Tactics and strategy in Heroes of Might and Magic V. — General

Mdance

17 years ago

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I'd like to add my two cents to everything said above. It's a purely theoretical point, but it's regularly confirmed in practice.

Logistics will give you an advantage in resources, artifacts, and levels, yes. But they didn't mention that with Skilled Education, the level advantage translates into a huge advantage in stats. You can ask those who play online often – how do they feel about, say, an Argath with a Logistics specialization? The answer is clear: it's hard to outpace her, both in levels and just on the map.

Now, about having two schools of magic.
"You won't have time to cast everything in battle" – that's a silly statement. You need to combine the schools of magic so that you can cast spells.
Specifically – the Necromancer. Darkness + Summoning is an excellent choice. At the beginning of the battle, mass-cast spells. Especially – Mass Slow. And then you can summon Fire Elementals. And Phoenixes. And even put a Shield on Zombies.
For example, my Leto used to summon Phoenixes and put Vampirism on them after switching to "necromancy schools of magic." And that created an unkillable, high-initiative damage-dealing unit...
So, having two schools of magic is more of a norm than an exception for spellcasters.

In reply to Nightwell

Boris K

17 years ago

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Nightwell;202314

Skilled Attack grants +15% melee damage. Skilled Defense reduces damage dealt to troops by 30%. Therefore, the advantage lies with the defender. Especially if the attacker's "attack" stat isn't exceptionally high.

I was also surprised by the attack's disadvantage. However, the attacker can benefit from luck and various special abilities of units. And Warlocks also have elemental chains. Therefore, the advantage of defense is not that great. If it exists at all. If the bonuses were the same, the attack skill would definitely be stronger. But as it is, it's hard to say. Each race needs to be analyzed to determine who benefits more from attack and who benefits more from defense.

Amko

17 years ago

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Boris K

I was also surprised by the discrimination in attack values. However, the attacker might get lucky, and different special abilities of the units can trigger. And Warlocks also have elemental chains.

I forgot to mention Retribution. And the same applies to light magic: Stone Skin is at level 2, while Righteous Strike is at level 3. If I remember correctly, the only instance where the developers didn't follow this pattern is with the perks Shooting and Dodge, which have equal percentage values.

In reply to Amko

Mdance

17 years ago

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Amaranth;202670

If I remember correctly, the only instance where the developers didn't follow this pattern is with the Shooting and Dodge perks, which have equal percentage values.

But don't forget that shooting usually takes place from a distance with a range penalty, and sometimes even through walls:D

But in general, it makes sense - after all, the attacker has the advantage of the first strike. That is, he attacks, and after his attack, the response is weaker. Therefore, Defense is more powerful than Attack.

RAMSnake aka Satanyst

17 years ago

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Yeah... you can't argue with a crowd...

Anyone want to play a duel?

If you're interested, write to me on ICQ: 364345530...
I'll only be using the tactics I posted here; let's see if I'm really wrong....

In reply to RAMSnake aka Satanyst

Wistrit

17 years ago

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Anyone interested in playing a duel?

He should have at least left his ICQ number. I think someone from the "very weak players," like Lord, might dare to challenge you, oh all-powerful great master!

Альтаир

17 years ago

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When I play as Orcs, I always do the following:

1) I buy a tavern. This allows me to buy 2 heroes (if there's only 1) and give the army of the second hero to the first. This makes the first hero stronger. Another reason I buy a tavern first is curiosity. I agree, it's nice to know that your hero is in 1st place.
2) I buy a Centaur pasture. It's a big advantage to buy archers. If the enemy can't shoot, their unit just walks around aimlessly, while you take them down.
3) I buy Goblins.
4) I upgrade the Goblins to Trappers. They complement the Centaurs well. The Goblins set a trap, preferably nearby, so that the enemy unit doesn't move much, and the Centaurs take them down in the meantime.
5) I buy a building where machines are built.
6) I buy a level 3 unit, I forgot what it's called.
7) I upgrade the level 3 unit. (This is optional, depending on what you want to do.)

After that, I don't have a fixed tactic.

Мститель

17 years ago

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I don't know, maybe it's not worth buying vehicles so early? They're quite expensive. And if we don't buy them, then what's the point of building a forge?

Boris K

17 years ago

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The Forge is relatively inexpensive. If there are no resources to build more useful structures, it makes sense to build it to increase the city's level.

badping

17 years ago

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Yeah, after reading the first post, you can say one thing: the author is definitely passionate... In general, in such discussions, people often forget about a very important point: each skill line has its own very important perks (sorry for the slightly awkward terminology) that can be key to victory. For example, in Logistics (which, judging by the previous posts, has a mixed reputation), there is the Keen Mind ability. As you know, in practice, this means that the Hero usually gets a turn before everyone else, including before the opponent's key units. It is clear that this gives a huge advantage to a mage, but a barbarian can also use this very effectively for his own purposes, for example, in the combination "Keen Mind + Fearsome Roar". And in general, Keen Mind is very useful in combination with any battle cry. And considering that the chance of Logistics appearing for a Barbarian is huge, it will not be difficult to upgrade this skill. Furthermore, for example, in Summoning Magic there is Fog Cloud. You could say that this is useless, especially against Elves or Humans. For a Necromancer, this can also be used in combination with Banshee's Cry (resulting in enemy archers receiving a total of -20% to Initiative) - isn't that beneficial? Well, I could continue giving examples for a very, very long time... The point is that these things are very rarely mentioned.

Boris K

17 years ago

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Actually, in such debates, people often forget about a very important point: each skill line has its own very important perks (sorry for the slightly awkward terminology) that can be the key to victory.

Well, I could continue giving examples for a very, very long time...

I absolutely agree. The main thing is to know how to use these very important perks. The game has been out for a long time, and people are still arguing about game tactics. This means that there are different, approximately equally likely, paths to victory. And that's a good thing.

badping

17 years ago

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The game has been out for a long time, and people are still arguing about game tactics.

Which is not surprising, considering how many possible game scenarios there are in "Heroes," as well as the large amount of randomness involved.

Actually, the first point is still manageable – although the number of combinations of castles, heroes, and maps is enormous, various tactics could still be anticipated and calculated... but the randomness in skill acquisition and monster placement on the map always introduces an element of surprise. That's why statements like "if you really want it, you'll get it" sound so ridiculous. It's more like, if the computer wants to, it will give you a certain skill, but otherwise, there's always a chance of getting nothing, and this is easily proven by mathematical statistics...

By the way, what I've always disliked about "Heroes" is precisely this last point – because it often happens that the opponent's luck negates all your calculations. :) Of course, this is assuming equal skill levels, but in this case, you can't always talk about skill, because the game is turn-based, so if the map isn't random, you can play according to pre-planned strategies.

In general, I'm saying all this because when I read such arguments, I always notice how pointless they are, because when proving the importance of something, the authors forget to mention the conditions under which it is actually important. And they don't provide examples...

SuperGuru

11 years ago

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After reading everything that my fellow players have said, I remembered all my own games. I've only been playing Heroes 5 for 4 months, and I still don't know everything. But practice shows that logistics and magic are almost mandatory skills, taking up two skill slots. In this regard, we face a more complex situation compared to Heroes 4, because there it's easier to take two heroes into one squad and initially lead one as a pure mage (with mandatory combat skills due to his defense), and the second as a pure combat-tactician. In Heroes 5, all of this must be combined in one character. Somehow. And, of course, we combine them depending on what our initial material and environment are. For example, how can you survive in the desert without logistics? Or a "slow" necromancer won't survive without magic, because, for example, in a battle against the Academy, his turn might not even come due to obvious reasons, and so on. That's how it is.

In reply to SuperGuru

Vadimh

11 years ago

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SuperGuru

After reading everything that my comrades have said, I remembered all my games. I've only been playing Heroes 5 for 4 months, and I still don't know everything. But practice shows that logistics and spellcasting are almost mandatory skills to have. In this regard, we are facing a more complex situation compared to Heroes 4, because there it is easiest to take 2 heroes into one army and initially lead one as a pure mage (with mandatory combat skills due to his defense), and the second as a pure fighter-tactician. In Heroes 5, all of this must be combined in one character. Somehow. And, of course, we combine them depending on what our starting material and environment are. For example, how can you do without logistics in the deserts? Or a "slow" necromancer cannot survive without spellcasting, because, for example, in a battle against the Academy, he may not even get his turn for obvious reasons, and so on. Something like that.

No. Logistics is not needed on small maps. Spellcasting is not needed for those who use mass spells or do not develop magic schools at all. The Academy versus the Stronghold is a long battle, and both heroes will have time to cast spells even without spellcasting, although it is often needed in this matchup.

In reply to Vadimh

SuperGuru

11 years ago

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Vadimh

No. Logistics are not needed on small maps. Magic is not needed for those who use mass casts or don't level up magic schools at all. Academy versus Necropolis is a drawn-out battle, and both heroes will have time to cast spells even without magic, although it is often needed in this matchup.

I don't even consider "small maps" where everything ends in 1-2 weeks. I'm talking about normal maps.