Orcs – discussion about the race. — Stronghold

Мститель

10/20/2009 9:13 AM UTC

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The Amulet of Skill increases the rate at which rage builds up. Something like one and a half times, or thereabouts. If your friend only plays Winghelm, you can believe me that he will lose very quickly with any other hero. He's just too easy to play with. Regarding Shackarukath – of course, the wyverns are significantly strengthened. There's no arguing that. It's just that if they were given the usual + to defense and attack, Shackarukath would be stronger than he is now. It's just that, in my opinion, compared to Tilshek, Haggeesh, and Krag, he's a little weaker. On the other hand, maybe specializing in a level 6 unit is too powerful, and that's how everything is balanced. Well, good luck in the battle of the century! To be honest, as a fan of playing as the High Elves... I can tell you the best build for Winghelm against Orcs (in case it helps you prepare better for the battle?). Skillful Attack - Tactics, Archery Skillful Leadership - Troop Gathering, Speed Aura, Forest Leader Skillful Luck - up to Elven Luck Skillful Light - Righteous Strike It's all aimed at making the first strike as effective as possible (attack, leadership, luck, + Winghelm makes a general speed boost with his very first move, and it all repeats).

In reply to Мститель

Mish-gan

10/20/2009 12:02 PM UTC

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I hope he doesn't see your post! :mad:

In reply to Mish-gan

Ингвар Высокий

10/20/2009 4:17 PM UTC

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Still, something tells me that your opponent was just unlucky (forgive me, but Warlock is a very strong hero :eek:! I've only recently started playing with the Stronghold faction, and I don't really like them... Their racial ability is just :mad:, and they suffer a lot of losses at the start...) Well, never mind. The point is, an Orc doesn't excel in magic or initiative, and they were also nerfed in version 3.1, so it turns out that you can't beat Warlock with them anymore. I've beaten Warlock against the computer, and I've also had 3 online battles (won twice, lost once), and I can honestly say that the best way to fight against the Stronghold is with magic users:)

In reply to Ингвар Высокий

Mish-gan

10/21/2009 6:53 AM UTC

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We are playing version 3.0. I'm lucky that not all of his units reach me on the first turn! BUT if he reads Avenger's post, I'm doomed, no question about it. The thing is, if he takes Tactics, Aura of Swiftness, and Boots of Swiftness, then I might as well call a funeral home! :( Orcs just need to make the first attack, and then we'll see who wins!:smile10:

In reply to Mish-gan

KGB

10/23/2009 6:23 PM UTC

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Mish-gan

We're playing version 3.0.

I'm lucky that not all of his units reach me on the first turn! BUT if he reads Avenger's post, I'm doomed, no question about it. The thing is, if he takes Tactics, Aura of Speed + Boots of Speed = "I can start looking for a funeral home"!:(

The main thing for the Orcs is to make the first attack, and then we'll see who wins!:smile10:

If you're playing on a large map, I can tell you how to develop a good Orc... :smile20: But you'll need a high level...

And the hero should be "pure," meaning without unnecessary skills...
You take Haggle.
You level up Skilled Logistics (pathfinding).
Skilled Leadership - Rallying Cry + Remembrance of Our Blood will give you - Battle Frenzy, Aura of Speed.
Skilled Offense - Tactics - Battle Fury - Retribution (Battle Frenzy is required for Retribution).
Skilled Defense - Here, the choice is twofold. You can take Resistance - Protect Us All - Preparedness (appears when Tactics is chosen in Offense), or you can not take Preparedness and take Dodge, which is also good against Elves...
Higher Education - Fire Fury and Endurance.
Of the artifacts, it's definitely desirable to find a Ring of Speed, which can also help, and Boots of Speed, a cheap artifact that is often found - with it, the Chieftains or Executioners can reach any unit in one turn. Tactics will block Wingael's tactics... You can try to find assembled Dwarf artifacts for the Orcs (Stone Skin and Dodge at the start of the battle) or Lionheart.
For the Cyclops, several assembled Dragon artifacts would be good.
Dragon Ring - Dragon's Breath, Dragon Shield, etc.

Added 9 minutes later
By the way, if you find a Unicorn Horn Bow, the Cyclops will have a great time; they will shoot at enemy archers without penalty - they won't like that very much!

In reply to KGB

Mish-gan

10/25/2009 4:58 PM UTC

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Thank you, I'll try it! I always thought that developing to the maximum level was the best option for the Orc in a battle with Wingael!

Мститель

10/26/2009 4:14 AM UTC

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Education – fuels the fire of rage, a questionable skill.
Defense – readiness as well (how are Orcs supposed to use defense? It drains their rage).

In reply to Мститель

KGB

10/26/2009 2:40 PM UTC

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Avenger

Education - a questionable skill, as it fuels the fire of rage.
Defense - readiness is also questionable (how do Orcs even use the defense skill? It drains their rage).

If there are multiple Orc castles, it's not a problem...
Regarding defense, Battle Frenzy fixes this... If an Orc is set to defend, they will lose 50 units of rage during an attack but gain (if Battle Spirit triggers, they gain 75 units). And Battle Spirit (3 skills give +1 for having only Orcs in the army, +1 to 6 from artifacts) triggers in 90% of cases, as I have verified...

In reply to KGB

KGB

11/1/2009 7:01 PM UTC

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I forgot to give a detailed answer regarding Rage... The Rage enchantment is needed to gain Rage points faster... But it only works effectively with the Battle Frenzy skill (bonus is higher), and Rage Surge spells give more of these Rage points.
The fact that it loses more is not critical for the Orc; the main thing is to gain Rage quickly, not to lose it quickly. They can be knocked out of Rage, but with the Rage enchantment, even Paladins will gain a lot of Rage points plus 75 Battle Frenzy and Blood Memory, and a bunch of skulls from 150 to 200, meaning that without any super abilities, after an attack, a Paladin will have the second or even third level of Rage, and with an upgraded defense, how much will the unit that retaliated take? Even if it's a level 7 creature, I'm willing to bet it won't be more than 5% of the squad, while the Paladins will take down up to 50% (depending on the creature's defense).
Let's calculate: the highest attack is with the Orcs, plus Retribution (25% additional damage). How will the Paladin hit?
And this is just one Paladin... And I haven't even taken into account the bonuses from Rage levels.

Мститель

11/2/2009 4:47 AM UTC

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KGB, you might be right, but I'll clarify that, in my opinion, it's not worth taking the "Wrath of Fire" spell against races with initiative bonuses (demons, dark elves, and high elves).

In reply to Мститель

KGB

11/2/2009 8:58 PM UTC

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Avenger

KGB, you might be right, but I'll clarify that, in my opinion, it's not worth taking Wrath of the Gods against initiative-based factions (demons, dark elves, and high elves).

If you're sure they'll move faster... But this is only really noticeable with Winghelm; it's not as obvious with others... The main thing, of course, is to give the Orcs more morale and initiative; rings, dragon artifacts... If they move first, they'll essentially win...

Ereb

11/5/2009 6:51 PM UTC

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Against some well-fortified factions, both in defense and attack, such as Haven, it might not work either. Their defense is high, they have dark magic, and their attack and defense are at their maximum. I think it's worth taking armored units against highly initiative-based knights... and an orc is unlikely to withstand such dark forces, and its own initiative will turn against it through berserk and mind control... it's not a given that if they reach first, they will win. Haven plays best with counterattacks...
Regarding the "Fury" skill, I probably agree with Avenger:
LE: horses and druids can effectively reduce fury, and blades are also effective... although...
TE: I'm not sure, but if their initiative is higher than that of the knights, then harpies might kill someone...
INFERNO: it's unlikely that you should be afraid of Inferno. An orc in 80% of cases will defeat a demon, unless it's a demon with dark magic and artificial gates + luck -> Nimues, etc.

За кланы! За кровь!

TerMinator

11/12/2009 3:10 PM UTC

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KGB and everyone else, don't use "Fury of the Fire," as it has a major bug! First, if you attack with the same executioner, you'll gain 300 fury points for two attacks, but you'll end up in the negative because you'll take 150 or more damage per attack, and the damage you deal in return depends on the damage you inflict! So, you'll always lose! As for the bug, without "Fury of the Fire," fury doesn't go into the negative, but with it, it can drop you by 1500, depending on the damage (for example, 300 trained cavalry). You'll then have a hard time getting it back to zero!:D. This has been tested 100%, it's just a flaw, because the novice should bring benefits, not harm! By the way, the developers didn't think it through; it should simply increase fury points by 1.5 times, but without any negative consequences! Then it would be more appropriate!!!! Guys, if you don't believe me, you can easily check it yourself!

antonag07

11/12/2009 5:38 PM UTC

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It has been tested for a long time – Fury decreases damage even without “Wrath of Fire”. As for this ability, I personally consider it the most important in the “Education” skill tree.

In reply to TerMinator

JackFromShadowLand

11/12/2009 11:35 PM UTC

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TerMinator

KGB and everyone else, don't use "Wrath of Fury," as it has a major bug! First, if you attack with the same executioner, you'll gain 300 wrath points for two attacks, but you'll end up in the negative because you'll take 150 or more damage per attack, and the damage you deal in return depends on the damage you inflict! So, you'll always lose! As for the bug, without "Wrath of Fury," wrath doesn't go into the negative, but with it, it can drop you by 1500, depending on the damage (for example, 300 trained cavalry). You'll then have a hard time getting it back to zero!:D. This has been tested 100%, it's just a flaw, because the novice should be beneficial, not harmful! By the way, the developers didn't think it through; it should simply increase wrath points by 1.5 times, but without any negative consequences! Then it would make sense!!!! Guys, if you don't believe me, you can easily test it yourself!

Strike first, Freddy!

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