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Posts from [ANOTHER FLAME WAR] Are dragons overpowered or not?Auto-translated
Yes, our conversation with Krabe about my image was full of universal wisdom! And regarding my "long" posts – it's not for nothing that I got top marks for almost all my essays in school! However, if Kosha gets carried away, she'll come up with something so wild that she'll frantically try to remember what she was talking about later!
Closed for reconstruction. Slowly but surely, a new site is being cobbled together on Joomla, while the old one is a pain to update — I have to dig through the code for ages. I'm posting almost everything new and interesting on HeroesWorld in the "Art-Fantasy" section; the rest is stored either on my computer or in a notebook, since all decent ideas pop into my head exclusively in the middle of a lecture)))
Yeah, I just can't be bothered.
Palin, I forgot this post is in a hidden section((( Alright, I'll drop it somewhere on HeroesWorld) You're an interesting person. You ask me about my image, and when I show it to you, you say you don't follow links)))
I wasn't asking, I was just saying that I can't imagine you doing that, and even if I look at your picture, it won't make me agree with it... it should come from communication or something like that.
Yukos is convenient, but I don't like it. There are too many sites on this platform, and the layout is the same for all of them. I want something unique.
I have enough ammunition and supplies for a war on two fronts.
You shouldn't generalize everyone here. It's not impossible that someone might like this specific image of a minotaur. After all, Cerberus also existed as a single specimen; nevertheless, in HoMM or KB, nothing stops a player from having a unit of 10k Cerberi.
As for the minotaur specifically—who he is is described in detail in the Legends of Greece.
And so you've answered each other.
Regarding the others—orcs, dwarves—the perceptions are indeed different. Nowhere is it written exactly how they should be; by the way, the same applies to dragons, as Kosha said.
Really? Is that because nothing is written about them in school textbooks, while myths of Ancient Greece are?
For example, elves, according to the original source, as far as I know, are actually one of the space races, aliens. You can judge the same minotaurs by the original source, since they are from legends. But not the others.
No, that's not true. Originally, elves most closely resembled creatures that are now called "fairies" in fantasy. Although not everywhere. It was Tolkien, strangely enough, who interpreted them as what they are today; before that, they could only be something between a fairy or spirit and the modern popularized elf. The discrepancy depended on the nation that invented such a myth.
Nevertheless, you stubbornly fight for the copyrights of the person who first came up with the image of a dragon as a killing machine, gold collector, and princess kidnapper.
Correct. I don't like it when some nobodies take other people's ideas and rework them however they want, then stamp out hundreds of clichéd pulp novels, games, and even movies in which the heroine inevitably wears mithril thongs plus ten. Put elves, a dragon, and an evil sorcerer into a piece of work—and you get the most banal nonsense, from which someone will nevertheless make a certain profit. And there is no doubt that they will get it; one only needs to look at a bookstore shelf and glance at the multitude of books on Warhammer, Stalker, StarCraft, Warcraft, and even Diablo. That's why there are now many minor or major variations of the original. Someone buys copyrights for something, don't they? And people won't eat everything. That's why "dark elves" appear, depending on the concept practicing matriarchal sado-masochism (of course, with a strip of leather as clothing) or being noble loyal outcasts; no less noble orcs who possess magic and save the world and the tribe from cataclysms; and, of course, intelligent mage-dragons, who in their terminal stage are deities, as can be seen in the latest version of "Heroes". Of course, dragons were invented by a people, not someone specific, but then who was NOT invented by a people? Halflings?
In the next block, I will answer the small and meaningless quotes all at once:
where is she forcing anyone?
haven't seen. The fact that you acknowledge the existence of any other opinion—haven't seen.
she didn't say she was wrong. Only that she might be wrong. By the way, since we're talking philosophy, everyone has their own concept of truth.
yes, accepted, what's stopping you?
why is it not disposed to?
dispassionately and coldly.
and what, is it wrong to prove the correctness of one's own opinion? If, of course, one accepts the fact that your opinion may be wrong and someone else's right.
"Minos", if my memory serves me correctly, means "bull" in Greek. You call this "the smallest thing"?
Was it said there that dragons are at the intelligence level of a dog or an oligophrenic child? That's what I saw and remembered.
This is obvious. You choose only those facts that support your theory, dismissing and refusing to acknowledge others.
I copied her own words. You looked poorly; "re-read the posts again." Well of course she didn't claim she was wrong—the maximum threshold for the often unfounded pride of other people is merely to admit the possibility of being wrong; and don't speak for others, alright? No, not accepted, since you are tearing my message into quotes and refuting every word; there is nothing shameful in admitting this. Because I don't like such a tone. What, using "you" (formal) and the absence of smileys along with infantile behavior makes it so uncomfortable? Discrepancies, and therefore discussions, arise exclusively from the fact that one's own opinion is considered correct and another's is not—this is obvious; another matter is whether everyone can accept someone else's opinion or properly justify their own. No, "Minos" is the name of a god, and it does not mean "bull". Correct, and there were also words about omnipotent reptiles; an analogy exactly like the minotaur. Of course I choose facts that support my point of view, which is quite logical; however, I do not dismiss others, but refute them; nevertheless, without forgetting other examples that I have previously commented on.
And why should we prove your own point of view to you? We are proving that our opinion has a right to exist because it is supported by certain, albeit few, facts. You are wrong at least because "the number of examples of intelligent dragons is so insignificant that they can be neglected." So who among us is abstracting?
You spoke about both of you accepting my point of view. When I noted in the previous post that you didn't accept it at all, you agreed with this. This is inconsistent and looks bad, as without attempting to refute my premise about your non-acceptance of my facts, you backed down. This would mean nothing if not for the fact that this thought has to be raised again and same thing discussed over and over, every time anew, treading water. Now it has already taken up two paragraphs. I don't need my point of view proven to me; that would be funny but pointless. Nevertheless, if you have indeed accepted it, then there is no need to "try your hardest to prove my limitedness and wrongness" to me, which seems to have ended already, and that is gratifying. I suggest closing this tedious thesis.
If you are so afraid of a ban, let me reassure you—on HW
No, originally I was interested in the new tournament, which, however, turned out not to be a duel one and therefore unnecessary for me; HeroesWorld doesn't have a monopoly on this, fortunately, and even if I were banned, I would be able to find this pleasure on other portals. But it would be unpleasant for me to end up on the ban-list due to the momentary whim of those who disagree with me in a holy war discussion. That would not reflect well on the person.
The same "you" (formal). Age? Relax, I'm 17. Green nick? What's so special about that, moderators are not demigods but people just like all other flooders. Our green-nicks don't suffer from delusions of grandeur. A tribute to the rules of decency? When I came to HW, I was amazed at how easily and freely everyone "tutted" (used informal you) each other. With us it's quite normal to "tut" a person who is 10-15 years older, and no one sees anything special in this (although one certainly shouldn't overdo it).
This is a tribute to decency. If I don't know the person I am communicating with—not face to face, but on the internet—I avoid familiarities. However, overdoing it in this case would be writing the address "You" (formal) with a capital letter. Anyway, if you are uncomfortable and this will make it easier...
Most of the arguments, even in serious Heroes topics, are conducted at the level of "Petya, you're an idiot!" "Vasya, you're an idiot yourself!"
Now that is not encouraging.
Ignoring decency or deviating from canons? Here too one can say things differently. Just putting an orc in a tree is kind of stupid. But if both the character and the place of residence are designed appropriately, so that they harmonize with each other and echo general perceptions even slightly—believe me, there will be people who like it.
There are people for whom "the more the better." Whether it's the number of races, weapons, worldviews, no matter how untenable or stupid they may be. You even have a corresponding section on the forum, don't you? These people really will "appreciate" a lot. Only in such a scenario, everything green would simply be called an orc. If anyone considers this an elegant and original solution, it won't be me.
of course. Dwarves are not only those little fat men like in children's cartoons))
Dwarves with banhammers cooler than mine—at least HoMM 5. Dwarves living without magic—KB, TES (if I'm not mistaken, Dwemer mainly used technology), also throughout the whole HoMM series they have magic resistance. I don't know the Warcraft universe well enough, I won't lie, but I'm sure if you dig around, similar examples can be found there. In literature, I can cite far fewer cases, at least because the only fantasy with dwarves I've read is "The Lord of the Rings".
Ah, those dwarves. An old and worn-out translation problem where drunken "dwarves" were easily translated as "gnomes" (гномы), while small and scrawny "gnomes" are always perversions? Then it's clear. A simple mismatch.
I have enough ammunition and provisions for a war on two fronts.
So, is this war? Well done, keep turning our cozy pub into a battlefield.
That's right. I don't like the fact that some freeloaders take other people's ideas and rework them as they see fit, then churn out hundreds of cliché yellow books, games, and even movies in which the heroine invariably wears mithril thongs plus ten. Add elves, a dragon, and an evil sorcerer to the mix – you get the most banal nonsense imaginable, from which someone will still make a certain profit. And there are no doubts about whether he will make it; just look at the bookstore shelf and survey the multitude of books on Warhammer, Stalker, StarCraft, Warcraft, and even Diablo. Therefore, now there are many minor or significant variations of the original. Someone buys copyrights to something, right? And not everyone will dislike it. That’s why things like “dark elves” appear, depending on the idea, professing matriarchal sadomasochism (of course, with a strip of leather as clothing) or being noble outcast protectors, equally noble orcs who wield magic and save the world and their tribe from cataclysms, and, of course, intelligent dragons-mages, in the terminal stage becoming deities, as can be seen in the latest version of "Heroes." Of course, dragons were invented by the people, and not by anyone specific, but who, in that case, was not invented by the people? Hobbits?
So, do you think that everywhere and in everything one should follow canons, without showing any imagination and constantly checking against the source material? If all of humanity thought like you, we would now be sitting around a campfire eating another mammoth. New ideas and perspectives, good or bad, drive and develop us. Doing the same thing over and over is boring. And a sexy elf in mithril thongs +10 at least provides some amusement in the worst case scenario. Besides, as everyone knows, you can find a few pearls in a pile of manure. If this problem worries you so much, read about the theory of evolution and apply it to modern fantasy. Bad ideas will eventually die out and be forgotten. And good ones will enrich world culture.
Of course, I choose facts that support my point of view, which is quite logical; however, I don't reject others, but refute them; nevertheless, remembering other examples that I have commented on before.
And here, by the way, dragons in the East are quite peaceful, wise, and positive creatures. This too is tradition, canon, rule. And also about dragons.
Do you see Eastern dragons in works of fantasy? I don’t. So there’s no need to bring this up.If this is a reasonable and objective refutation, then I am a crocodile. Since we're talking about mythology, let's consider the mythology of different peoples.
This would mean nothing if it weren't for the fact that this thought has to be brought up again and again, each time discussing it anew, treading water. It already takes up two paragraphs now.
Who is treading water? We provide examples that do not fit into your point of view. You dismiss them with indignation in the style of "this cannot be, because it cannot be, I don't want it anyway, and besides, there is no place for it in my theory." And this has been happening for half of the topic already. Have we denied the fact that there are dragons described by you? Point it out.
But I would not like to end up on the ban list due to the momentary whim of those who disagree with me in a heated discussion. This wouldn't make a person look good.
The key word is "heated discussion". Who started it – me or you? Or do you think I’m so bad that I could ban someone just like that? Well, judging a person without knowing him isn't a sign of good manners or objectivity. Before attacking me, you should have read at least some of my posts to get an overall picture. As for me, I almost always try to learn more about a person first.
If I don't know the person I am communicating with face-to-face, but online, then I avoid familiarity.
I was also somewhat shocked when completely unfamiliar people (oh god, one of them turned out to be even a moderator!) casually addressed me like this and joined a lively conversation. This quickly helped me settle into what is now my favorite forum.
However, if you are uncomfortable...
Of course, it's awkward. We sit around chatting quietly, having duels on flamethrowers and banhammers, relaxing as much as we can; then you appear and start talking in the most serious way possible. And when there is an attempt to involve you in our entertaining style of chat, you immediately adopt an even more serious, sometimes aggressive attitude, discouraging any desire to continue the conversation.
And that doesn’t inspire confidence.
Nevertheless, this style allows us to discuss serious things without heated arguments.
There are people for whom "the more, the better." Whether it's the number of races, weapons, worldviews, no matter how inconsistent or stupid they may be. You even have a corresponding section on the forum, don't you? These people will really appreciate a lot. But with such an approach, they would call everything green-colored just orcs. If someone considers this an elegant and original solution, it won't be me.
I am not arguing, such people exist. Creating something based on this principle is not very good. But nothing prevents creative flight. See above – bad ideas will die out over time, truly beautiful solutions will remain. We just need to be patient, perhaps for several hundred years. Evolution does not rush. And what is wrong with a section for fantasizing people who want to create something new?
Ah, these dwarves. An old and tired problem of translation, in which drunken "dwarves" were easily translated as "gnomes," while small and skinny "gnomes" always lead to perversions? Then that’s clear. A simple mismatch.
And those, and those, and even those, besides there are others. It was translated like that, so it became established. The Russians, for example, call the country Germany, and not Deutschland, and the people living there are called Germans. Next time, specify which gnomes you mean.
By the way, here are a couple more examples of good dragons. Akatosh is the dragon god of time, king of gods from the TES universe. If you don't like the idea of god-dragons, I can provide this cutest creature. If desired, I will throw in several screenshots showing his behavior on the battlefield at times when he is not attacking or sleeping. Then the little dragon eats apples, plays with a snail and "roots" for Amelie's troops.
Ucoz is convenient, but I don't like it. Too many sites use this engine, and the layout is the same. I want something of my own)
You can even write HeroesWorld on Ucoz, there's room for imagination there too)) Why argue, Morning doesn't want to admit the obvious fact, she apparently has no sense of humor (I just looked at her profile, didn't even know she was a woman lol), well then screw it, I no longer care about her opinion in any way, because I've lost all respect for her.
On vBulletin you might be able to make HeroesWorld, Wulf, but not on Yukos. Only if it's a knockoff of HeroesWorld.
O God of Earth and Altar, Bow down and hear our cry, Our earthly rulers falter, Our people drift and die, The walls of gold entomb us, The swords of scorn divide, Take not thy thunder from us, Take away our pride.
Драккошка
Arandor
