AGAINST didn't really watch anything or analyze it, they REALLY ANALYZED it. "Well, these arguments seem more or less normal, so he's probably not a cheater." Another ridiculous argument about "poses" also had an effect. Personally, I liked it again, good job. The defense generally worked perfectly, because the opinion has already formed that in such situations, you need to be on the side of the player. In principle, this is logical. The further it went, the more the voting took on a friendly character. Someone's exclamation that the accused doesn't have to prove anything - that's a masterpiece!

But the accusation looked weak, or rather, there wasn't one at all. No one accused anyone during the process, didn't you notice, gentlemen? Oh yes, I forgot, you're only concerned with what's right in front of your nose. Well, never mind. But you successfully turned the vote into a mess, into some kind of "neighborhood showdown," there was plenty of dirt.
Your predictions like 7-0 were laughable. Experts have nothing to do:smile54:.

I liked Los's phrase "less than six months have passed." Well, from your team, in general, "give me a bigger rock - I'll throw it, I don't like all this, it irritates me."

The results of the vote are not very encouraging. And I'm not talking about the result, no one set out to "nail" Andrey. We get a lot of bullshit, some speakers showed their true face, which is actually very useful for many in the future. The process itself is not much worse than the Championship of Cheating. The way it unfolded is already a significant drawback for Andrey, as the vote itself shows. Many have drawn conclusions for themselves, so this victory of justice is not a victory at all, but just an intermediate stage in its search. Time will really put everything in its place.

Finally, a selection of quotes "for memory":)

OELM

OO, little cuties)

I haven't looked at the saves, but I am convinced of Andrey's honesty.

OELM

It is unethical to seek the truth by discussing the reputation of other players. If this is normal for someone, then it is not for me. It doesn't matter and it's not interesting!...

OELM

...And this, I'm sure, is a lie from Valentek. I don't believe that Wic could have considered this save suspicious. I emphasize, specifically these saves, and not his personal attitude towards Andrey as a player. If I am wrong, I will publicly apologize on the forum, and in addition, I will not open my mouth again in this topic(I'm serious)...

In reply to Wicc

Wlk777

16 years ago

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Wicc

Also, there's an observation that my opinion correlates well with the opinions of skilled, authoritative, and generally intelligent Heroes players. And it correlates poorly with the opinions of the so-called "dregs" of the Heroes community. That's why I'm not happy when AK takes a position opposite to mine, because it starts to smell like bottom-of-the-barrel opinions.
.

In other words, anyone who doesn't agree with you, the great one, is a fool. Go see a psychiatrist; your delusions of grandeur might still be curable. :)

SEM_56

16 years ago

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The dispute will be settled with a clear game!!!
Vitalik proved that he can play well. Why shouldn't Britva prove it too!!!
Autumn - Kyiv - Welcome)))

In reply to Wicc

Wlk777

16 years ago

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Wicc

I participated as much as I could, managed to write 3 posts, and expressed my point of view there along with arguments. I didn't see any counterarguments, except for some vague babbling.

Your "arguments" are that vague babbling, like "a very negative move," and there's actually nothing to refute. Try to refute, for example, the fact that against 43 angels, Nela with a Cloak of Renunciation and a growth of approximately 17 per week, no parameters can save you, and there was absolutely no point in cheating in this case – if we assume that Britva opened the save file, then we can talk.

Catch

16 years ago

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I've personally drawn my own conclusions. I've mentioned before that, after reviewing his saves (not just save #147), I noticed that Britvachka's gameplay was quite weak. Therefore, such a negative move could be consistent with his overall playstyle. But then, out of curiosity, I looked at his win-loss ratio in seasonal tournaments... You know, one of the arguments against Vitalik was his unrealistically high win rate. But the vast majority of people acknowledge his high skill level. Here, however... for a player of Britvachka's level to have such a win percentage, it would mean that in every game, he gets incredibly favorable conditions, while his opponents get the short end of the stick. That's what we should be thinking about.

In reply to Catch

Wlk777

16 years ago

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Catch

You know, one of the arguments against Vitalik was the unrealistic win-loss ratio. But the vast majority of people acknowledge his high skill. Here, for a player like Britva to have such a win rate, he must be getting incredibly favorable conditions in every game, while his opponents are getting the short end of the stick. That's what we should be thinking about. :)

Andrey's win rate is much lower than Vitalik's. That's the first thing. Second, Britva is far from a weak player, as many seem to think. Look at his reports; he often has 2-3 heroes around level 20 (and not just freed, but leveled up on the "second front" - this is rare). Third, I've played about 15 games against him, won about 3 times, and lost another 3-4 simply due to overconfidence. I can say that he is a very tenacious player, plays focused and persistently, and knows how to get out of seemingly lost games by exploiting his opponent's complacency, who is confident that victory is already in the bag. Finally, I think many of those who voted for him in the poll have played at least a few games with him, while those who voted against him probably played one or none. Andrey never refuses to use autosave (unlike Vitalik), which casts serious doubt on the arguments of Vikko-like comrades that winning at any cost is his main goal.

Added 5 minutes later

Piterius

I can't stop laughing... Guys from the neighborhood...:D
He held on, he held on, but there's just no more strength:D
Seriously, do you really think your arguments are NOT NONSENSE? Are you kidding me? What can I prove to you? Look at your avatars! A perfect match between the picture and the psychological portrait. Where can any sane thoughts fit in your narrow minds?

Haha, now the avatars are being used, that was to be expected, a powerful argument :D But it doesn't quite add up - then Vikko is a blonde :D :D :D