Posts from Evaluating archers.

Archers... hmm... it's thanks to them that battles are won against huge hordes of uncontrolled units. I'll try to highlight and rate the ranged units on a 5-point scale.

Castle.
1) Archers. Good Castle units; shooting twice, of course, helps, otherwise it wouldn't be so great. Defense is very weak. 4 points.
2) Fanatics. Low health, enemy towers constantly kill them when you attack. No resurrection, for example. So, a two-week increase in level 5 warriors is lost. There is no penalty in melee combat; usually, it doesn't come to that. There are better units in the Castle that can deal damage. 2 points.

Rampart.
3) Great Elves. Double attack. You can say they are 50% improved archers. Good units. 4 points.

Stronghold.
4) Orcish Leaders. Not very strong, health... maybe for an archer, but for a level 3 unit, the damage is also low. I don't really believe in their power. 2 points.
5) Cyclops Kings. I rarely use their wall-breaking ability, but level 6 archers are interesting. Health and damage are average, but the cost is clearly too high due to this "optional" ability. 2 points.

Fortress.
6) Lizard Warriors. The only ranged unit of the faction and the only support for shooting from long distances. But, as follows from the specifics of the Fortress, defense should be greater than or equal to attack, but not the other way around. Good defense and damage, health - all this is pleasing. Maybe my opinion is subjective (this is my favorite castle), but these are some of the best archers. And something tells me that it will defeat an archer one-on-one. 4 points.

Dungeon.
7) Evil Eye. I am skeptical about the ability of ranged units to deal full damage in melee combat; they should not do that. An average unit. 2 points.
8) Medusa Queen. "I am skeptical about the ability of ranged units to deal full damage in melee combat; they should not do that." (:) D. Petrification does not give the Medusa any special powers; damage and health are average. 2 points.

Inferno.
9) Magogs. Not a bad unit, especially due to the fire ball. The only ranged unit in the faction, so it is valuable, but a ranged unit will most likely defeat it one-on-one. 3 points.

Tower.
10) Master Gremlins. ... I would like to remain silent, but... no, I'd rather stay silent... no, I'll say it. By acquiring ranged attack, they completely lose their already weak melee attack. And hundreds of these green little monsters are just for amusement. In melee combat, there is, to put it mildly, nothing to fear from them...
1 point.
11) Archmages. Good units: damage, health, characteristics, no penalty at the same time. And it also reduces the cost of using magic. This is twice as effective for cheap spells. They are very good. 5 points.
12) Titans. I can't even bring myself to call level 7 creatures ranged units. It shouldn't be that way in my opinion. Although, if you think about it, they aren't ranged units anyway, so one ranged unit of this level won't hurt. As usual, there is no penalty in melee combat, speed, a large amount of health and levels, the highest of all factions when blessed. I won't even mention that magic affecting the mind does not work on them. Blindness will not work. I give the highest rating, and not because they are so strong, they are level 7, a couple of traits stand out, no... The main thing is a very high-quality synthesis of the unit's skills and characteristics. 5 points.

Necropolis.
13) Mighty Liches. This is a separate conversation. A combination of damage and acceptable health. Cloud of Death, which acts almost like a fire ball... makes this unit a good guardian of the undead legions. 4 points.

Conflux.
14) Storm Elementals. You can talk a lot about this castle, but I don't like it. Because there is no gradation of power. In a certain scenario, Storm Elementals can defeat a Magma Elemental. Levels are not clearly defined. Naturally, they are the strongest creatures of level 2, the damage is simply unreal, especially when blessed, health, speed... There is no penalty in melee combat. 4 points.
15) Ice Elementals. Also a ranged unit, but not very good compared to similar units at the same level; the speed is not very good, actually. I would prefer Great Elves. Moreover, there is a penalty in melee combat. 2 points.

Now let's talk about uncontrolled units.
16) Hobbit. There is little benefit from luck, to be honest. Otherwise, it is a copy of a Gremlin, only the defense seems to be twice as bad. 1 point.
17) Sniper. Naturally, the unit is good because it shoots without penalty. But I want to think about whether it is worth the money. 400 gold is not lying on the road, and the health is very low. I'll digress and talk about the "Clash of Dragons" chronicles. Oh, I had a lot of trouble constantly reviving them... 15 units. The most ordinary "Explosion" with damage of about 600 units, I consider this to be almost the minimum damage. And 40 of them disappear in an instant...
But the shooting is worthy of all praise, as is the damage. 3 points.
18) Wizards. I'm starting the conversation with the same thing again. Is it worth the money? In the "Lords of the Elements" chronicles, I also had a lot of trouble reviving these 30 HP units. With one arrival at the enemy castle, you can immediately lose 4-5 units. And if there are more rounds during the siege? And they cost 750 gold. On the other hand, they give useful spells, for the entire army: either friendly or hostile. There is no penalty in melee combat, but I think that if they get close, they won't have anything special, because in melee combat, you will already be fighting back! It is not quite clear what level this creature is (level 5 or 6, it seems to cost like level 6, but the health and damage are level 5). 3 points.

With this assessment, as well as according to my own principle, I assigned points in accordance with the main parameter for me in the game - balance. That is, the correspondence of level, characteristics, abilities, and "decent!" cost. It is possible to create such a rating in which I will still present 17 places, and in case of a tie in points, I will choose the more acceptable one from the alternative choices.

Rating of the best ranged units.

1) Titans.
2) Archmages.
3) Great Elves.
4) Archers.
5) Lizard Warriors.
6) Mighty Liches.
7) Storm Elementals.
8) Magog.
9) Sniper.
10) Wizard.
11) Orcish Leaders.
12) Fanatics.
13) Evil Eye.
14) Medusa Queen.
15) Cyclops Kings.
16) Ice Elementals.
17) Master Gremlins.
18) Hobbit.

That's it... :)

Added 18 minutes ago

If I forgot someone, I will fix it!

I forgot Beholders, or rather, the Eye

5) Cyclops Kings. I rarely use their wall-breaking ability, but the 6th-level archers are interesting. Their health and damage are average, but the cost is clearly too high due to this "optional" ability. 2 points.

I disagree:
1. As 6th-level warriors, they are not much worse than others (if they are worse at all). Having a large number of them is much better than having any other 6th-level unit.
2. Wall-breaking can be very useful, especially if there is still a free slot(s) in the army.

10) Master Gremlins. ... I would like to remain silent, but... no, it's better to remain silent... no, I will say. By acquiring a ranged attack, they completely lose their already weak melee attack. And hundreds of these green monsters are only for amusement. In melee combat with them, there is, to put it mildly, nothing to be afraid of...

Again, I disagree; these weak units are very useful at the beginning of the game, especially for destroying neutrals.

I disagree with something else, but I will write it later.

I disagree:
1. As level 6 units, they aren't much weaker than others (if they are weaker at all). Having a large number of them is much better than having any other level 6 unit.
2. Destroying walls can be very useful, especially if there is still a free slot(s) in the army.

Everyone has their own priorities. I would prefer them over many units of the same level, especially those that can fly.

Again, I disagree, these weak units are very useful at the beginning of the game, especially for destroying neutrals.

I didn't think about that, I agree with you on this, yes, at the beginning of the game, and only at the beginning...

I disagree with something else, but I'll write it later.

That's great, we are all looking for answers to questions, and the truth is born in disputes.:)

2 Server
I will immediately disagree or agree on the topic:

Castle
1. Archers – a weak unit. They always die and die at the wrong time. They deal no damage and have a short range.
2. Zealots – they have decent HP... if there are archers, towers will target them first... + you can use a pike formation for 2 turns – they are expendable...

Rampart.
1. No complaints. There is nothing to criticize... truly a good unit. Especially among melee units.

Stronghold.
1. A very good unit for taking down groups. Normal growth rate. Average stats. The same "human" archers are not a problem for them, although for some reason, they cost 4, and these cost 2... - that's not right ))))
2. Cyclops... Oh, if only there were crystal mines... right at the beginning... I disagree with the opinion about their special ability... The damage is huge!... HP is average... but the price... 20 crystals is a lot, but it's worth it... Again, I disagree with the author... It's just that this unit is for a specific strategy... and we can't understand that... I, personally, haven't met anyone who would take Cyclops instead of Bears, but, to be honest, after thinking about it, I tried this tactic... - and I liked it )))... PS... Bears are not bad, of course, but... they have their advantages )))

Fortress.
1. The Marksman is like a castle... I wouldn't advise prioritizing it and getting stuck on it... but, considering the archers of this castle, the assessment is accurate... Very strong attack, a unit that is difficult to defeat... + no one pays attention to it... )))

Dungeon.
1. No, I understand... The author of the article gives solid fours to garbage... and simply destroys good units morally... I will only refer to the fact that, besides the swamp, the person probably hasn't seen anything else... Eyes – pure tanks... this is a unit that doesn't care whether it fights in melee or ranged combat... it is equal to a level 3 infantry unit... and why they made it a ranged unit is a small bonus... 5 points... (except for the cost...)
2. Medusas... Archers that win battles... Archers that are part of the central segment of the army... and they get 2 points?... ))) another 5...

Inferno.
1. Imps!!! Good archers, but Magogs really interfere with your army in battles... (constantly spending the first turn casting anti-fire magic is a pain...) I haven't seen anyone in their right mind who would destroy their own army with their own units... (the dilemma is that skipping turns is not a pleasant thing...) So, it's worth separating Imps and Magogs....

Tower.
1. After these phrases, there is simply nothing to say... Sir, pay attention to their growth rate and answer me: what, besides Goblins, are you going to use to mine resources at the beginning???!!!... this unit is not designed to destroy hordes of devils, as you apparently think...
2. No questions about the mages.... it's true...
3. Titans... yes, there is nothing to say - weak... A unit that doesn't deserve to be called a level 7 unit... A level 7 unit should not be the seventh in terms of strength... The Titan is the weakest unit among the last ones + its cost... 2 points....

Necropolis.
1. Archliches... A cloud that doesn't deal damage to its own units - just great... Damage - excellent... price - excellent... )))

Conflux.
1. The best archers... Storm Elves have huge damage, a huge amount of HP, and a huge defense stat... and this is level 2!!!... 10 points out of 5.... This is the best archer... + amazing growth rate...
2. Ice Elves are a little weaker... But they are also a little tougher... 7 points out of 5...

... Sorry if I offended anyone...

Lurk

With this rating, as well as by my own principle, I assigned points in accordance with the parameter that is most important to me in the game - balance. That is, the correspondence of level, characteristics, skills, and a "worthy!" cost.

Read this phrase and let's continue the conversation.;)

1. Archery are wafer units. They always die, and they die where they aren't supposed to. No damage at all. Short range for a straight arrow.

Two times 2.5 points with an attack of 6 units is not damage to you? They die, sure, but in my understanding, archers should be deadly in attack and helpless in defense.

30 Hp is not "decent" :D
Towers, by the way, shoot at whoever. That's the most annoying part. A couple of times at archers, then at shooters. On the next turn, vice versa.
To make a couple of steps with halberdiers, you always have to think about whether this will cause completely unnecessary aggression from the defending opponent toward you. You could lose your halberdiers in no time, and such losses are completely unacceptable against the computer.

Rampart.
1. No complaints. Nothing to pick on... truly a good unit. Especially among dervishes.

It's more than strange that elves are good, but shooters are wafers.;) Although growth matters here.

Stronghold.
1. A very good warrior for wiping out stacks. Normal growth. Average characteristics. The same "human" archers aren't a hindrance to them, although for some reason they get a 4 and these get a 2........ - not right ))))

The levels are different after all. I consider orcs to be lousy shooters. It's worth checking in practice or mentally: most likely even an ordinary elf will wipe out an orc chief or, at least, won't lose to him. The elf has an advantage over upgraded orcs in everything except health, and so +1 attack +1 defense +1 speed +0.5 damage. There is absolutely no reason to give them a 4. And two, excuse me, is just right.

2. Cyclopes... OH, if only there were.... crystal mines )))).... right at the beginning... I disagree with the opinion about their special ability... Damage is wild!... HP is average... but the price... 20 crystals is a lot, but it's worth it.... Again... I disagree with the author... Simply this unit is for GO... and we can't understand that... I personally haven't met people who took cyclopes instead of bears, but, to be honest, after thinking about it, I tried this tactic.... - liked it ))).... P.S. Bears aren't garbage, of course, but.... they have their own pluses )))

Usually even after a month, I have more monsters in my army than cyclopes.:D Well, that's just how it is... :)
There's absolutely no point in going to break walls; I don't go for them. My unloved orcs and cyclopes attack from a distance, storm birds with haste fly over the walls - they attack enemy shooters, then, on the next turn, return to their place. If you know heroes well, you understand how all this happens. Then I just wait until the melee units lazily come out of the castle (and holes in the enemy walls, by the way, will be completely misplaced here, as they will give them more exits from the "castle trap"). No matter how you look at it, a castle is a cage from which it's very difficult to regroup your troops for close combat if the kingdom's shooters are lost.

Dungeon.
1. No, well I understand everything... The comrade who wrote the article gives solid fours to crap..., and simply destroys good units morally... Beholders are pure tanks... this is a unit that doesn't care whether it fights in close or own-range combat... it's equal to 3rd level melee units... and why they made it a shooter - small bonus... 5 points... (except for the cost...)

Maybe I underestimated the beholders slightly, yes, possibly they could be given such a score... although 5 is a bit much. Simply, playing as Dungeon, I got the impression—no offense to fans of this Castle—of complete incompetence; sorry again for such words. Regardless of army size, I didn't feel confident. In none of the units do I see characteristics that can strongly influence the course of battle. Except Black Dragons; with a mage hero and these creatures in one slot, you can just constantly rain Armageddon on the enemy and fly back and forth from melee units. And not fear enemy magic or a hero's strike, as in 4.
Exactly except for the cost: a "tank" for such a price with damage of 4 points? I'm ready to give 3 points and agree that they are better than orcs.:D

2. Medusas... Shooters who win battles... Shooters who are part of the central segment of the army... and they get 2 points?... ))) another 5...

I could have given three, but the amount of ammunition killed it. Defending a castle was tough several times. Apparently, in their own castle, they aren't issued wagons, only tents or ballistas (I don't remember exactly).

Inferno.
1. Goggs!!! Good shooters, but Magoggs really interfere in your army's battles... (constantly spending the first turn casting anti-fire is brutal...) I haven't seen a single person in their right mind who would be willing to destroy their own army with their own units... (the dilemma is that skipping turns is not pleasant...) So it's worth separating Goggs and Magoggs....

Here I am before you. The one who destroyed his own armies with his own magoggs when it was worth it. Moreover, targets around receive 50% damage, so there's nothing super scary about it. Goggs are just too slow to take.
As you said, "constantly spending the first turn casting anti-fire is brutal"(c), a serious player wouldn't even think of that. To really hit someone in your own army, you need many magoggs, and therefore the army must be substantial. And losing a couple of devils out of 25 doesn't scare me for the cause. But, naturally, you are right - this skill would act on infernal legions like cloud of death acts on undead.:)

Tower.
1. After these phrases, there's simply nothing to say... Sir, please look at their growth and answer my question: what else, besides gremlins, do you intend to use to gather resources at the beginning???!!!... this unit is not intended for destroying crowds of devils, as you apparently decided...

Look at the post slightly above where I answered another forum member's questions. Only for capturing mines at the start, and then they are wiped out instantly. Unlike Halberdiers. You can't even use gremlins as "meat". In one word - shooters for 5 minutes.

3. Titans... yes, nothing to say - wafers... A unit not worthy of being called 7th... A seventh unit should not be seventh by principle... Titan is the weakest unit among the last + its cost... 2 points....

Here I fundamentally disagree. They are not wafers.:D (oh, I liked that word from you). Highest maximum damage for level 7? Highest health level for level 7? and of course... IMMUNITY TO MIND MAGIC... I bet that when attacking an army with 30 titans behind walls, they wanted to blind them, but it didn't work. And as I wanted to, I had to receive these shooting slaps of enormous power, and if you go into melee - it will just level you. Only "Explosions" seemed effective against them, which spent a lot of mana, magic turns, and hit 5-6 titans per turn. And you need to have the mana, plus the enemy has plenty of soldiers besides... they sit in the castle... they shoot... You are wrong, pure five points; one question: should they have been made shooters? Answer - yes, at least for variety.

Conflux.
1. Best shooters... Storm Elementals have huge damage, huge amount of HP and a huge defense parameter... and this is 2nd level!!!... 10 points out of 5.... This is the best shooter... + wild growth...

I gave them a 4 because they don't correspond to the spirit of the second level. Balance is shaken, although later in this castle it is more than smoothed over by ice and magma elementals. And most importantly - these are elementals and cannot be resurrected!!!!!:mad: This changes everything, and there are fewer and fewer of them from battle to battle...

2. Slightly weaker than Ice Elementals... But they are also slightly heavier... 7 points out of 5...

Regarding Ice Elementals, you noticed correctly - even worse than storm, although the level is supposedly higher. Again balance is broken. Moreover, I think that Evil Eyes, whom you awarded 5 points, are much better. Especially since "these are elementals and cannot be resurrected!!!!!:mad: This changes everything, and there are fewer and fewer of them from battle to battle..." (c)

... Sorry if I offended...

No offense taken, you just referred to the wrong thing, especially since this is my subjective opinion.

I will only refer to the fact that besides swamp, apparently, the person has seen nothing...

In reality, I am a fan of Heroes with 8 years of experience (mostly the third one) and probably know what I'm talking about. Although I agree that in some places my personal preferences for one race or another slip through, but overall, I think everything was quite objective and reasoned.

I believe that the best and most useful ones (in terms of price and stat increase, especially if you're playing as a Jello!) are High Elves.

I believe that the best and most useful units (in terms of price and stats, especially if you're playing as Elves!) are the High Elves.

Please provide your reasoning.
Also, it can be argued that archers are better than elves due to their stats... or that Cyclops have more damage... so there are always debates and comparisons.
And it's not "High" but Noble (or perhaps "Greater" in other translations?) ;).

Yes, in the gold edition, they are called high-level. And I like the jellyfish because of their petrification ability, although this is their advantage as melee units, not ranged units. In general, I prefer ranged units without a penalty to melee combat. We need to identify the most "efficient" ranged units, i.e., those with the best ratio of stats to cost.

Tower.
10) Master Gremlins. ...I'd rather stay silent, but... no, I'll speak. By acquiring ranged attack, they completely lose their already weak melee attack. And hundreds of these green monstrosities are just for show. In melee combat against them, there's nothing to be afraid of...
1 point.
11) Archmages. Good combat units: damage, health, stats, no penalty at the same time. And they also reduce the cost of casting spells. This is doubly effective for cheap spells. They are very good. 5 points.

Allow me to disagree with you! I'm even outraged!
I understand that the conclusions are based on games against the computer?

Gremlins in online games, for the Tower faction with a 1-1-1 upgrade, are indispensable creatures! In my opinion, the rating is 5.
And Archmages are rarely used because of the need to build a Library for the upgrade. (usually, a Tower is built first, and then a Library)
In my opinion, the rating is -3.

Regarding Storms. Their damage is 2-8, which naturally makes them the best ranged units. But unfortunately, there is a penalty in melee combat (it says 2-7 in the code and there is no penalty, this is an error)

3. Titans... well, there's not much to say - they're weak... A unit not worthy of being called a 7th-level unit... The seventh-level unit shouldn't be the seventh weakest... The Titan is the weakest unit among the latest ones, plus its cost... 2 points...

I read this and fell off my chair laughing!!! :D
TITANS ARE AWESOME!!! And against the AI, they're perfect!! :smile40:

Yes, the Titans are really cool. If they had a penalty to melee combat, I would agree with **Lurk**. But as it is, I disagree. In terms of ranking, the Titans are in third place after the Archangels and the Champions of Darkness.

Hey everyone! In my opinion, the best archers are the High Elves. Their price, quality, and stat increase satisfy me. Archmages? - too expensive. Liches? - I think they have too little HP... Titans? - too expensive... and I don't really consider them anyway. Cyclops Kings? - perhaps expensive, but they are worth it. Hmm... so, after thinking about it, the best are Cyclops Kings and High Elves.

You can reliably build Elves within the first week, regardless of the difficulty level, and upgraded Cyclops by the end of the month.

I absolutely agree with you, Feanor.

In my opinion, the best archers are the High Elves, followed by Liches. In the Castle, archers are usually good; a stack of them typically deals more damage than a stack of Monks (until they get hit by something powerful ^^). I can't really evaluate Gremlins because I almost never play as Fortress, but Medusas are the worst, in my opinion.