Value of artifacts. — General

Registered: 11/15/2008

Posts: 2,497

#1 9/20/2009 6:48 PM UTC

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Here, dear fellow Heroes 3 enthusiasts, I'd like to propose a topic for discussion. As you know, in Heroes 3, there are 4 classes of artifacts (treasure, secondary, primary, and relic), i.e., levels 1, 2, 3, and 4. Don't you think that some artifacts in the classic version clearly don't match their level? Just as an example, the Boots of Speed should be moved from level 2 to level 3 or 4, and the Sandals of the Saints (+2 to all stats) to level 2 or 3. I think there's more to add, and perhaps the esteemed asm will take this into account if necessary. IMHO.

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Registered: 10/16/2007

Posts: 3,358

#2 9/20/2009 7:24 PM UTC

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Well, the balance of artifacts in TE has already been changed anyway ;) :)

- Levels are changing:
1) Upward:
Scull Helmet (+2 Kn) – Treasure ® Minor
Legs of Legion – Treasure ® Minor
Ring of Vitality (+1 Health) – Treasure ® Minor
Necklace of Swiftness (+1 Speed) – Treasure ® Minor
Spirit of Oppression – Treasure ® Minor
Boots of Speed – Minor ® Major
2) Downward:
Garniture of Interference (+5% Resistance) – Major ® Treasure
Emblem of Cognizance (+15% Eagle Eye) – Minor ® Treasure
Surcoat of Counterpoise (+10% Resistance) – Major ® Minor
Statesman’s Medal – Major ® Treasure
Diplomat’s Ring – Major ® Treasure
Ambassador’s Sash – Major ® Treasure
Pendant of Second Sight (AntiBlind) – Major ® Treasure
Ring of the Wayfarer (+1 Speed) – Major ® Minor
Purse of Gold (+500 gold) – Major ® Minor
Everflowing Crystal Cloak – Major ® Minor
Ring of Infinite Gems – Major ® Minor
Everpouring Vial of Mercury – Major ® Minor
Eversmoking Ring of Sulfur – Major ® Minor
Arms of Legion – Major ® Minor
Head of Legion – Major ® Minor
Sphere of Permanence – Major ® Minor
Necklace of the Ocean Guidance – Major ® Minor
Dead Man’s Boots – Major®Minor
Boots of Polarity (+15% Resistance) – Relic ® Major
Sack of Gold (+1000 gold) – Relic ® Major
Sea Captain’s Hat – Relic ® Major

Сейчас балуюсь этим https://vcmi.eu/download/
За то что нейтралы не бегают за единичкой, для меня это уже стоит того

Registered: 11/15/2008

Posts: 2,497

#3 9/20/2009 7:32 PM UTC

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Yeah, I can’t think of anything good about this in the Town Editor (((… And even so, +2 to all stats for a relic is too overpowered… It seems the developers of the Town Editor didn’t take everything into account…
P.S. I’ve already found one mistake:

Lider1

Garniture of Interference (+5% Resistance) – Major ® Treasure

There was never +5% resistance on major artifacts; it was on minor ones… And I wouldn’t rush to translate this into treasures…

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In reply to Wlk777

Registered: 11/27/2007

Posts: 5,092

#4 9/20/2009 7:45 PM UTC

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Wlk777

Even so, +2 to all stats for a relic is too overpowered.

No, it's fine. Look at other artifacts with stats – major artifacts give +5 or +6 to stats (the Dragon Armor in The Restoration of Erathia is a relic). And relics starting from +8 (take, for example, pieces from the Titan set). So, the sandals fit perfectly into this pattern. The problem with the sandals isn't that they give too little, but that the bonus is spread across stats, so there isn't such a clear effect as, for example, from the cuirass.

In reply to Wicc

Registered: 11/15/2008

Posts: 2,497

#5 9/20/2009 7:55 PM UTC

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Wicc

Nah, it's fine. Look at the stats of other artifacts — majors give +5 or +6 to parameters (the dragon torso in ER is a relic).

And relics start from +8 (take the pieces of the titan set, for example). So the sandals fit right into this pattern.

The trouble with the sandals isn't even that they give little, but that the bonus is spread across parameters, so there isn't such a clear effect as, say, from the cuirass.

The dragon torso is also a relic in SoD. However, +8 to the total is quite weak for a relic (when there are +24, +20), it's just right for a major IMHO =[br][/br] P.S. Does that mean the charm against blindness was also put into the "trash" category??? Now that' same be a mistake, the guys got carried away...

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In reply to Wlk777

Registered: 11/27/2007

Posts: 5,092

#6 9/20/2009 8:27 PM UTC

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Wlk777

The dragon torso and the relic in the Dungeon of Doom. However, +8 to the sum is quite weak for a relic (when there are +24 and +20 available), it's perfect for a major artifact, in my opinion.

Then you'll have to make the dragon torso and helmet major artifacts, as well as the titan torso and helmet, and the titan shield and sword too (+9 total, what a mess).

Added after 13 minutes

Wlk777P.S. So, the blind charm was also listed as useless? That's definitely unnecessary, they got carried away...

The blind charm is a situational artifact - in most cases, it's not very useful (there might not be any blinding, or blinding might not be needed), but in rare cases, it can decide the fate of the party.

It's the same as with dispel (recently, Napalm used this artifact to pull off a practically hopeless victory against me), anti-dispel (with which Alex managed to bring the final of the St. Petersburg 2008 championship to a near draw), and many other anti- spells (the most notable are anti-berserk and anti-light). I even read a report about a game where the final game was won because of the presence of anti-curse.

Such artifacts shouldn't have a high level, simply because it's generally difficult to assess their usefulness (unlike, say, a +6 sword). That is, their benefit is variable, while the strength of the guard is constant.

Therefore, major artifacts and relics should have artifacts that provide a clear positive function for the hero (relevant or potentially becoming so), justifying the cost of obtaining them. And situational artifacts can reside on the lower floors - if it is really needed (1-10% of the cases), you can take it from any guard and run away in half the map. And in the rest, you won't even bother picking it up from the floor

In reply to Wicc

Registered: 11/21/2007

Posts: 500

#7 9/21/2009 5:03 AM UTC

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Wicc

...

+1 to everything said.

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Registered: 11/15/2008

Posts: 2,497

#8 9/21/2009 6:15 AM UTC

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Still, IMHO, 8-9 and 20-24 are too different numbers...

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In reply to Wlk777

Registered: 11/21/2007

Posts: 500

#9 9/21/2009 7:39 AM UTC

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A + to the eagle eye and +1 to speed are even more diverse. It's difficult to rank all four artifact classes without some fluctuations.
A bag with +1000, I think, is definitely worse than the all-stats +6 one.
In The Restoration of Erathia, the artifact balance is almost perfect. IMHO.

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In reply to Forrest

Registered: 11/15/2008

Posts: 2,497

#10 9/21/2009 8:19 AM UTC

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Forrest

A bag with +1000 is definitely worse than an all-stats +6 item.
.

Sandals are definitely much worse than a teapot =). But a bag of gold can turn out to be more valuable than a teapot, for example, if you have a blue hat.

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In reply to Wlk777

Registered: 11/21/2007

Posts: 500

#11 9/21/2009 8:46 AM UTC

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Wlk777

Indeed, sandals are much worse than a teapot =). And a bag of gold can turn out to be more valuable than a teapot, for example, if you have a blue hat.

And what conclusion can be drawn from this?)
That a bag is definitely worse than sandals)
When you have a teapot and a blue hat, and when you don't have boots of speed.

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In reply to Forrest

Registered: 3/16/2009

Posts: 517

#12 9/21/2009 9:17 AM UTC

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Forrest

So, what's the conclusion?
That boots are definitely worse than sandals.
Especially when you have a Kettle and a Blue Hat, and when you don't have Boots of Speed.

Well, you can switch to sneakers at the end of the turn for speed, depending on the stats, or am I missing something again?

In reply to Forrest

Registered: 11/15/2008

Posts: 2,497

#13 9/21/2009 9:25 AM UTC

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Forrest

So, what's the conclusion?
That a bag is definitely worse than sandals.
Especially when you have a teapot and a blue hat, and when you don't have boots of speed.

There are different types of boots (and +15 resistance is also a good thing), and the situations are different. But 8-9 is definitely much less than 20-24 :cool:

Added 1 minute ago

Van

Well, you can switch to sneakers at the end of the turn for speed, or switch to stats when moving, or am I missing something?

You can, but there's a risk of being attacked unexpectedly. Although, sandals +2 probably won't be very useful, it's not like a teapot =)

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Registered: 11/27/2007

Posts: 5,092

#14 9/21/2009 9:34 AM UTC

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"Speak more, so that the foolishness of each is clearly visible" (c) Peter I

In reply to Wicc

Registered: 4/29/2007

Posts: 11,704

#15 9/21/2009 12:35 PM UTC

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Why are the Sandals a Relic? Because there aren't any other decent items for footwear to use in battle. Boots are for nighttime, but sandals are the only option for combat. That's probably why they're a Relic. There are plenty of swords and helmets, so the competition is high there.

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