Posts from Rules for Heroes of Might and Magic III online tournaments on HeroesWorld. Auto-translated

How can you refuse someone participation in a tournament on a democratic forum (and any other forum)?

Silence. Just refuse.

Don't confuse democracy with anarchy.

I agree. A judge is just a person, like you and me, with all the problems and concerns in real life. They have to judge a tournament, and they are under heavy pressure from both sides - whether there was cheating or not. Accusing someone of cheating is a serious matter, a very heavy insult, and it can be difficult for one person to make an objective and detailed analysis of the game. Reducing the workload of the judges is already a good thing.

Well, in general, yes, I agree.

But still, I don't really like this approach, when instead of taking more and throwing it further (that is, solving a specific problem in a specific way), they start creating various complex schemes that may not solve the problem, and if they do, it is not a fact that they will not create new ones.

Dear Nagan-4! Many people have read this article, and we have been eagerly awaiting its continuation for several years! By the way, since we are talking about the Dungeon... There is a player there with serious skill and experience in judging! He is also on our forum and does not leave posts with profanity (or veiled profanity) or without punctuation. This person has proven himself to be excellent in organizing inter-forum competitions! Of course, it's Dust!!!

By the way, there are experienced players on our forum who have both solid skill and solid experience in judging: vitalic, Vigo, Captain.

Sounds like mega-mockery! :D
Maybe they'll organize a tournament with cash prizes on HeroesWorld? :D

Here, for example, regarding the draw. Dirty_Player, in my opinion, is beyond competition in this matter. Why not rope him into this?

No problem! Hit us up, we'll make it happen ;)

Let me explain once more why I wrote these Rules in the first place.

Various commissions and hierarchies are forcing a situation where there are many generals, but few soldiers.

At the moment, the situation is as follows. I am a soldier, and there are many like me. Yes, we came here to fight: first simply to find opponents in our favorite game, then to see ourselves move up a line in the ratings, then to try our strength in Tournaments. Unfortunately, our tournaments are not being run very well; there are many problems. Our generals (there are few of them now), i.e., people marked by official authority, hardly play online; they are overloaded in real life, and moderation on the forum alone requires a huge amount of time. Therefore, the wishes of the players are somewhat unclear to them. How many abandoned tournaments? How often are deadlines missed due to the fault of the organizers rather than the players? I highly respect the work of the organizers and moderators. And everything I am proposing is not to offend them, but to help them and create more comfortable living conditions for the players. Conventionally, so that some of the soldiers could take on the authority of sergeants and be responsible for a small section of the work.
(You know perfectly well how many problems most newcomers have when trying to register on bay. In the summer of 2008, I waited a month for an email from some Balamut, writing to him repeatedly everywhere. I only succeeded thanks to Javdet's advice to contact some Vic, who was unknown to me. Are such things beneficial for the forum? Yet writing a registration algorithm is a 10-min job. And all questions would be resolved. Maybe it's already been done, I haven't looked in a long time. Is Armageddon dealing with this now?)

Honestly, I don't see any problems now for which the will of some player, followed by a decision based on the veche principle, would be insufficient.

Well, I have expressed my will regarding the general problems I see, proposed a solution, and the veche seems to actively support it. In my opinion, problems that can be solved once should not be raised in every tournament.

Moreover, introducing aristocratic orders into a collective with a democratic atmosphere means forcing either aggressive opposition or quiet sabotage of them (certainly from my side).

Democracy is not anarchy. If an organizer does not want to or cannot bring a tournament to a conclusion—that is their right. But in the interests of the players, there must be a possibility to replace the organizer and finish what was started. I don't understand what you intend to sabotage? Planning the tournament schedule? I think you wrote yourself that tournaments should be held sequentially—I don't feel like combing through the forum for quotes. And that there are too many tournaments running simultaneously. Professional seeding? Does someone actually like errors in seeding? The resolution of disputed situations by some commission? I understand that the qualification of our players is lower than yours. But here, we make do with what we have. Our forum is young; we will learn. And no one will refuse your advice. You possess a great deal of authority here. But agree, if you yourself end up in a disputed situation, you cannot solve it by your personal authority alone without official regulated assistance.

That is, it may be unobvious to an ordinary player what a member of some commission is doing here, and what right they have to interfere in their affairs. To them, only the hierarchy of judge->player is obvious, in which, among other things, the player can vote with their feet.
I don't see a spectrum of duties for which any commission is needed.

Is it unobvious to the ordinary player what Dirty_Player does? And what right does he have to perform the seeding? The right—professionalism. If someone can do it better—let them offer themselves; the help will be gladly accepted. In general, an ordinary player is unlikely to ask such questions. I recall you asked for a medal under your avatar recently? And Dubrovin waited a long time, and I had to remind them... But I would like such events to happen without reminders and requests. What difference does it make what you call it—a commission or a good person? Please, you can write: "And this good person does our seeding."
Right now, three people are carrying the entire spectrum. Moderation, tournaments, and disputed situations. They do it voluntarily and for free. Not always successfully. It's hard for them, and the general atmosphere of the forum is not very good. These rules are an offer of help from the players.

Self-organization or attracting another lead from the outside. If players want to finish the game, they will do it anyway.

No, again, I don't want to spend time searching for exact links. There are examples, and not only here, but on HP and on bay. And who will attract them?
Judging, cheating—I agree, these are very complex points. I repeat, yes, our qualification is lower than we would like; we haven't grown our own fathers and monsters yet. Our combat experience is small. We will learn, ask for consultations. BUT for this, we don't need foreign authorities who, for the most part, are indifferent to our affairs, but specifically our own, native players, interested in that atmosphere of friendship, trust, and mutual understanding that we are proud of.

You convinced me, you silver-tongued devil.

Perhaps we could organize a Tournaments for newcomers to help them get acquainted with the forum. I would be willing to do it, as I have the time, but I lack the experience. I'm also ready to help Kash with the newcomers. In general, the attitude towards newcomers on the forum is excellent; many players supported me when I first joined.

Added after 10 hours and 31 minutes
Let's approach the problem of forum development from a different angle :D Quite often, you can read on various Heroes forums that it would be good to organize a Tournament with a prize fund, but there is no sponsor. I think the problem is not the money, but the fact that the winner wants to hold some material proof of their championship in their hands, put it on a shelf, and show it to their friends. And this is a perfectly natural desire, as they say: it's better to touch something once than to see it a hundred times. :) Today, I visited a company that specializes in advertising and also produces various business cards, banners, badges, and trophies. Moreover, you can order any trophy, up to the Stanley Cup. But the important thing is that they can manufacture it according to your design (drawing), using different materials, and add inscriptions, reliefs, patterns, and figurines, etc. And it's not expensive: a medium-sized trophy costs only 1500 Rohlandian rupees. So, I'm ready to donate to the championship. But I would like to ask Raper, since you are involved in design, could you create a design, please? And for different Tournaments, there are badges (although only round ones, they don't make shield-shaped ones), very high quality, especially I liked the blackened steel badge with a golden trim and an inscription. Maybe you have the strength to prepare designs for badges for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place, and I would order them and give them to the administration. Regarding Tournaments for newcomers, I really have a lot of time to organize them, but I have absolutely no experience. I would like someone from the organizers to share their knowledge about the pitfalls and challenges in this matter. It seems to me that a MINI-Tournament would be suitable for newcomers: a small number of participants and a simple selection system. Let's say - 8 participants in an Olympic system with double elimination. Such a Tournament would be quick, but it can be held much more often. I think the rules for such a game can also be simplified, because the goal of the Tournament is to introduce the newcomer to the forum and the community, to give them an idea of how to arrange a meeting, how to submit a report, how to choose races, how to behave with opponents and colleagues. I'm not offering myself as a referee, because I definitely have zero experience in that. Maybe Pit for LM can help me. :) Well, I have a few more ideas (for example, to give a special prize to players who played the longest and most grueling game during the season. Let's call it the "Mighty Gorgon" prize, a prize for the audience's favorite :D). But the best thing is to hold Tournaments on a regular basis - that's the recipe for success. PS Kash recommends moving my post to another topic, but I don't know which one. I ask the moderators to delete my post or move it at their discretion, but I will not retract my words. 2 Pit for LM, sorry if I offended you...

Maybe we could organize a tournament for beginners to help boost the forum's activity and allow them to acclimate better. I'd be willing to do it; I have the time, but I lack the experience.

I think the problem lies in this: there are two types of beginners:
1. Someone who hasn't played Heroes seriously before, especially against other players. The proposed tournament would be suitable for this type.
2. Someone who is new to our forum but has 5-10 years of experience playing Heroes online. Even if they've only played for 1-2 years, say in tournaments in Moscow, St. Petersburg, or Minsk, they won't easily forget it; you could consider them experienced players.

And how do you put them together, an experienced "beginner" and a completely new player? Formally, they both fall under the "beginner" category, and it's impossible to distinguish them. An experienced beginner will readily confirm that they've played a bit in the past (and what constitutes "a bit" for Vesuvian or Horn is hard to define).

I have a few more minor ideas (for example, giving a special prize to players who played the longest and most grueling match during the season).

Let's wait and decide on the tournaments first, and then we can talk about prizes. With a systematic approach, we can even discuss sponsorships; it's a shame Loy left, as he had some interesting ideas on that front.

I think the problem lies here. There are two types of newcomers.

I don't think there's a big problem in identifying newcomers of the "first category." It's evident from their reports, sometimes after their first post or after a brief interaction. Off the top of my head, I can name about 15 people who recently joined and don't seem to be taking the game seriously.
And if Avern has the time and, most importantly, the desire to organize such a tournament, let him do it, as long as he has the talent. The main thing is to help him. Yes, and I advised him to create a new topic (it's not quite appropriate here) and talk to the tournament organizers. If I can help in any way, I'm always happy to.

I don't think there's a big problem here – identifying "first-category" newcomers. The reports show that sometimes it's clear after their first post or after a conversation.

That's not necessarily true. Uran and Duj were excellent players, consistently in the top three on the forum, but their reports were terribly formatted, worse than any newcomer. You could also name strong players who write poor reports.
And I've read many wonderful posts from newcomers about the games, written interestingly, грамотно, and with passion; skill is something that can be developed.

PS. To avoid deviating from the main topic, could we move the conversation to a separate thread?

PS 2. But overall, it's a great idea; maybe we could make the title "best newcomer HW 200... year" prestigious.

I carefully re-read all the posts and talked in person. Here is a summary for now. The names are tentative.

Item VII.
Tournament Committee (TC)

- Organizing Commission (OC): issues of planning, organizing, and running tournaments.
ewgeniy - has been responsible for everything for a long time
Ta Kotoraya... - team tournaments and clan wars, consent given
vbn - seasonal rating tournaments, programming, he does this excellently and without our reminders or inclusion anywhere
Javdet - two successfully conducted tournaments over the last 4 months give hope that we have gained an excellent organizer - including them here for coordinating schedules with other organizers
Dirty_Player - draw, assistance in running tournaments
RAPER - design
Nagan-4 - consultations and assistance to organizers on all matters - the wisest and most informed among us

- Communications Commission (CC): matters of communication and coordination.
with the administration - vbn, ewgeniy, Ta Kotoraya...
with friendly resources - Neoandy (HeroesPortal), Wicc (heroes.by)
cross-portal tournaments - Nagan-4 - we cannot accept a refusal

- Noob Commission (NC) - working with newcomers
ewgeniy - an excellent consultant
KostyaN - I'll include them too
Kash - why do you yourself need to play with all the newcomers? You probably have a ton of contacts in ICQ; it's not hard to find a partner for a newcomer. When I played a lot on the rating, I was pinged every half hour. A brief consultation, or if you're busy, redirect them to someone. The main thing is not to leave a newcomer unattended.

By and large, all of this is simply recording and bringing to everyone's attention what has already developed and is working. It doesn't add any new overwhelming responsibilities. But it won't hurt for coordinating actions. If anyone wants to do something else reasonable and important for the forum, feel free to suggest it.

- Appeals Commission (AC): handling controversial situations, combating unfair play, monitoring compliance with tournament rules and deadlines, and player conduct norms.
This commission will need to be voted on. Currently proposed (in alphabetical order):
Alex_R - consent given
Mizrael
LeBron - consent given
Pit for LM - consent given
scorp - consent given
vbn
Pavel Dubrovin

Yesterday I didn't have time to talk to everyone. I ask Mikhail, Vitaly, and Pavel to confirm their consent to join the AC either here or to me personally.

A few words about everyone at once. They have all played for the HeroesWorld national team in at least one cross-portal tournament, meaning they have already been trusted by our players both in terms of qualification and honesty. They are all very passionate people. They all love HeroesWorld. And I hope they will do their utmost to make our lives better, fairer, and cleaner... Maybe keep it at 7 people? Why throw anyone out?

As soon as I receive confirmation from Mizrael, vbn, and Pavel Dubrovin, the vote will start immediately. If there are other candidates, nominate them while there's still time... If I misunderstood someone, please correct me.

2 Nagan-4 What’s wrong with an experienced player participating in a novice tournament? For beginners, the opportunity to play against a pro is a definite plus. Even if they win, the main thing for beginners is the chance to play and communicate. And a top-tier player wouldn’t participate in a competition with novices; they need their own strong and prestigious tournament. A strong player might play against a novice only to boost their rating. So, the rating calculation should be adjusted (based on the chess Elo system) to prevent it from increasing too much. P.S. Maybe I don’t understand the main topic, but I think you can’t discuss tournament rules in isolation from the tournaments themselves. Theory always needs to be tested in practice; we’ll refine the constitution faster that way.

The beginner tournament has one major drawback: beginners tend to disappear without a trace...

There should also be a criterion to distinguish a beginner from a non-beginner.

- communication committee (CC): issues related to communication and coordination.

with friendly resources - Neoandy (HeroesPortal), Wicc (heroes.by)

There is a lot that I could argue, with references, and perhaps with screenshots, about this. I won't do that for now.
Instead, I'll say this.
When it comes to communication with friendly resources, we should also include our dear friends from the League!, because the League is our friend!
PS. By the way, Dust is a highly competent representative of the League of Heroes, who enjoys well-deserved authority and respect on leading websites, including ours.

It turns out that we managed to attract the best online gaming forces from the NoMM3 forum. Just off the top of my head, I can name people who positively evaluated Pit for LM's initiative or agreed to participate in the election to the Council – ewgeniy, Javdet, Wik 777, Ta Kotoraya…, Kash, Dubrovin Pavel, Kostya N, LeBron, Hermit, Lider 1, Qwerty, Dirty Player, OUTLAW, Reper, Avern, Scorp, Alex R, Nagan-4. If Mizrael and vbn also agree, and we manage to persuade Wicc(a) to support the reforms, then we will have more than 20 people, the most active part. Sorry if I missed anyone.

I would like to ask the respected Pit, if he has free time, to talk to players like Sticky Fingas, Aldegir, Spiritt, Sem 56, Smoke mk. It seems that World is also their favorite resource, and they are active players, participating in tournaments and forum discussions. And it's time to call back those who have been away for a while – Invisibl, Loy, Decontaminator.

And maybe we shouldn't focus too much on other committees; those who don't understand might think that we are drowning in bureaucracy. Let this be a purely working document.

And here is the list

Alex_R - agreement received
Mizrael
LeBron - agreement received
Pit for LM - agreement received
scorp - agreement received
vbn
Dubrovin Pavel

which is very good. I would like to see any of them in the Council. The Council will be fully staffed: there are people who are capable of taking action and standing up to bullies when necessary, there are strong analysts, and everyone expresses their thoughts well. They are all the best players on our forum, and they all love our forum. I would suggest keeping all seven.

Just in case, someone might leave for valid reasons, plus vacations. Let's see if such a strong team can do something about our problems. My vote is for such a Council!

2 Qwerty

By the way, Dust is a highly competent representative of the League of Heroes, who enjoys well-deserved authority and respect on leading sites, including ours.

That's a fact. I know Alex Dust in real life; he is a wonderful player and person. I will also vote for including him as a representative of the League of Heroes. But I repeat, all the rest is more of a formality, in my opinion; the main thing is to create a functional council.

I'd like to share some of my thoughts based on what I've read and the conclusions I've drawn:

1. A huge thank you to Pit for LM for his, as they say, clarifying things and setting the record straight; now we'll know who's who...
(Also, thank you for analyzing some of my games and providing a lot of advice that really helped)...

2. The tournament is a very good idea, and it could be made seasonal or held every six months, like a "best newcomer" competition...

3. I completely agree with the composition of judges, coordinators, organizers, and other wonderful people. I've communicated, consulted, and played with many of them, and I give them a 10 out of 10....

4. I've also played with and helped many newcomers, so I can also help with the "noob commission" (NC) - working with newcomers; I don't want to be left out (I'm already doing this in my clan and know what's what)...