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In reply to Alex_R
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#31
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Alex_R

Question!
How does this rating system account for the fact that at the beginning, everyone has the same rating, and it's advantageous to initially target weaker players to maximize points, and then play against stronger opponents?
You won't gain much from playing against weak players. You can play 50 games and reach a point where you won't gain more than 1 point from weak players. After that, you'll still have to play against players of equal skill. Alternatively, you can play 15 games against players of equal skill and achieve the same result:rolleyes:
In reply to StickyFingaz
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#32
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Oh, these rankings...

In my opinion, no ranking system can claim to objectively determine a player's "true" skill level.

I'm willing to accept any system, but what worries me most is whether whoever undertakes the ranking process will stop halfway through.

As for awarding Prize points from tournament results in the Ranking, I am subjectively and categorically against it; let me explain my position:

I agree with the respected Wic that a "random" player sometimes becomes a tournament winner. And with their victory, they instantly jump to the top of the ranking, receiving, for example, 900 points. It just doesn't make sense.

Portal, Bai, in their rankings, do not take tournament prizes into account, and there's probably a reason for that.

If it were up to me, I would never include tournament prizes in the Ranking.

I would separate them:
A separate Seasonal Ranking
Separate Tournament achievements, with tournament games counting towards the Seasonal Ranking, and nothing more, without any additional bonuses.
С истиной где-то рядом...





Лето 2010.
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#33
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StickyFingaz

Wow, you even found the Chess Federation of Namibia =)))
This website features an online Elo calculator.
You used the Zone Rating Calculator by AoR_Trillian, developed in 2000. I couldn't find any information online about it being used for rating calculations, so its scientific basis is questionable. I doubt it uses verified Elo formulas. I suggest using the Elo rating system as the most objective and suitable option, based on scientific research. By the way, I just looked at the calculation formula on Heroes of Might and Magic – it looks very similar to the Elo rating system.
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In reply to bRitvo4kA
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#34
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I support the opinion of the esteemed Wic that a "random" player can sometimes become the winner of a Tournament. And with their victory, they instantly soar to the top of the ranking, receiving, for example, 900 points. It's not logical, after all.
Give an example of at least one tournament on HeroesWorld where a "random" or weak player became the winner
Я ламер и играть не умею, нах!:smile33:
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#35
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In the Elo rating system, it is accepted that the transition from one class of play to the next occurs approximately every 200 rating points. If the difference between two players is 200 points, the stronger player wins with a probability of 76%; if the difference is 400 points, the probability will be 91%. A difference of 600 points means the stronger player wins almost always (97%). If the ratings of both players are equal, the probability of either one winning is 50%. These probabilities, of course, do not take into account a player's current form on a given day. At the lowest class level, the Elo rating more often gives incorrect predictions of results, as players of this class make unpredictable mistakes more frequently.

The less often a chess player loses, the more accurately their rating can be assessed. The most accurate rating can be obtained from tournaments where players of roughly equal strength compete. The Elo rating system is based on the assumption that the strength of each chess player can be represented as a probabilistic variable following a normal distribution. The calculation of a specific player's rating based on the results of a tournament is founded on comparing the number of points they scored with the expected number of points predicted based on their rating. If, at the end of the tournament, the number of points scored turns out to be greater than the predicted value, that player's rating increases. If, at the end of the tournament, the number of points scored turns out to be less than the predicted value, that player's rating decreases.

The most accurate rating can be obtained from tournaments where players of roughly equal strength compete - we don't have those.

The Elo rating system is based on the assumption that the strength of each chess player can be represented as a probabilistic variable following a normal distribution - well, go ahead and explain the scientific basis to me then =)

The calculation of a specific player's rating based on the results of a tournament is founded on comparing the number of points they scored with the expected number of points predicted based on their rating - will you predict how many points a player will score?

If, at the end of the tournament, the number of points scored turns out to be greater than the predicted value, that player's rating increases
Well, the games played here are mostly seasonal ones. What do we do with those?

I'm perfectly familiar with my version, I know it will work great for HeroesWorld. Haha, well, let's just adopt god knows what again, and we'll end up with the same old story, just from a different angle...
In reply to invisible
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#36
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invisible
Give an example of at least one tournament on HeroesWorld where a "random" or weak player became the winner?


I have already expressed my opinion, and I am adding to it:
The winner of a tournament can be not the "strongest" but the "luckiest", and giving the "winner" a head start of nearly 1000 points would simply be unfair to their competitors, who, of course, may be lower in "skill level" but that should not be expressed as a 1000-point advantage.
С истиной где-то рядом...





Лето 2010.
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#37
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The links provide clear instructions; I believe we should stick to a method that has been proven effective by time and millions of users, rather than relying on the opinion of a single person.
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In reply to Дубровин Павел
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#38
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Dubrovin Pavel
I have already expressed my opinion, and I will add:
The winner of the tournament may not be the "strongest," but the "luckiest," and it would simply be unfair to reward the "winner" with a 1000-point advantage over their competitors, who may be lower in "level" but whose advantage should not be expressed in a 1000-point difference.
These are just words, and I am hinting at real past tournaments. Therefore, I repeat the question: give me at least one tournament where a lucky "weak" player became the winner?! I am not playing in tournaments right now, but I know how difficult it is to win, even with the factor of randomness. Why should the winner be ranked lower than someone who has played a hundred games against beginners, is in position #1, and is enjoying life?
Я ламер и играть не умею, нах!:smile33:
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#39
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I think points should be awarded for tournaments, simply because tournament matches are generally more challenging than practice matches. And you won't be able to choose "easy" opponents there. The only question is how many points to award.
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#40
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Everything is clearly explained in the links; I believe we should use a method that has been tested by time and millions, not just one person.
I don't understand. Was your rating calculated based on it? Or is it a hassle to play according to my suggestion? I agree, it's easy to beat weak players, and if you also win in ranked seasons... that's awesome. But here, some "guy" is just showing off and asserting his rights. Go ahead, try to win in the ranking... it's a hassle...

I'll repeat the questions:
The most accurate rating can be obtained based on tournaments in which players of approximately equal strength play.
Do we have such tournaments?
The Elo rating system is based on the assumption that the strength of each chess player can be represented as a probabilistic variable, following a normal distribution.
Its scientific basis is very questionable.
Well, explain the scientific basis to me then =)
The calculation of a specific player's rating based on the results of a tournament is based on comparing the number of points they scored with the expected number of points, predicted based on their rating.
Will you predict how many points a player will score?
If, according to the results of the tournament, the number of points scored turns out to be greater than the predicted value, then the rating of that player increases.
Well, mostly ranked games are played here. What should we do with them?
Everything is clearly written in the links.
MEGA LOL. It's all in English =). Translate it, and we'll understand; some people here might not understand English.
In reply to Wicc
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#41
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Wicc: Exactly. Just if the number 1000 seems too high, it can be reduced. And the rating on the bay isn't very good; at the top, there are only certain players, while different players participate in role-playing games.
If you don't take tournament games into account, then at the top, there will still be "experts in playing against beginners." And what is easier to win: a tournament or defeat about 30 players who are noticeably weaker than you? If tournament points are not taken into account, then this rating will only be a SMALL improvement over what already exists.
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#42
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If tournament points are not taken into account, then this rating will only be a SMALL improvement over what exists.
StickyFingaz:
For example, with a rating of 1850, a victory over a player with a rating of 1450 will only bring 1 point.
Currently, it is not beneficial for TOP players to play against beginners, as after about 50 points, Razor will receive a negligible amount of points for winning against them. For example, 16 victories over Kostyan will be equal to 1 victory over Aldegyr, and he still needs to be defeated =)

By the way, I just tried Elo. It really is more beneficial for Razor - with it, he will receive 2-3 times more points for winning against players with a low rating than with my option =) Let's draw conclusions...
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#43
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No one argues that winning against a beginner or a player with a low rating should award fewer points. The point is that if you are suggesting an alternative that is as objective as possible, you should use proven and widely used formulas, not ones of unknown origin. As an alternative, I suggested ELO. Provide evidence and links where your formulas have been used. Just because you didn't study English in school doesn't mean anyone is to blame.
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In reply to bRitvo4kA
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#44
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I don't think it's necessary to resort to personal attacks; it's already clear who will "suffer" from the new changes. I just wanted to say that tournament games are much more important, complex, and require more responsibility. And it would be fairer to take this into account in the ranking.

As for how much harder it is to defeat Aldheir compared to Kostyan, that's still debatable.

P.S. Vitalik is definitely harder to defeat, though.
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#45
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It's not anyone's fault that you didn't study English in school.
Well, I know English pretty well. I just don't feel like translating; you translate it, and everyone else will appreciate it too.

Dude, maybe you're blind; I'll write it in bigger letters.

ANSWER MY QUESTIONS