Fantasy vs. Science Fiction — Books

In reply to Happy Life

Wistrit

16 years ago

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Its scales are not even as thick as a finger, but smaller.

?

And if it were as thick as a finger, it would still be organic scales that could withstand no more than... a pebble.

Where did you get this information?

And since it's ancient, even a child could remove or pierce it with magic.

WTF???

WhiteLizard

16 years ago

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Who protects it? And why? Besides, if it's ancient, even a child could dispel or break the magic.

No, it's ancient because it's passed down from generation to generation; Vissi will confirm it.

Arandor

16 years ago

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I was watching The Ring of the Nibelung, where a guy killed a dragon, washed in its blood, and became invulnerable.
The movie wasn't that great, but I really liked the Northern princess. Also, the king's brother is cool, he walks around with a falcon.

kcfgogbfalgfl

16 years ago

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And did he happen to bathe in excrement?

In reply to kcfgogbfalgfl

Wistrit

16 years ago

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The Ring of the Nibelungs is a great movie, by the way. But let's get back to the topic...

Did he happen to bathe in excrement?

Only in his own, because he killed the dragon only with a powerful weapon.

eXeCuToR

16 years ago

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Don't touch Zhelyazny! If you really liked Amber, but don't like his other works, it only means one thing – you have terrible taste. The later books in the Amber series were written solely to make money; Roger himself didn't want to write anything anymore, and everything was just made up. You certainly haven't read "A Night in October," have you? Read it, and then you can discuss how awful he is as a writer and what his style is like.
Gentlemen, aren't you tired of arguing about what will pierce a dragon's scales and what won't? You've been arguing about this for years, and you've already admitted that the argument is pointless and stupid, right? Or is there some kind of fan interest in this?

Amko

16 years ago

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I think that it is possible to pierce the scales with a laser.

Nagan-4

16 years ago

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Don't touch Zelazny! If you liked Amber completely, but not his other works, it only means one thing – you have terrible taste. The later books in the Amber series were written only to make money; Roger himself didn't want to write anything anymore, and it's all made up. You definitely haven't read "Night in a Lonely October," have you? Read it, and then you can discuss how terrible a writer he is and what his style is like.

2 eXeCuToR.
Hey, good job! You wrote it clearly and concisely. Indeed, with the exception of the first part, which brought fame to the "Chronicles of Amber," the other parts of the chronicles, although interesting, are closer to pop literature. In my opinion, Zelazny's best works are...

1. "Lord of Light." An incredible book with many vivid characters exquisitely destroying each other. The highest level of description of duels, even not so much combat as verbal ones. And an unexpected story about the world.
2. "Jack of Shadows." From rags to riches, again, the writing style is excellent.
3. "The Island of the Dead." A trap for an oligarch. A tough mental fight. A lot of strong personalities in a small space; you understand it's a fairy tale, but you can't tear yourself away from the book until the end.
4. "This Immortal." I couldn't believe it was Zelazny. Beautifully written.
5. "Night in a Lonely October." As far as I remember, Zelazny wrote this at the end of his career. It's a little sad, but very interesting. It might be his best book; he wrote it with so much soul.
6. "To Die in Italbar," "Creatures of Light and Darkness," "Dilvish the Damned" – I just like these books; it's a matter of personal preference.

I read the Chronicles of Amber in one go – I don't remember how many books there were – 5 or 4? Then I started looking for other Zelazny books (you know, when you read something, you like it, and you want to read more by that author). But nothing else I read by him was good. It felt like different people wrote them. Or am I missing something?

I tried reading Zelazny – it turned out to be complete nonsense; I don't remember what. It's a parody of fantasy, and not a funny one. It seems like that's his style...

Unfortunately. First, Zelazny is very dependent on the translator; it's not like translating 225 Conan books in three days; the translator's intellectual level must be high. I've come across terrible translations several times that are impossible to read.
Second, you need to read carefully. In the first 2-3 pages of Zelazny's books, you might want to just skim to the end to see how it all ends. And then make conclusions about the book's mediocrity. You need to read carefully to appreciate it.
Third, yes, not all books are masterpieces; there are more mediocre ones, starting with "Lord Demon" and below.
But "Chronicles of Amber" – although the most famous – are not the best.

But still, in my opinion, he is the best fantasy author. You can read him here.

http://bookz.ru/authors/jelazni-rodjer.html

P.S. I didn't vote; on one side, there's Zelazny and Tolkien (fantasy), and on the other, Asimov and Saberhagen (science fiction). In the middle, there's Cook and Farmer. Everything is good.

Happy Life

16 years ago

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No, it's ancient because it's passed down from generation to generation; Vissi will confirm it.

It's more likely ancient, like computers in schools.
Here's another piece of evidence of the flaws of fantasy: in it, everything good is always "ancient." Cool ancient magic, cool armor forged a thousand years ago and passed down from one bearded man to another, a cool ancient all-powerful race that, nevertheless, went extinct. And the "modernity" in fantasy, which the reader/player/viewer deals with, is always a decaying society, torn apart by external and internal conflicts – military, ethnic, economic, with people suffering from diseases, poverty, hunger, and genetic deformities.
Enjoy your fantasy!
THAT'S WHY FANTASY IS WORSE, AND THE DRAGON WILL DIE FROM A ROCKET:smile29: :smile29: :smile29: :smile41: :smile41: :smile41:!
WisTrit SHOULD TRY LOOKING FOR INFORMATION HIMSELF!!

In reply to Happy Life

Wistrit

16 years ago

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Here is yet another proof of fantasy's inferiority: in it, everything good is always "ancient". Cool ancient magic, cool armor forged a thousand years ago and passed down from one bearded guy to another, a cool ancient all-powerful race that, nevertheless, went extinct. And the "modernity" in fantasy that the reader/player/viewer deals with is always a degenerate society torn apart by external and internal conflicts — military, ethnic, economic — with people suffering from disease, poverty, hunger, and genetic deformities.

That's not true. Regarding antiquity... well, in most clones they simply couldn't come up with anything better and stole it from Tolkien. But in Arda, everything ancient was forged/made/written under the supervision and blessing of the gods.
As for modernity, that's total nonsense.
I already talked about the sci-fi scenario)

WYVERN WILL NOT DIE FROM A MISSILE BECAUSE IT'S SCI-FI NONSENSE!!!!!!!!!!11 :smile16:
NO INFO ON THE INTERNET! THE MOST I FOUND WAS THIS HEROESWORLD!!

In reply to Nagan-4

Ivanhoj

16 years ago

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Nagan-4

Unfortunately, Zhelezny heavily relies on the quality of the translator; it's not like translating 225 Conan books in three days. The translator needs to have a high intellectual level. I've encountered terrible translations several times that are impossible to read.

Intriguing. I would like to know the names of good translators. :)

Happy Life

16 years ago

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And yes, it’s hard to come up with “something better” in fantasy in general, because in order to be fantasy, it has to be banal and clichéd. It’s such a primitive genre, what can you do?
THE ORCS IN WARCRAFT HAD ALL THEIR AXES CROOKED!!!
DOROKON CAN BE SHOT WITH A BOW AND KILLED WITH A SIMPLE SWORD, HE’S VERY WEAK!! PLAY HEROES AT LEAST!
THAT’S WHY NF IS BETTER THAN FANTASY!

Nagan-4

16 years ago

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Intriguing. I would like to know the names of good translators.

I think you can judge by the translators – Kozina, Tishinina, Kurteeva, I. and N. Shubins, Kokorev, Slavgorodsky. In my opinion, it's acceptable. In general, fans say that the old translations are the best. Zhelyazny is one of the first authors who began to be translated in our country when this work was not yet put on a production basis: the translators were good, and the times were hard, so they really tried.

P.S. To preserve the good name of the master on our forum, a small clarification: in my opinion, it is better not to read under the title "Zhelyazny".
1. "Chronomasters" - perhaps it can't be said that it's bad. More precisely, it's terribly bad, as bad as it gets. Written after the author's death by his wife and co-author, Jane Lindskold.
2. "Psycholava" - co-author Bester, he seems to be the main author.
3. The trilogy-continuation of "The Chronicles of Amber" - "Dawn of Amber", "Amber and Chaos", "Rule of Amber". Author – John Gregory Betancourt. Awful.
4. The "Star Speedway" trilogy - "Clypsys", "Pitfall", "Web". Although co-authorship is attributed, there is nothing by Zhelyazny there.
5. "Lord Demon" and "Donnerjack" (not to be confused with "Jack of Shadows" - an excellent book) were published again after the master's death by his wife. If the name Zhelyazny were not on the cover, it would be tolerable. However, after each scene where the spirit of Zhelyazny is subtly present, the characters immediately start sniffling, kissing... and dreaming of marrying each other. And it is very drawn out; what the master described in a couple of juicy sentences takes up 2 pages. Only great respect for Zhelyazny made me finish reading.

In general, with Zhelyazny, it's a matter of luck, which book you read first: a bad one or a good one – and then you judge him based on that.

Avern

16 years ago

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Only real-life event books are better than sci-fi and fantasy. Especially if the participant of these events describes them. And there are very few good fantasy books. And lately, almost nothing good is being written.
to KostyaN Read Zelazny's "Night in October" or "Jack of Shadows," you'll definitely like them. In "October," the narration is from the dog Snuff's perspective, and it's so vivid that you feel like you're in the dog's skin, and October is so damp and cold. And "Jack" is a story about numerous betrayals and one friendship. And in general, it's rare when a negative character becomes the main hero.
Oh, yes. Also, "Lord of Light" - Zelazny himself considered this book his best work.

Alan

16 years ago

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"A Rose for the Ecclesiast" – I recommend you read this story by Zheleznyakov; it's short, but it leaves a strong impression. In general, you should pay attention to the year the work was created; his best works are from before the 90s.

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