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Offline Wicc
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#1281
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No, it's not that hard to teach the AI; perhaps just to determine the direction to run in the dark. But if the map is open to it, the AI isn't particularly complex. It's much simpler than in chess.

There aren't an infinite number of options. It's quite finite.
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Offline Дубровин Павел
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#1282
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That's good, but it won't happen that once Kompa learns how to play, the meaning of the game will change, and instead of competing against each other, both Heroes players will team up to play against Kompa.
С истиной где-то рядом...





Лето 2010.
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Offline Dirty_Player
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#1283
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Wicc
It's much simpler than chess.
You can train a computer to act autonomously, following a specific pattern. It will never be able to adapt to a person or navigate due to constant changes. Or, let it think for an hour :D
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Offline Kash
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#1284
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megahet (14:46:20 25/12/2009)
The rules state that the Grail cannot be unearthed before the 5th week. But if I dig it up but don't place it, is that allowed? Is it possible? Or should I only start digging after 5 weeks?

Kash (14:49:01 25/12/2009)
You should only start digging after 5 weeks.

megahet (14:49:53 25/12/2009)
Damn... everyone says something different. Thanks.

Kash (14:51:39 25/12/2009)
Well, if you follow the rules literally, then you can't dig.

Kash (14:53:22 25/12/2009)
And why do you need the Grail? =)

megahet (14:54:22 25/12/2009)
I'm just good at finding Grails. I dig them up quickly. )

megahet (14:58:29 25/12/2009)
The creators didn't express the rules clearly...

Kash (14:59:05 25/12/2009)
But if you dig, you risk unearthing it, right? =)

megahet (14:59:11 25/12/2009)
It should have said - you can't place it after the 5th week, but you can dig it up from day one.

...

megahet (19:36:06 26/12/2009)
Do you remember the argument about the Grail?

Kash (19:36:11 26/12/2009)
Yes.

megahet (19:36:42 26/12/2009)
I dug it up on the 4th week, 2 days before the 5th.

megahet (19:36:54 26/12/2009)
But I placed it on the 5th.

Kash (19:38:17 26/12/2009)
If you follow the rules literally, then you can't. I told you that.

megahet (19:38:54 26/12/2009)
And now, look at this...

megahet (19:39:16 26/12/2009)
It says - YOU CAN'T UNEARTH IT.

megahet (19:39:24 26/12/2009)
Where is the ban on digging it up?

Kash (19:39:37 26/12/2009)
But if you dig randomly, you risk UNEARTHING it =)

megahet (19:40:08 26/12/2009)
Then it should have been forbidden to dig at all... but there is no such ban.

megahet (19:40:18 26/12/2009)
So I can dig...

Kash (19:40:28 26/12/2009)
But you can't unearth it!

Kash (19:40:37 26/12/2009)
So you can't dig either.

megahet (19:40:55 26/12/2009)
There is no such ban in the rules.

megahet (19:41:14 26/12/2009)
The ban is only on unearthing it - that is, with the intention of placing it.

megahet (19:44:37 26/12/2009)
I will create a topic on the forum - let them vote, who is for allowing digging up to the 5th week, and who is against. Only placing it after the 5th week.

megahet (19:44:59 26/12/2009)
Let's see how many are for and against.

Kash (19:45:09 26/12/2009)
I can just write on the forum that digging is not allowed =), no need for a vote.

megahet (19:45:53 26/12/2009)
Then you will resolve all the questions - change the rule, write - DIGGING, DIGGING RANDOMLY - IS NOT ALLOWED.

Kash (19:46:34 26/12/2009)
I can't change the rules, I think it's all clear there..

Kash (19:46:50 26/12/2009)
It's not allowed to unearth - which means it's not allowed to dig.

megahet (19:49:21 26/12/2009)
Because "Unearth" implies - to get, to dig up successfully... But nothing is said about digging (randomly). Not everyone will understand correctly - if there is at least one person like me.

Kash (19:49:46 26/12/2009)
I'm writing it to you for the third time:
What's the point of digging and NOT UNEARTHING?

megahet (19:49:54 26/12/2009)
Change one line - is that so hard for you?

Kash (19:50:02 26/12/2009)
You dig - which means you risk unearthing, i.e., violating the rules.

megahet (19:50:34 26/12/2009)
The meaning is big - I exclude all unproductive points (where there is no Grail).

Kash (19:50:40 26/12/2009)
It's not hard for me, it's just impossible. It's like asking the governor of California to change a line in the Constitution of the Russian Federation.

megahet (19:51:19 26/12/2009)
Can you add clarifications regarding the Grail?

Kash (19:51:40 26/12/2009)
I can explain it in another topic, for example, in a round table.

megahet (19:51:58 26/12/2009)
There is so much said about all the prohibitions - but about the Grail - only one line. Explaining such a trick as the Grail in one line is difficult.

Kash (19:52:40 26/12/2009)
For some reason, there were no questions before =) Okay, I'll post in the Round Table now.

megahet (19:53:09 26/12/2009)
Let me remain insignificant... with my interests - but in the future, this will eliminate many questions.

megahet (19:53:54 26/12/2009)
Tell me, how did someone like me appear and start arguing? This means that the law is written and formulated unclearly!!!

megahet (19:54:06 26/12/2009)
Clarifications are needed!

Kash (19:54:37 26/12/2009)
But I'm already formulating it for you, and you're still arguing.

megahet (19:54:48 26/12/2009)
Thank you for your attention - I hope there will be a solution. I'm going to clear the pike.

Kash (19:54:55 26/12/2009)
Okay, good luck.

To protect myself from similar harassment in the future, I'm writing this here:

Digging up and digging for the Grail is not allowed before the fifth week according to the current rules (imho). Maybe I'm interpreting it wrong? Who convinced the guy otherwise? He's going to have a breakdown on me...
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Offline Wlk777
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#1285
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I don't care about the Grail. I give all my opponents permission to dig for it and build it whenever they want. Because without cheats, it's almost impossible to find. IMHO.
Всем удачи ! И Морали !
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Offline Дубровин Павел
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#1286
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Regarding the Grail. According to the rules, it is forbidden to dig it up before 6 weeks, i.e., to retrieve the Grail from the ground. The player acts as a minesweeper here; if the Grail is dug up before 6 weeks, they may be given a technical defeat. Of course, they are not prohibited from attempting to dig it up, but one wrong move that leads to the Grail being dug up before 6 weeks means game over. I interpret the rules this way.
С истиной где-то рядом...





Лето 2010.
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Offline Wlk777
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#1287
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Dubrovin Pavel
That's good, but it won't happen that once they teach the AI to play, the meaning of the game will change, and both players will no longer compete against each other, but instead team up against the AI.
Actually, I meant the possibility of practicing against a strong opponent when there is no opportunity to play against a human. Personally, I think that it is possible to train the AI to play much better than it does now (perhaps weaker than the strongest players, but still strong), but it will require a lot of work, although it might be worth it. IMHO.
Всем удачи ! И Морали !
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Offline Сатир
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#1288
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Kash
.....
:smile52:
This dialogue is worthy of being published in a book and recorded in the annals of history (I don't know Russian very well, so if it sounds inappropriate, I apologize :D).
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Offline Wicc
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#1289
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- Is it possible to place the Grail in the Conflux?

- It is forbidden to place the Grail in the Conflux.

- And is the following situation allowed? We dig up the Grail. We give it to the Conflux computer. The computer places the Grail. We kill it and get the Conflux with the Grail.

- The Grail cannot be transferred to other heroes; when you lose a battle, it does not drop as an artifact but disappears.

- Well, you can force the computer to dig up the Grail and place it in the Conflux. Or you can use the useful button "leave artifact." For example, take and leave the Grail in front of the enemy's castle.

- Guys, let's not come up with ways to trick the system and still place the Grail in this unfortunate castle. Just don't place it, and that's it; don't use the bonuses that result from it, etc.
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Offline scorp
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#1290
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Wlk777
I don't care about the Grail. I allow all my opponents to dig for it and build it whenever they want. Because without cheats, it's almost impossible to find. IMHO.

I never even thought about such an item in any game, nor did I ever plan to build it. But recently, on map 112, I visited one obelisk and already suspected that the Grail was on my map. On map 113, I was already convinced of this, and on map 114, the hero missed by one square ;)

P.S.: I visited only 2 obelisks.
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Offline bRitvo4kA
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#1291
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megahet
(14:54:22 25/12/2009)
I'm just an expert at digging up Grails. I dig them up quickly.
With an excavator :smile47: or how? Share the secret.

Because in my online experience, I haven't managed to dig up a Grail yet. That's why I don't even visit obelisks on purpose; it annoys me how long it takes for the map-puzzle to open, wasting a turn. Only if it's the shortest route. However, someone once dug one up against me (Kluka), and it helped him win.
В дикім полі
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Offline Alessandro
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#1292
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When I started playing online, I would agree with my opponent that the Grail could be dug up on any day, and opponents almost always agreed. But following those rules, I never actually dug it up once.
Then Captain told me that for a cheater, knowing where the Grail is located on 111 is not a problem. And I stopped insisting on this rule.
In online play, I once dug it up on 221 on the first attempt (the Grail was underground near my dungeon capital).
In "bespredel" mode, I wanted to dig it up, but didn't even get any hints; I never dug it up once.
There was a case where, after reviewing saves, I refused to confirm defeat because the opponent started digging before 221. I told the opponent—and he decided not to file a report.
IMHO. I believe digging and uncovering should be allowed, but placing it in the Castle should happen no earlier than 221:
1) Games rarely reach 221
2) When building chains, digging with 4 heroes in one spot is problematic. Although it's possible if you have TP and DD and a huge amount of mana.
P.S. Naturally, I am against cheating methods for uncovering.
Discord  5884
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Offline Loi
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#1294
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1. Megahert is right; the rules must clearly define the situation. Therefore, the rule needs to be clarified to avoid different interpretations (or, yes, provide an explanation...).
2. My version of the rule's essence: start searching from the very first day (regarding disabling with an obelisk – I'm more against it; it's not worth immediately cutting and impoverishing the strategies...). It can be placed from a specific time ("X," for example, from the first day of the sixth week, i.e., from day 221 – I don't know exactly; this can be varied...). Let a scout run around with it, hiding in a corner, trembling, waiting for that hour – and maybe, by the way, the opponent figures this out and, being red, manages his turn 217 so that exactly on day 221, when it arrives, he can hit this treasure hunter and grab the Artifact... isn't that a game plot...?
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Offline Дубровин Павел
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#1295
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Misha (Scorp) previously wrote that on level 114, he could dig up the Grail. The Grail represents a specific bonus, and one player can benefit from this bonus (for example, by randomly visiting an Obelisk, which will reveal the coveted Cross), while another player may not have that opportunity. On the other hand, in my experience and in the experience of my opponent, the Grail has never been dug up. Perhaps we should make changes to the Rules and prohibit digging up this unfortunate Grail? Or, instead of "Digging up," we could change the Rules to "Placing."
С истиной где-то рядом...





Лето 2010.
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