Posts from Amendment to section 5.2.1 of the Hv rules (regarding quick-cast spells). Auto-translated

today on the second week in a game with Mizrail, I broke through ГО 70 units with swamp without masslow and losses—you don't believe me, I can send saves. Dragon Utopia on the first is very much realistic ;)

How many times must it be repeated that isolated cases don't count? And saying that ГО is broken through easily on the 2nd week is NONSENSE. And send the saves, I'm interested to see.

How many times do you have to repeat that isolated cases don't count? And say that GO can be easily beaten in the 2nd week – that's nonsense. Share your saves, I'm curious to take a look.

Come on, why attack a player who is more experienced and speaks based on his own gameplay?
Don't you remember how you completed a map in 31 days in the VK8 tournament and called everyone cheaters? Don't jump to conclusions!!!

2 Wlk777 http://slil.ru/26515305
I just checked myself: I'll correct it – there were not 70 unique units, but 60 – but this doesn't change the essence – even if there were 80 or 90, the result would be the same.

Added after 31 minutes
As a compromise in this matter, I would suggest removing the restriction on using high-level spells against neutrals:
-there is no risk of encountering a chain or recurrent spell on the second level
-at the same time, the ability to resurrect, for example, can help in capturing dungeons and complex objects; let mages be not folders, but at least subfolders – targeted at capturing specific objects; also, allow the use of combat magic scrolls against neutrals. IMHO.

Why don't you move your discussion about breaking GO records, using canned strategies, and exploiting glitches to a separate thread? Here, please share your thoughts on how the removal of 5.2 will affect the gameplay.

As a compromise on this issue, I would suggest removing the restriction on using high-level spells against neutrals:

This is not prohibited by the current rules, so please pay attention :smile42:, I quote: Against neutral monsters, as well as against the computer (if it is present on the map), magic specialists of level 4 and Tant can use their specific spell without the above restrictions.

Damn, why attack a player who is more experienced and speaking based on their games?
Don't you remember how you finished the map in 31 days during the VK8 tournament and called everyone cheaters? Don't jump to conclusions!!!

To be honest, I sometimes get that temptation too :D (to call everyone who takes Dragon Utopia on week 2-3 or hits ГО cheaters) - but I fight that temptation)))). Regarding the subject: everyone is acting like such conservatives, they don't want to try something new... :) Anyway, as already mentioned, a good player will take a mage in folders in about 1 out of 10 cases - and more often, depending on circumstances or own "conflux" units.
Oh! I thought of how to phrase the survey question better: who would you take as a starting hero for Tower, Dungeon, etc., if rule 5.2 were removed:
a). newly-allowed:) mages,
b). miner, nelka, etc ("the old guard"),
c). I wouldn't play by such rules at all - or I'd start crossing out these "cheaters" immediately))))).

Wlk777:

Don't you take the Dragon Utopia on the first week? I haven't played with you personally, but it's extremely rare for ГО to be broken before the fourth week

Let's go in order:
1) Taking the Dragon Utopia on the first week on a small map—I did it once, minimum for Necropolis; well, if you try hard, maybe even on the second. But this requires a very favorable set of circumstances.
2) Actually, we've played together twice, one of which we didn't finish. I think you should remember.
3) Well, to call things by their real names, in games with weak players, it is extremely rare for ГО to be broken before the fourth week. Agreed. But if the question is whether it's possible to break ГО on the 2nd if played correctly, then the answer is—in about 15-20% of cases it really is possible; although it's not a matter of percentages here, but rather that it's not such a rarity and much more than 5%.

And finally: why the hell talk about a topic that you, Britva, cannot figure out.
The point of what I wrote is not that I necessarily break the guard on the 3rd or second week, but that it is always possible to do so!
Do you feel the difference? Either you have to be a complete idiot to take this literally, or someone completely disconnected from Heroes. But maybe I can still explain that somehow. However, you wrote that you looked at all my reports and said as if there had never been anything in my games like what I wrote (referring to breaking the guard on 2-3). And for some reason, even without looking at the reports, I remember at least 2 games where I killed the guard on the 3rd—with Semom-56 and Vova-Hermit. And who are you after that—a vile liar, or a stupid narcissistic peacock who considers himself a mega-player, but doesn't even pass for an average one. And don't use your Player Rating as a fig leaf; you will never have a chance against a strong player.

Guys, let's keep it civil, or I'll start deleting posts:mad:
As I understand it, this thread was created separately from the rules discussion to add a poll to it, and I see that 50% of the posts are already about taking or not taking the "Utop," breaking the "GO":smile54:
If the topic is relevant, create a new thread, and there's no need to argue with foam at the mouth, respect yourselves and those who are reading this.
Happy New Year!

Yes, yes, please delete the off-topic posts from this thread, and at the same time, remove point 5.2 from the rules. All arguments can be read again in the revised first post.

Yes, yes, delete the off-topic posts from this thread, and also remove point 5.2 from the rules. Everyone, please read the revised first post again.

What does "delete" mean?:) It seems like there are 8 against and 4 in favor)) Or are some votes counted for multiple options?:D

That happened. In the past, Guardians of Order were Hydras. I don't remember how many there were or if they had an improved skill set. Oelm tried to attack them on level 2, but it didn't work, and he attacked them on level 3. He mostly used magic to attack, and he was playing as Dungeon. Luna developed very well at that time. When he attacked them on level 2, I think, with a Harpy, I didn't even understand what was happening...

In my opinion, besides playing as Conflux, players won't choose mages as their main hero. And, as mentioned above, they will only use them for quick wins.

Solmir is a good mage, but in maxed-out Dragon Utopia it's hard for him... Magic doesn't work on dragons... Thanks for the game

Mages don't rule and are furthermore nerfed by the rules

Mages don't rule and besides, they are nerfed by the rules

A bad dancer... something is getting in the way ;)

in our last game with bRitvo4kA I actually had a mage and bRitvo4kA was whining "mom, his position is already better" :)))
I had an elemental summon there ;)

and generally, Dragon Utopia is taken by everyone.. I really liked it when they took Dragon Utopia using the "Sacrifice" magic

What are you so afraid of mages on the second week for? You shouldn't just sit around and do nothing. But seriously, a mage on day 121 is practically an overpowered force, BUT – it's a gamble, and both sides risk something, because a mage on day 3 will defeat a warrior in 90% of cases, as he will be firing 5+ angels for 4-5 rounds, while he will be taken down to zero in 2 rounds. This is a similar gamble to Kir' vs. Shakti: either the supreme one will kill him, or he will have trouble catching the runner later; or castle vs. swamp: if you don't kill Tazara with a small unit, you will break all the spears on his armor later. It all depends on whether there will be a quick advance on day 2 – and this already depends on how the generator distributes things, and it is not always fast, especially if the roads are slow. So, you can add some randomness and intrigue – I don't think mages will become more cheesy than Shakti. After a couple of cons, he will be ready to face anyone on day 121.

I would like to raise this interesting issue again (see post 1). Since the vote, more than a season has passed; perhaps someone has changed their mind, or maybe someone voted hastily at first. Therefore, I ask the respected moderators to put it up for another vote (by name and without an "it doesn't matter" option).
As an argument, I want to cite the number of victories in the winter season for the Tower: 29%, which shows that this Castle is the weakest of all. Perhaps excluding point 5.2 will give it a boost, and people will start choosing Mages as Heroes. Solmyr will somewhat revitalize the Tower and add balance. Choosing a Mage as a Hero is very risky because you are unlikely to get logistics throughout the game, and there will be major problems in Dragon Utopia, etc.