Which faction poses the greatest challenge for the Dwarves? — Fortress

Ereb

11/5/2009 5:56 PM UTC

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Wow, those priests under Sar-Issa are really accurate, dealing insane fire damage... Who are you planning to use to take down 7 Black Dragons if it's not a Deidra and you don't have any artifacts that reduce attack? Maybe just rely on luck?? With Sorrow?? While you're trying to figure it out, we'll remove your spells with a rune or dispel them!!
There's always a problem with artifacts; it depends on who gets lucky... or who has the better skills:)...
I think someone mentioned that Necropolis is strong if it has several castles, but in a one-on-one battle with just one castle each, Necropolis is screwed...
I remember a battle where a friend took armies from two cities, turned everyone into zombies and skeletons, and I took an army from one Dwarf castle... he won, ending up with 169 zombies, casting Heavenly Shield on them; there were almost a thousand of them. I was resurrecting Guardians, 200 at a time, but I still lost....
The result is clear to everyone!!!

За кланы! За кровь!

In reply to Ereb

Rift

11/5/2009 6:08 PM UTC

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Ereb

....eternal light weakens the power of darkness by 50%. What skill from the darkness can counter this?

Eternal light doesn't weaken anything; it's just wishful thinking. Light spells are harder to dispel – that's true. Darkness can fail to overlay an opposing light with a 50% chance – that's the point of Eternal Light, but it might also succeed. Moreover, high-level control spells aren't blocked by this, and dissipation also works well, and this perk doesn't affect Unholy Word – that's how it is:cool:

Ereb

11/5/2009 6:58 PM UTC

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However, Helmar can also cast two mass spells in one turn – that’s impressive... high-level spells are specifically designed to be countered by the existing Antimagic spell... in my opinion, it’s not very advantageous for Necropolis to use it, so I get annoyed when I see it in a guild. It’s less useful than Subjugation and Berserk! + Vampirism... In Haven, there’s also Divine Retribution, which is also good... it’s unpleasant for those who aren’t under Vampirism if you’ve killed a lot of them.

За кланы! За кровь!

Крестьянин-ZOMBIE

11/6/2009 2:38 PM UTC

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You need to get 7 Battle Dwarves, but what's the point if only 2 will remain? It's easy to remove the "Unlucky" curse (must use), Death Cape + Staff of the Underworld + Shout. Priests under Sar-Iss? What's that compared to Armageddon! Ice Shield + Raise Dead + Reflection = the priests won't be able to do anything against a single Fireball. Berserk + Vampirism with Subjugation against Dwarves is not our best choice; they're too tough, so it won't be very effective. But you can remove a lot with Plague, and Unlucky is just what you need. I was just playing with Demons, and the Necropolis faction got fat as always. The only thing that annoys me is that damn tower with reinforcements (probably some Gnome developer came up with it), but there's a clever trick to counter it: the main thing is to kill everyone except those Gnomes, then run away, and with the second hero, capture the clean Castle.
By the way, does anyone have a good strategy for Demons?

Added 10 minutes later

Mish-gan

I agree with your post.
No offense to Necropolis fans, but I want to point out that Necropolis is only strong if it has more than two Castles!

I still believe that Gnomes should especially fear Orcs!

Orcs, in my opinion, are not feared by anyone at all. Even Gnomes.:smile18:

Эх, опять идти за сигаретами... :smile34:

Ereb

11/6/2009 7:39 PM UTC

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It's not difficult to get 7 Battle Discipline (BD): artificial leadership and runic harmony... and the Lion's Collar is easy to find... But finding a +2 horseshoe and a ring with -2 is more challenging... That's what I realized here: there's no point in guessing what artifacts will be, because everything becomes clear when you're already playing. Otherwise, it's useless... You buy whatever drops on the map or in the shops:):):)
You were talking about liches under Sar-Issa, and I was reminding you about priests... Armageddon is always clear, but when 5 fireballs fly instead of two, that's too much. And what skills will you take if you don't know exactly how the dwarf will develop? What if he goes into light, and you took magic resistance?... I once pulled off something like that... A friend was playing as an Orc, and I was playing as Erling (we played until level 23-25). He knew that I was focusing on magic, so he pumped up Chaos Shield, and I switched to light with Secrets... So, my priests were casting spells pretty well even without the Sar-Issa regalia... The same can happen with a necromancer...
The main thing is to have a rough idea of where the enemy might develop:
NECROMANCER - two paths of development:
darkness and summoning...
Darkness is still preferable because: Kaspar and Vlad are the best choice for summoning, and the others go into darkness... The same with the dwarf: light and chaos... However, in my opinion, the dwarf handles the absence of light or chaos better!!
High Toughness is also a great thing, but don't forget about the Christian Zombie. Dwarves also have runes...

За кланы! За кровь!

Крестьянин-ZOMBIE

11/6/2009 7:49 PM UTC

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I only have 1 standard hero - Naadir, and he levels up in a standard way: 1. Darkness 2. Summoning with Mines 3. Leadership or Defense, if the previous skill doesn't work out 4. Education 5. Sorcery At level 23-25, IMO, this is already quite good; the Necropolis army will be so strong that 5 Fireballs won't save you. Against the Necropolis, the Dwarf will definitely be useful. Runes don't seem to remove the Plague effect.

Эх, опять идти за сигаретами... :smile34:

Ereb

11/7/2009 11:06 AM UTC

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I don't quite understand how you manage magic at the start; it's a bit difficult with only two magic skills – Darkness and Summoning... and you only get Enchantment on the 5th skill. It's better to take Enchantment earlier: Darkness + Enchantment + Summoning, and then Education.

За кланы! За кровь!

In reply to Крестьянин-ZOMBIE

Mish-gan

11/7/2009 4:01 PM UTC

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Peasant-ZOMBIE

I only have 1 standard hero - Naadir is being developed in a standard way:
1. Darkness
2. Summoning with mines
3. Leadership or defense, if things don't work out
4. Education
5. Wizardry
23-25 lvl IMHO, this is already decent, the Necromancer will have such an army that 5 fireballs won't save you. Against the Necromancer, the Dwarf will definitely shine. Runes don't seem to remove plagues.

It seems you've been playing on the computer too much (no offense)!
I have a lot of experience playing as Dwarves against Necromancers and against quite strong opponents, here is my classic build against the Necromancer, whether he has Darkness or Summoning, and considering that he has two castles:
Helmar (up to level 25) Perfect Knowledge of Runes, Greatest Rune
1. Constant Luck: soldier's luck, magic resistance, dwarven luck (let's see what percentage of your spells will be able to affect my units - check it and you will be very upset, I guarantee it);
2. Skilled Light Magic: righteous wrath, storm wind (try to fly); you can take blessing instead of one leadership;
3. Skilled Leadership: runic harmony (if there is no retaliation, we may not take it);
4. Skilled Defense, but if there is a resurrection rune, then evasion and damage reduction;
5. Skilled Attack: tactics, attacking hirdu, retaliation, but if there is a resurrection rune, then the build is like in point 4;

Try playing at least once against someone who knows how to play as Dwarves, and you will understand that in reality, the Necromancer has no chance, no matter how you develop!

P.S.: Runes remove any spell!

valery

11/7/2009 5:34 PM UTC

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It's impossible for one race to always lose to another without a chance, and the game isn't made in just 5 minutes. As for the Necropolis race, it's very dangerous for the Fortress, because of its fast start, and you simply won't have time to level up to 25 before the enemy arrives (if the map isn't too large). For the Fortress, it's desirable to quickly find machines or chaos creatures.

Клан "ХРАНИТЕЛИ НЕБЕСНЫХ ВРАТ"

Рейтинг: Лучник

In reply to valery

Мститель

11/7/2009 7:25 PM UTC

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valery

It never happens that one race has no chance of losing to another; the game wasn't made to be won in 5 minutes.

I really like this approach!
You can always find some kind of solution, and you need to look for ways.
At the beginning of my game, I used to complain a lot about the Necromancer's overpoweredness (how could I keep losing, while they only gain?).
Now, of course, it's funny to remember, but it's worth noting that under certain conditions, the creature conversion to undead makes Necromancers very dangerous opponents. On the other hand, the Dwarf build suggested by Mish-gan is very strong and logical.
For Necromancers, I would advise focusing on luck – soldier's luck – and recruiting Vampire Princes and Skeleton Warriors into the army. In my experience, undead with luck always looked more convincing than undead without luck.

However, with only one castle each for both Necromancers, in my opinion, it's harder to win on a long map; runes can sometimes be devastating.

In reply to Ereb

Крестьянин-ZOMBIE

11/7/2009 8:41 PM UTC

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Ereb

I just don't understand how you cast spells at the beginning; it's quite difficult with only two magic skills – Darkness and Summoning... and you only get Wizardry on the 5th skill. It's better to take Wizardry earlier: Darkness + Wizardry + Summoning, and then Education...

On the contrary, Wizardry can wait; the main thing is to develop your spells first, especially Darkness, as well as Summoning for fire traps. Also, try to capture abandoned mines. Then you need to focus on Education (especially for mentoring). And you can take Wizardry later.

Added 3 minutes ago

Mish-gan

It seems you've been playing against the computer too much (no offense)!
I have a lot of experience playing as Dwarves against Necromancers and against quite strong opponents. Here's my classic build against Necromancers, whether they use Darkness or Summoning, and considering that they have two Castles:
Try playing with someone who knows how to play Dwarves, and you'll see that Necromancers really don't stand a chance, no matter how you develop your skills!
P.S.: Runes remove any spell!

Well, firstly, not any, that's one thing. I haven't been playing against the computer too much – I'm online on Heroes almost every evening (although I rarely finish a game). Are you saying that Necromancers have 2 Castles, and Dwarves have 1? I don't believe that; you must have been playing against some noobs.

Added 6 minutes ago

Avenger

For Necromancers, I would advise focusing on Luck and Soldier's Luck and recruiting Vampire Lords and Skeleton Warriors into your army. In my experience, undead with Luck always look more convincing than undead without Luck.

Your "advice" for Necromancers is better not to read at all. Who needs this infantry with 6 health, which dies in a couple of hits, and Soldier's Luck, which is useless for Vampire Lords? I don't recommend taking Luck for Necromancers at all – you'll just waste a slot; it's better to find artifacts.

Эх, опять идти за сигаретами... :smile34:

In reply to Rift

KGB

11/8/2009 4:59 AM UTC

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Rift

It was even written in the manual; you just blurted out unverified information, and no one even objected, as if it were true!
Did it offend you? Only Hamachi will work; you can't use it on Ubisoft.

Let's play on Hamachi. I just downloaded it today. If you want to play as Gnomes (I'll play as Necromancers), send me a private message, and I'll tell you how to log in with me.

In reply to Крестьянин-ZOMBIE

Мститель

11/8/2009 6:18 AM UTC

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Peasant-ZOMBIE

Added 6 minutes ago
[/U]You'd be better off not reading your "advice" about Necromancers. Who needs this infantry with 6 health, which dies in a couple of hits, and Soldier's Luck, which is useless for Princes? I don't recommend taking Luck for Necromancers at all – you'll just waste a skill slot; it's better to choose some artifact.

I disagree with you. But I'm not writing this for you or to argue with you (I don't see the point), but for those who don't consider my advice useless.

Soldier's Luck increases the chance of Vampire Princes stunning enemies (they, like lords, often attack without receiving a counterattack, and their stats are higher) and the chance of Skeleton Warriors stunning enemies. Skeleton Warriors are, of course, destroyed quickly (in your hands, Peasant-Zombie), but you don't have to put them in harm's way. And even if there are few of them left, they can significantly help with their stunning ability.
The fact that Luck is taken as a skill allows you to put some other useful artifact on the Luck artifact slot. So the argument about wasting a slot is simply absurd. Luck will not be superfluous for any race.

In reply to Крестьянин-ZOMBIE

Mish-gan

11/8/2009 7:03 AM UTC

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Added 3 minutes later
[/U]
Well, firstly, not just any, that's one thing. I haven't been playing too much on the computer – I spend almost every evening on Heroes (though I rarely finish a game). Are you saying that the Necropolis has 2 castles, while the Fortress has only 1? I don't believe that; you must have been playing with some noobs.

You probably forgot that any other castle is like home for the Necromancer; you're disappointing me with your "Dark Prince" logic.

In reply to Mish-gan

Крестьянин-ZOMBIE

11/8/2009 11:46 AM UTC

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Mish-gan

You probably forgot that for a Necromancer, any other Castle is like home; your logic in "Prince of Darkness" disappoints me. :D

What are you even talking about? You need to format your posts properly. :smile29:

Added 2 minutes later

Avenger

Soldier's Luck increases the chance of stunning by Vampire Princes (they, like Lords, often attack without retaliation, and the Princes' stats are higher) and the chance of stunning by Skeleton Warriors. Skeleton Warriors are, of course, quickly destroyed (in your hands, peasant zombie), but you don't have to put them in harm's way. And even if there are few of them left, they can significantly help with their stunning ability.
The fact that Luck is taken as a skill will allow you to put some other useful artifact on the Luck slot instead of an artifact for Luck. So the argument about losing a slot is simply absurd. Luck will not be superfluous for any race.

It doesn't increase anything for Vampires – it has already been proven somewhere. And don't take Luck for anything – 2% drop rate, and what are you supposed to put in your pocket?

Эх, опять идти за сигаретами... :smile34: