DISCUSSIONS on “Rules for online games in HoMM3 and formulas for calculating player rating.” — Online Tournaments

Wlk777

17 years ago

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It seems simple to me: the responsibility for proving unfair play should fall on the loser. We can create a separate thread for suspicions, although I suspect it will lead to arguments. In general, the loser has the right to not confirm the suspicion only if irrefutable evidence of cheating or rule violation is provided. You can suspect anything, but you should think twice before voicing it. IMHO.

In reply to Wlk777

Neoandy

17 years ago

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That's correct. If there's a problem, it needs to be solved. On the Portal, such a system has been implemented since the winter season, and the number of unconfirmed players has decreased significantly. Moreover, the statistics of uncredited wins for those who haven't fulfilled their obligations are visible. The reason for non-confirmation due to rating points is eliminated. http://dreamcatcher.metroland.ru/html/rating.htm

Wlk777

17 years ago

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Kash

Guys, let's figure out how to handle these confirmations, who owes what to whom, okay? Val, Vigo didn't confirm your game, so what, is that it? Just give it up? Don't play with him anymore! I don't understand why you're upset about one report. If he hadn't confirmed Pasha's game, would that have been a loss for him?
Let's move all this mess and everything else into the rules, okay.
Are you playing Heroes or making up your own rules?
That's all I have to say.

Seriously, let's just confirm losses whenever we feel like it. Let all sorts of smart alecks indirectly accuse us of cheating by not confirming, without even bothering to provide proof :( . And about Vigo - he's acting like a real jerk. I forgive his losses, but he's basically accusing me of cheating after losing a game. And then they write in other threads how great he is and what a cool player he is, it's just disgusting to read. :smile29:

In reply to Yakudza

злой_романтик

17 years ago

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I suggest adding a couple more small additions: 1) about penalties for a player who wins unfairly. I think the save files could serve as evidence. 2) About slander against the winner – if you can prove it, you can make accusations; if not, you should “keep quiet.” This is to prevent baseless accusations and arguments. It would be good to hear your opinions on my suggestions. I'm thinking that maybe we should even conduct a separate poll on this topic. If we approve it, there won't be all sorts of disputes about "confirming or not confirming."

In reply to злой_романтик

КостяN

17 years ago

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And in general, how is it possible to suspect someone of something, not confirm it, and then stay silent? :confused: This is unfair – not only to the winner (it's still unclear whether they cheated or played according to the rules), but also to other potential opponents of the "suspected" player. And if they are actually a cheater or something else, why stay silent?

Ибу ибуди - хуйдао муди - Шаг за шагом можно достигнуть цели (китайская мудрость)

Кто к нам с пером придёт, тот от пера и погибнет!:smile51:

In reply to КостяN

Oelm

17 years ago

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Before posting your suspicions on the forum, you can ask the player in a private message and ask them to explain their actions if they seem unclear for some reason (for example, I am always ready to comment on my saves). Secondly, it is worth consulting with 1-2 strong players, and if all this does not eliminate the suspicions at the root, then you can express yourself on the forum.

In reply to Yakudza

Дубровин Павел

17 years ago

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Dubrovin Pavel (Red, Fortress, Tazar, Tazar) def Chydozavr (Blue, Dungeon, Shakti, Shakti), 2sm4d(3), 1.2.1.

Please review my post #183. I have written everything correctly, in Russian.
The only thing is that the confirmation seems to have disappeared.

Let's make it simpler: if there is no refutation, the game will be counted as a win.
If there is a refutation, we will wait for the judges' verdict.

С истиной где-то рядом...

Лето 2010.

In reply to Дубровин Павел

Lider1

17 years ago

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Dubrovin Pavel

Let's make it simpler: if there's no refutation, the game is considered valid.
If there is a refutation, the decision will be made by the judges.

Actually, yes. That's a good idea.

But sometimes (even very often) it's interesting to read the version of the losing side; sometimes it's more interesting than the reports of the winners :) . And just reading excuses and justifications is fun!

Сейчас балуюсь этим https://vcmi.eu/download/
За то что нейтралы не бегают за единичкой, для меня это уже стоит того

In reply to Дубровин Павел

Alex_R

17 years ago

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Pavel Dubrovin

Let's make it simpler: if there is no rebuttal, the game is counted.
If there is a rebuttal, it goes to the judges' verdict.

Agreed! All reports that are not contested should be counted, provided both players are registered on HeroesWorld (to avoid the temptation of posting games with "dead souls").
But, to prevent the losing side from slacking off with the possibility of avoiding confirmation of the report and their own game description, introduce penalty points, for example.

In reply to Alex_R

КостяN

17 years ago

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I agree with all three posts above. I've been suggesting this for a while, but due to my lack of authority, I wasn't heard:mad:. But now that the discussion has started, I suggest creating a poll on this issue. Let it stay up for a couple of weeks or a month, and if most people vote "for" accepting all reports without refutation during that time, then we can convince the moderators (as they say in Ukraine: "Together, even a father is easier to beat":D). I can create it myself.

Added after 6 hours 34 minutes
In connection with the second identified and proven case of cheating in online games, a clear rule arises: how should they be punished:smile29:? What do you think about this?

Ибу ибуди - хуйдао муди - Шаг за шагом можно достигнуть цели (китайская мудрость)

Кто к нам с пером придёт, тот от пера и погибнет!:smile51:

In reply to КостяN

Ta Kotoraya...

17 years ago

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KostyaN

Given that this is already the second confirmed case of cheating in online games, a clear rule is needed: how should they be punished? :smile29: What do you think about this?

I think that for the first offense, cheaters should be banned from participating in games for a period of, say, 3 weeks or a month, without the right to play in tournaments for the next six months. (Maybe the person did it out of inexperience or stupidity - it happens with newcomers ;) ) If they correct their behavior afterwards, that's great, let them play! We are all for it...
For repeated cheating, a permanent ban is the only option!!

Если тебе не везёт в жизни, - играй в какую-нибудь другую игру:rolleyes:
Лидер клана "Из многих единое"

Приключения – это сплошные неприятности, только про них почему-то потом интересно вспоминать...

In reply to Ta Kotoraya...

КостяN

17 years ago

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Here's another idea: give them some kind of "anti-medal":D - let them be happy:smile04:. You could deduct a huge number of points in the rankings - especially in a permanent one. Or, if not an anti-medal, at least just a huge label: I CAN CHEAT - when playing against me, save every day!:)

P.S. Although I must admit:o, I cheat regularly... in single-player, testing the map after completing the game:D :D :D - by the way, this is also a good way to develop some game skills (fair ones!), in particular, with the help of infinite turns, you can quickly clear the entire map and practice a lot of difficult battles, which you either haven't had time to do in online mode, or haven't done correctly!

Ибу ибуди - хуйдао муди - Шаг за шагом можно достигнуть цели (китайская мудрость)

Кто к нам с пером придёт, тот от пера и погибнет!:smile51:

In reply to Yakudza

RAPER

17 years ago

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sorry for the off-topic

clearing the entire map, completing a bunch of difficult battles that I either didn't have time for or didn't do correctly in online mode!

- that's what makes offline mode beneficial=);)

I CAN CHEAT - when you play with me, I'll provide daily save files!

This could be used as a signature! Like a permanent one!! I think the creator could make something like that!;)

играю на уровне AI !!:smile32: ;)

In reply to Yakudza

ewgeniy

17 years ago

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The idea of using a "chugunok" (a derogatory term for a cheater) was already suggested – I agreed to ban Shadowman on SoY, who had been successfully cheating in Heroes 4 before. But how was I supposed to know? I don't even play Heroes 4. So, I think such measures should definitely be implemented. It's a shame no one listened to me back then.

Клан"Homo Homini":smile19: Полезные ссылки:smile01:

В. Уэйтс©

Но поскольку я нищий,
у меня лишь есть мечты.
Я разостлал свои мечты пред вашими ногами.
Ступайте бережно, ибо вы ступаете по моим мечтам.

временно ушел с форума, переодически заглядываю. кому нужен пишите в скайп ewgeniy1985. в аське 384385000 очень редко.

vbn

17 years ago

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Following discussions, the rules for seasonal online games will be updated regarding the procedure for confirming and accepting match reports:

1. After a match report is published on the forum, the winner is advised to send the link to this report to their opponent via ICQ for confirmation (it is recommended to save these logs).

2. If a player is unable to confirm the report in the corresponding thread for any reason, they must contact the seasonal game administrator and confirm the report by any other means (private message, ICQ, etc.).

3.1. If a player has outstanding debts in the form of unconfirmed reports about games they lost, all their subsequent reports will not be counted until the debts are settled.

3.2. If a player has not confirmed 1 report, and at the same time, a formal reason for non-confirmation is indicated (investigation of unfair play), reports about the victories of this player will continue to be counted.

Клан Homo homini

Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never faileth...