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Offline Samurai
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#286
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Alex_R

By the way, going into such a Dragon Fly Hive with an external dwelling of bears on day 117 is a very risky move when on the next 1-2 days a scout hero with 2-5 bears could take it with the loss of a few goblins or other fodder from a newly purchased hero.
Especially since it was a horde, meaning there could have been 18 per stack, and then it would have been a clear loss. :confused:
I had no morale, and neither did the neutrals. But I had to take it exactly on day 117, because on the road there was a very strong blockade that you couldn't break through by day 121 without Wyverns, and you couldn't take the blockade (due to the weakness of scout heroes) or the Hive (because it was located in the sands) on day 121. I took it without checking the quantity, because given the dire situation I was in, forfeiting the game in case of a maximum stack was no big deal. And then my opponent helped too, having captured a couple of towns by that time, so I had options. :) Well, there were only 2 bears on day 121, the build on day 117 was 1, 2, 5 in the Citadel due to a complete lack of money (by the way, for the first time I played Barbarian with a modified setup, and there was no more money at all!). Saves will come later, as the game has been postponed and is unfinished.
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Offline Alex_R
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#287
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why bring up an example from offline mode... Elves are much more realistic; they can max out their consumption on turn two in Shades of Darkness, and other castles can do it under certain conditions as well.
... you can't upgrade Vampires, and having just advanced armor isn't enough; they definitely need a well-developed hero or artifacts + a shield... or maybe Mass Slow and Consume without an upgraded stack and not on grass....
in general, it's a rare case and only for THE.
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Offline Samurai
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#288
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Alex_R
Why bring up an example from offline mode? Elves are much more likely to get maximum conservation on week two in SoD, and other Castles can do it under certain conditions.
...you can't upgrade Vampires, and having just advanced armor isn't enough; there's definitely some good hero skill development or artifacts + a shield involved... or maybe Mass Slow and Conservation work without an upgraded stack and not on grassland....
In general, it's a rare case and only applies to TE.
I didn't understand what offline mode you're referring to. If you mean a saved game, then it's all online. I'm talking about TE because SoD and its Galtaran are deadly on week two, even for the Undead. In TE with the Necro patch, there are no hidden Vampire stacks, so the real number of Lord Vampires is 15. Even 12 is more realistic, and that's a tier 3 Conservation stack consisting only of Vampires with a hero who has basic armor. Which other Castle can take a tier 3 Conservation stack on day 121 without any losses, and if everything goes well, even the maximum, I might add, with Lords and without a single casualty?! The creatures in the Stronghold fall apart before 12 Lord Vampires. A skilled player, with a chain of Lord Vampires and Glaive Throwers on days 121-122, in a normal situation, already has enough resources to take the Undead Castle! But it all depends on the map. So, in TE, a rare case + poor speed only happens if there are absolutely no Conservation resources available or they are unattainable. In SoD, Galtaran with his skeletons can already control the maximum Conservation resources by the end of the first week!
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Offline Alex_R
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#289
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He3Hauka
On a SOD, Galthran and his skeletons are completely overwhelmed by the end of the first round!
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D
The same applies to GO on 111, so what?
P.S. If it weren't for the TE, I would be interested in looking at the saves of your games, but for now, I'm ending this pointless discussion for myself.
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Offline Wlk777
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#290
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He3Hauka
Here is an example, by the way, of me taking a level 3 conserve on 113 (TE version):

To all the highly respected fans of the wonderful game called TE: once again, I suggest you move to the appropriate section (because it exists) and hold your intelligent discussions there. Personally, I would be happy, honest to God; I think the moderators should gradually get them used to this. I'm tired of pointless arguments where one person is talking about SoD while the other implies TE. What next, shall we start bringing examples from Heroes 5 or the first games here? :confused:
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Offline Oelm
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#291
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Neznaika, what’s your nickname in the real world? Something like DC_Vasya?:D
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Offline Dirty_Player
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#292
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Everyone probably already understands who Neznayka is, but he has the right to remain anonymous, and there's nothing wrong with that, so let's keep it a secret. Regarding some kind of mass conflicts, it's even funny to read. Everyone understands that zombies and spirits are just garbage, not troops, but what do these mass conflicts have to do with real online games? :confused: Necropolis troops are skeletons, vampires, angels, wyverns, and necoconstructs. And there are often more of these troops in Necropolis than in other castles, which makes it quite overpowered. You're right about the speed of the low-tier units. Necropolis can have units with a speed of 4-5-6; it's not necessary to give every unit skeletons. There are imps, centaurs, and goblins that come with other units. And Galtran will be flying on an angel; surely we'll find a suitable unit for him by the second week. P.S. In TC-3, Necropolis is unbeatable!!!
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Offline Wlk777
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#293
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Dirty_Player

P.S. In TC-3, the Necromancer is virtually unbeatable!!!
Maybe with some Titans, but even then, it's not a sure thing.

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Dirty_Player

It's even funny to read about some kind of massive battles. Everyone understands that zombies and spirits are just trash, not troops, but what do these massive battles have to do with real online games? :confused: The Necromancer's troops are skeletons, vampires, angels, wyverns, and necoconstructs. And the Necromancer often has more of these troops than other factions, which makes him overpowered. You're right about the speed of the weaker units. The Necromancer can have units with 4-5-6 speed; it's not necessary to give every unit skeletons. There are imps, centaurs, and goblins that come with other units. And Galtran will be flying on an angel; by the second week, we'll probably find a "can" (referring to a powerful unit) for him.
Firstly, maps with a large number of Hives, drowned, and "cans" are not necessarily an absolute indicator. Secondly, the Necromancer practically has no strong troops; not only are the 2nd and 3rd level units weak, but vampires are also weak (if not handled skillfully in battle), liches can also be easily neutralized if desired, and dragons are definitely too weak for level 7:smile18:
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Offline Lider1
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#295
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My humble opinion: Necro is a strong town in SoD (haven't played them in HotA).

The strength of Necro lies in the huge number of raised skeletons + the converter: scout heroes, external dwellings, zombies, maybe wraiths, secondary skills.

Blue Necro (if spawned in the Dungeon) can certainly be a pain, especially if blocked by shooter guards.

I didn't have 500-600 skeletons by the second week (123-124). That's closer to the third week. But even so, a mediocre player like me sometimes cracked Dragon Utopias of the triple on the second.

My opinion: (for SM at least) Necro is most vulnerable on the second week. That's why you need to rush them right away (magic, archers, maybe Angel) — starting from 117.

If you didn't kill them by the second, then that's it! GG.

All IMHO.


PS: Regarding the argument, VLK offered to play Vika, let the match decide for you :smile02: up to 3 or 5 wins.
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Offline Wlk777
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#296
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Lider1
My humble opinion: Necro is a strong Castle in SoD (I haven't played them in TE).
Yeah, games on specific templates with a large number of objects and free troops seem to create a skewed impression of the Castles' strength, I see.
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Offline Dirty_Player
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#297
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Wlk777
Yeah, games based on specific templates with a large number of objects and free units create a somewhat skewed impression of the strength of the castles, I see.
But what difference does it make how strong the castle is? The main thing is that it works well on templates that everyone plays on: sm-ka, Jebus, 8mm6. For me, that's enough to consider it a strong castle. And if you play without restrictions, then it doesn't even make sense to discuss it, as far as I'm concerned...
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Offline Lider1
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#298
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Okay, fine. "Specific scenarios." I got the hint. Play a match, the same as in TC3, you play as Rampart or whoever you want, and the opponent plays as Necropolis. And that will settle it. (But the opponent must know how to play that faction. So you need to play against a strong player. If Vic agrees, that would be great :smile54: ) And there should be several games, the more trials (games), the more accurate the result.
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Offline Wlk777
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#299
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Lider1
Okay, "specific builds." I got the hint. Play a match, the same TC3, you play Rampart or whoever you want, and the opponent plays Necropolis.

And that will settle it.

(But the opponent must be able to play that Castle effectively. So, you need to play against a strong player. If Vik agrees, that would be great :smile54: )

And there should be several games, the more trials (games), the more accurate the result.
The only thing I'm afraid of is not vampires and skeletons, but my own "luck," when the most powerful stacks constantly freeze up at the most crucial moment :eek: , this is perhaps the only chance for Necropolis in TC3.

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Dirty_Player
What difference does the Castle's strength make? The most important thing is that it works well with the builds that everyone plays: sm-ka, Jebus, 8mm6. For me, that's enough to consider it a strong Castle. And if you play without restrictions, I don't think there's even a point in arguing...
But for me, for example, the strength of a Castle is determined not only by the fact that everyone plays with builds that are convenient for it. Okay, the argument is really pointless, but I'm always ready to prove that Necropolis units are weak in combat on TC3 ;)
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Offline Samurai
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#300
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Wlk777
To all the esteemed fans of this wonderful game, I once again suggest that you move to the appropriate section (and it exists) and engage in intelligent discussions there. I, for one, would be happy, I swear. I think the moderators should gradually get used to this. I'm tired of pointless arguments when one person talks about SoD and the other implies HoMM. Let's maybe start giving examples from Heroes 5 here, or from the first game? :confused:
Dear sir, if you had read the title and description of the topic carefully, there would be no mention of HoMM or SoD; it is necessary to talk about them here. By the way, I am talking about both SoD and HoMM (in case you haven't noticed that you are being watched), although of course, I talk more about HoMM.

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Wlk777

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For me, for example, the strength of a Castle is determined not only by the fact that everyone plays with templates that are convenient for it. Okay, the argument is really pointless, but I am always ready to prove that the Necropolis units are weak in battle on TC3 ;)
Allow me to ask, which specific template for the Necropolis do you consider inconvenient, other than TC3 (in which you will soon be proven wrong, although I am sure that your reference to "luck" will protect you in that case:)?). By the way, TC3 is the least played template out of the four (CM, 8mm, TC3, Jebus). Although this is just my personal opinion.
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Offline Wicc
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#301
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In TC3, mixed armies are used, so the full strength of the growth bonus doesn't really matter. Once, SAG gave me a map-arena for SoD, where you got a 5x native growth bonus, all spellbooks, and expert schools. Honestly, I got completely crushed by a Necropolis player with an Archmage and Sacrifice spell.
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