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Posts from SoY-5: Online Tournaments "Seasons of year" - "Seasons" - Spring Season 2009Auto-translated
I didn't want to interfere, but since there's such a fuss, I ask that you take a look here: /topic/5710/ Regardless of the outcome of the match between teams N (except for a draw), team P will enter the top 10; a draw leaves them out – fair play in action...
Friends, sorry for butting into the conversation, even though I wasn't a participant in the tournament.
Let's say a player finds out who their future opponents in the tournament are and sends them the following message on ICQ: "Hi, we're playing in the tournament (tournament name), let me know exactly when you can play."
It's a single, short, and somewhat formal sentence. The opponent is simply obligated to provide a detailed response about when they can play; if they remain silent, they have de facto acknowledged that they will receive zero points for not showing up to the game.
However, if I write to my tournament opponent - "Hi, want to play a game?". He agrees and loses - but I won't be able to prove that we played in the tournament: the person will logically argue that it was just a casual practice game, and there was no mention of the tournament in my invitation; he was also just playing a casual game.
In general, formality hasn't been canceled; a couple of normal phrases to the opponent with an invitation to play - and there's no need to create multi-page threads later about who was a jerk, IMHO.
And why are people now waving their fists after the fight - the tournament is officially over. And the judges need to think about how to prevent this from happening again in the future, as well as the players.
Thank you, Nagan-4, for your opinion. I also reread everything carefully.
The decision regarding the technical results was made based on the following rule (this rule wasn't invented out of thin air; it's a well-known rule of the round-robin system. Compliance with it affects the final result. Those interested in the fairness of this rule can read the theory and learn how the Berger coefficient is calculated): Tournament participants who have played less than 50% of the matches are disqualified, the results of the played matches are annulled, and their opponents are awarded technical wins. It was our fault that we didn't announce this rule. We will be more careful in the future. I posted the results taken from this thread on the forum 10 days after the announced deadline. That is, the tournament was extended by 10 days. Dirty_Player, in accordance with this rule, disqualified two players and awarded technical points (the only exception was that he didn't deduct Andrey's point in the match against Psyche_7, although he should have). The remaining four players had played all their matches against each other. I didn't receive any messages from Britvochka about the reasons for the unplayed matches, either in the tournament thread or personally. Andrey, please answer the following questions: 1. If you had problems with arranging matches, why did you remain silent about it?ewgeniy
Matches should be arranged in this thread; if, for any reason, you cannot play at the agreed time, you must notify your opponent at least 24 hours in advance.
2. Provide logs showing that you tried to arrange a match. Offering to play at a specific time is not considered an arrangement. Personally, I received offers from you when I was at work and couldn't play. Was this intentional? Where are the attempts to arrange a match with me or other opponents at a mutually convenient time, and where did you receive a refusal? 3. Why didn't you at least announce this on the forum right before you left? You knew you would return when the tournament was already over, right? Look at Javdet; he was leaving for a month, and the organizers and players of three forums were on their toes, just trying to finish all the matches with him. 4. Why, out of the 5 weeks allotted for the matches (June 1st - July 5th), did you play only one match, even though you were absent for only 3 days? Why are you asking why you're getting a reprimand? 5. What did you expect, leaving the tournament in such a state? A "Hi, I'm back" and a party? 6. The logs you provided from ICQ are absolutely identical for all 4 opponents. Why do you have no complaints in two cases, but you do in two? Maybe you should demand all 4 technical wins? Then you'll take 1st place... I am asking these questions not as a player, but as the tournament organizer and a member of the administration. And I want to receive a comprehensive answer to each of these questions.
Friends, sorry for butting into the conversation, even though I wasn't a participant in the tournament. But still...
Let's say a player finds out who his future opponents in the tournament are and sends them the following message on ICQ: "Hi, we're playing in the tournament (tournament name), let me know exactly when you can play."
One sentence, short and polite. The opponent is simply obliged to provide a detailed answer about when he can play; if he remains silent, he de facto admits that he will receive zero points for not showing up for the game.
But if I write to my tournament opponent - "Hi, want to play a game?". He agrees and loses - but I won't be able to prove that we played in the tournament: the person will logically argue that it was just a light practice game, and there was no mention of the tournament in my invitation, so he was just playing a simple game too.
In general, politeness hasn't been canceled; a couple of normal phrases to the opponent with an invitation to play - and there's no need to then create multi-page topics about who was a jerk, IMHO.
And why wave your fists after the fight now - the tournament is officially over. And the judges need to think about how to prevent this from happening in the future, as well as the players.
The simplicity of Nagan's wisdom can be accepted, but it seems they can't understand it themselves... I fully support this 100%; if you enter a tournament, be serious about it... In Britvotchka's case, it's the opposite; he's waiting for things to happen on their own. People wrote to him about the clan war, he didn't say he was leaving, and he arrived when there were only 2-3 days left until the end of the tournament. So, either this is his attitude towards opponents, or it's some kind of oversight, or it's simply a policy not to consider tournament games as a reason for concern (an attitude for a few, perhaps even rare, people)!!!!:smile13:
Friends, sorry for butting into the conversation, even though I wasn't a participant in the tournament. But still...
Let's say a player finds out who their future opponents in the tournament are and sends them the following message on ICQ: "Hi, we're playing in the tournament (tournament name), let me know exactly when you can play."
One sentence, short and polite. The opponent is simply obliged to respond in detail about when they can play; if they remain silent, they have de facto acknowledged that they will receive zero points for not showing up to the game.
But if I write to my tournament opponent - "Hi, want to play a game?". He agrees and loses - but I won't be able to prove that we played in the tournament: the person will logically argue that it was just a light training game, and there was no mention of the tournament in my invitation; he was also just playing a simple game.
In general, politeness hasn't been canceled; a couple of normal phrases to the opponent with an invitation to play - and there's no need to create multi-page threads later about who was a jerk, IMHO.
And why are you now waving your fists after the fight - the tournament is
officially over. And the judges need to think about how to prevent this from happening in the future, as well as the players.
On the portal, there's a good tradition in the cup - you write in the thread about your desire to play, and there are no problems - either the opponent must accept the challenge, or maybe we should adopt that experience?
1. Because I won't make a tragedy out of it, I can always find an opponent for a game of HMM3.
2. I've already provided the logs; these were my attempts to negotiate about tournament games. Both opponents should make an effort to negotiate. Why weren't there any attempts to negotiate from you and other players?
3. I didn't have time for that; I needed to get ready quickly, and it wouldn't have changed anything anyway.
4. Because there were no attempts to negotiate a game with me.
5. I was counting on an extension of the deadline and understanding.
6. I have no complaints about specific players; I was outraged by the overall situation where only 6 out of 15 games were played, and only 5 were actually played (one had an internet connection problem), the tech choices were made according to an unclear principle, and I was made to feel guilty.
These arguments are already tiring me, and I'm not going to continue them. If this tournament is over, so be it; it seemed no more than a formality to me. Although it was the most appealing of the current tournaments because I like playing on fixed maps, and I have repeatedly made offers to play on them; those to whom I made the offers can confirm this. Long live the administration. You can close this thread.
1. Because I won't make a tragedy out of it, I can always find an opponent for a game in HMM3. 2. I've already provided the logs; these were my attempts to arrange tournament matches. Both opponents should make an effort to negotiate. Why weren't there any attempts to negotiate from you and other players? 3. I didn't have time for it; I needed to get ready quickly, and it wouldn't have changed anything anyway. 4. Because there were no attempts to negotiate a game with me. 5. I was counting on an extension of the deadlines and understanding. 6. I have no complaints about specific players; I was outraged by the overall situation where only 6 out of 15 games were played, and only 5 were actually played (one had an internet connection issue), the tech choices were made based on an unclear principle, and I was made out to be the one at fault. I'm tired of these arguments, and I'm not going to continue them. If this tournament is over, so be it; it seemed more formal than anything else to me. Although it was the most appealing of the current tournaments because I enjoy playing on fixed maps, and I have repeatedly made suggestions to play on them, which those I made the suggestions to can confirm. Long live the administration. You can close this topic.
Thank you for your answers. I have already answered your questions in previous posts. I hope that this will be the end of it.
For myself, I have drawn a serious conclusion about the need to quickly finalize the Tournament Rules and ensure the correctness of all formulations. We will have to explain the meaning of the word "negotiate" in the Rules and clearly outline the algorithm for this action. Over the past month and a half, I have spent hours analyzing ICQ logs and arguments – who, when, what, and to whom proposed. If we want tournament deadlines to be met and games to be played, we need to learn about communication culture and mutual understanding.
Thank you for your answers. I have already answered your questions in previous posts. I hope that this will be the end of it.
I have drawn a serious conclusion for myself about the need to quickly finalize the Tournament Rules and ensure the correctness of all formulations. I will have to explain the meaning of the word "negotiate" in the Rules and clearly describe the algorithm for this action. Over the past month and a half, I have been spending hours analyzing ICQ logs and disputes - who, when, what, and to whom offered. If we want the tournament deadlines to be met and the games to be played, we need to learn about communication culture and mutual understanding.
Don't worry - a couple of posts ago, I suggested a working scheme, and by the way, I also asked the problematic pairs to write directly in the topic on Jebus... It would be very good if there was such a note in the rules as well.
Don't worry – a couple of posts ago, I suggested a working solution, and by the way, I also asked those with problems to write directly in the thread... It would be very good if there was such a note in the rules as well.
I support this scheme; as they say, everything will be clear, and we will know who is who!!!:D
I'm surprised by the decision, although I don't have a personal interest. Unfortunately, I decided to withdraw from the tournament. It just so happened that a lot of absurd episodes accumulated, resulting in such a modest result in the games I played. I won't elaborate; those who participated mostly know what I'm talking about. Just to give you an example, there was a case when I finally managed to schedule a game with one or another player at a convenient time, and I ended up in a match between them :smile11:. I received offers from some, and I sent offers to others – it doesn't matter anymore. I believe that, for the sake of fairness, playing against me should bring the same benefit to everyone, and not be divided into those and those who aren't. I also have doubts about the fairness of the judging regarding Britvotchka; at least in the game against me, he deserves at least the same result as others against me.
Javdet
