"The Miner's Adventures" — Tournament history (offline)

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vbn

9/9/2008 9:21 PM UTC

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Heroes III Tournament
"Adventures of Shakti" (Adventures of Shakti)

General Tournament Rules:

1. To participate in the Heroes III Tournament, you must register on our website and leave an application in this thread.

List of tournament participants:

#	Participant Nickname
01	Dirty_Player
02	WhiteLizard
03	K0Lb@zzeR
04	SandroXXL
05	Айвенго
06	ewgeniy
07	1234ru
08	СТЫД
09	SpiriTT
10	Перполькен
11	Komar
12	Romanuel
13	DARK_DRAGON
14	T@mar@
15	Kamikaze
16

2.1. The tournament is held on Russian versions of Heroes of Might and Magic III:
The Shadow of Death (Version 3.2) or Complete Collection [Platinum Edition] (Version 4.0) with the installed patch LMPatch (Version 3.1.1.1) or 2.2.1.1, 2.1.1.1. Patch information is here. It is permitted to complete the tournament on English versions of Heroes (see general rules for offline tournaments). Saves that do not meet these conditions will not be considered.
2.2. The tournament is conducted according to the general rules of offline tournaments; if any points in this thread are unclear, read the topic Offline Tournament Rules + FAQ.

3. The goal of the game is to win the map in the minimum number of days. In case of a tie in days, the deciding criterion is the sum of primary skills (attack, defense, magic, knowledge) including equipped artifacts. If a favorite is still not determined, it will be decided by the amount of sulfur. The tournament is rated, which means you have the opportunity to enter the individual rating table and increase your clan rating.

4. Discussion of the tournament during its progress is FORBIDDEN!!!
If the organizer or their assistant finds documented proof of tournament discussion anywhere on the Internet, they have the right to permanently exclude such player(s) from participating in HeroesWorld tournaments. The results of such players will not be counted and will be immediately annulled.
The tournament organizer also reserves the right to conclude that a tournament discussion took place between players if players from the same clan completed the tournament identically.

5. Use of any cheats or bugs in the final run is prohibited. Otherwise, the result will be annulled.
You can read which bugs are considered forbidden in the topic Offline Tournament Rules + FAQ.

Exception to the rules for this tournament: in case of a "+5 monsters X" week or "monster X" month, the player has the right not to replay the single week/month transition.

6. It is forbidden: to use cheating programs, codes, or additional software that can change the game structure during the final run.

7. In case of suspicion of a player cheating or other malicious intent while completing the map, it is necessary to make a save before every significant event (e.g., before a battle, before hiring another hero). The result of a player who played dishonestly, or who failed to send their description (saves) on time upon the tournament organizer's request, will be annulled and further participation in tournaments will be impossible. This will also reflect poorly on their reputation.

8. Sequence of actions for participating in the tournament:

8.1. Download save.
8.2. The downloaded save must be placed in the GAMES folder of the installed Heroes III on your computer.
8.3. Load the save and start playing at any time convenient for you. Restarting the game is forbidden, and the map can only be completed from the downloaded starting save. At the same time, do not forget to make intermediate saves (at least daily saves must exist). The tournament organizer may request these.
8.4. After completing up to the last action that results in victory (final battle, capturing a city, taking an artifact, etc.), you must save again.
8.5. A full description of the tournament map is encouraged (optional). If provided, a contest for the best description will be held, and 10 of the very best will take their place of honor in the "Hall of Fame" section!
8.6. Within the time allotted for this tournament, send this save to the tournament organizer (the e-mail address should be specified in the rules of this tournament).
8.7. Wait for the results.

9. The final save should be sent to the organizer's e-mail address.
In the submitted save, all heroes must be dismissed except for the hero performing the last action (the parameters of this specific hero [before performing the winning action] will be counted).
Save name: the save must contain the tournament abbreviation AS, the participant number, and the player Nickname, for example: AS_1_Dirty_Player.gm1.

It is also recommended to leave a message in this thread stating that you have sent the save.
After receiving your save, you will see in the application table that:
save accepted - indicated by bold Nickname.
save counted - indicated by bold italic Nickname.
save not counted - indicated by bold red Nickname.

10. The tournament starts on 10.09.2008 and will last until 21.09.2008 (up to 23:59:59 inclusive Moscow time). Only one final save is accepted from the player.
Results will be published no later than 25.09.2008.
Announcement: the tournament deadline has been extended to 28.09.08 (23:59:59) inclusive.

Good luck!

Huge thanks to Dirty_Player for creating the tournament map and generating the starting save.

In reply to Перполькен

Dirty_Player

9/21/2008 5:16 AM UTC

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Since we're already talking about the patch, I'll share my opinion!
I think everyone understands that it's necessary to standardize the rules, so to speak. Personally, I'm in favor of removing the patch for HotA, because many participants don't want to play because of it, and we're losing players :( After this tournament, I think it will become clear. I personally know three strong players who simply stopped playing because of the patch... And that's disappointing :(

Because of its "draconian" rules, HotA has lost many participants. In the seventh stage of the War of the Cosmos tournament, I think it will fail, and War of the Cosmos 8 will fail too... So let's put the question bluntly! Patch or no patch? If someone is afraid of the "traffic light" system, etc., then we can introduce a restriction similar to the one introduced in HotP; I think this will solve the problem!!!

Regarding the preliminary registration, I'll say that it brings more negativity than positivity! Although I don't see a significant difference...

P.S.: IMHO, the deadline can be extended to the 22nd, until 2 PM Moscow time, and the results can be summarized in the evening, but in any case, the final decision remains with vbn!

DmitriyAS

9/21/2008 6:07 AM UTC

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It's time for Vampire to have his say. 1. The game must be played on a clean SoD version. 2. Preliminary registration is no longer necessary and should be canceled. 3. The third criterion should be canceled. Here's why: - There is simply no need for the third criterion. Think about it – can you recall a single tournament where the second criteria were met, let alone the third? - In most tournaments, strong players aim for maximum efficiency. The third criterion adds unnecessary complexity to the game, requiring players to focus on resource gathering. - It encourages players to use "traffic light" tactics to minimize losses, especially if the map has a Global Resource Pool (GRP), which is almost always the case. - Removing the third criterion will further encourage players to strive for the best possible result. If players achieve the same result in the second criterion, it would be fair to award prizes to both, provided they have different playthroughs.

DmitriyAS

Кто сильнее или шаблон для сравнения городов по силе.
Различие офф-лайна в Heroes II и Heroes III.

Kamikaze

9/21/2008 6:14 AM UTC

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Ah, I see how it is! Well, since this tournament is a test run and is being played on a patch...which will likely be canceled, because tournaments shouldn't be held without "monsters," I think it's inappropriate to add a rating for this tournament.

P.S. I ask that all interested parties respond to this matter.

Индивидуальный и клановый рейтинги Heroes World
Handmade

In reply to Kamikaze

Dirty_Player

9/21/2008 6:27 AM UTC

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I agree with Dima! The third criterion is completely unnecessary! It only creates extra problems! I suggested leaving only the number of days! If I completed a map in X days, what difference does the amount of mercury make? We are playing for speed, after all! Unless, of course, it's a mining tournament, then there's no argument.

The rating should be calculated based on this tournament because the participants put in a lot of effort, but there should be some way to support them, otherwise, there are no medals, no rating, nothing! What's the point of playing then????

In reply to DmitriyAS

vbn

9/21/2008 10:47 AM UTC

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SpiriTT;196435

If possible, please postpone the end date of the tournament by one day – until September 22, inclusive!!! It is VERY important, please!!!

The tournament duration has been extended until 22.09.08 (23:59:59) inclusive.

DmitriyAS;196460

1. Cancel the preliminary registration as it is unnecessary.

I don't see anything wrong with having preliminary registration. If the organizer wants to and has the time to maintain a preliminary table, why shouldn't they do it? But since the suggestion has been made, in the near future we will try to hold tournaments without preliminary registration and see what happens.

DmitriyAS;196460

3. Cancel the third criterion. I will explain why:
- There is simply no need for the third criterion. Remember at least one tournament where the second criteria were met, and there was nothing to say about the third.
- In the vast majority of tournaments, strong players aim for the maximum. In addition to the difficulty of the map itself, the third criterion adds completely unnecessary fuss with resource gathering.
- It encourages players to use the "traffic light" strategy to optimize losses, of course, if there is a Guardian on the map, which is almost always the case.
- The absence of the third criterion will additionally encourage players to "squeeze out" the maximum result. Even if the players have the same results according to the second criterion, it is quite fair to award prizes to both, of course, provided that the playthroughs are different.

There was such a tournament, in Heroes I or II, I don't remember exactly, where the 1st and 2nd place were determined by the 3rd criterion (mercury) between vbn and Alex_R. This does not mean that I am, for example, against canceling the 3rd criterion. Everything needs to be weighed, although this issue, like the issue of preliminary registration, is not so important. The main thing now is to determine the fate of the patch. Although, I think it is already clear what awaits us on heroesworld in the future. ;)

Клан Homo homini

Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never faileth...

In reply to vbn

DmitriyAS

9/21/2008 11:27 AM UTC

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vbn;196497

I don't see anything wrong with having a preliminary sign-up. If the organizer wants to and has the time to maintain a preliminary table, why shouldn't they? But since the suggestion has been made, in the near future we'll try running Tournaments without a preliminary sign-up, and see what happens.

I can tell you right now what will happen – there won't be unnecessary whining like "this Tournament is great, please include me" and "oh, I didn't make it – I had problems in real life, there's a lack of communism, and, in general, I have worms, they're really bothering me, but you're here with your Tournaments." Why create posts for lazy people?

vbn;196497

There was a Tournament, for Heroes I or II, I don't remember exactly, where 1st and 2nd place were determined by the 3rd criterion (mercury) between vbn and Alex_R. This doesn't mean that I, for example, am against removing the 3rd criterion. Everything needs to be weighed, although this issue, like the issue of preliminary sign-up, is not so critical. The main thing now is to determine the fate of the patch. Although, I think it's already clear what awaits us on heroesworld in the future. ;)

But for me, the issue of the third criterion is important, and in general, it is important for those who participate in Tournaments more than once every six months. Who needs overly complex Tournaments? Or are you saying that most people don't pay enough attention to the third criterion? Even if that's the case, why is that? Because completing the Tournament itself, paying attention to the second criterion, is already a hassle, and we're adding a third one to completely exhaust the poor guy. Clearly, there is no need for a third criterion. As I've already noted, after reaching the maximum on the first two criteria, I start focusing on the third. Do I need that? No. So, who does this third criterion benefit? No one, it's just there for the sake of it. This is, at the very least, the wrong approach. Therefore, we remove it.

DmitriyAS

Кто сильнее или шаблон для сравнения городов по силе.
Различие офф-лайна в Heroes II и Heroes III.

In reply to DmitriyAS

VDV_forever

9/21/2008 11:31 AM UTC

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Then I'll add my two cents:)

DmitriyAS;196460

It's time for Vampire to have his say.

1. The game must be played on a clean SoD version.
2. Preliminary registration should be canceled as unnecessary.
3. The third criterion should be canceled. I'll explain why:

- There is simply no need for the third criterion. Just think of one tournament where the second criteria were met, and there's nothing to say about the third.
- In most tournaments, strong players push for the maximum. The third criterion adds an absolutely unnecessary hassle of resource gathering to the already challenging map.
- It encourages players to use the "save-scumming" method to optimize losses, especially if there is a resource depot on the map, which is almost always the case.
- The absence of the third criterion will further encourage players to "maximize" their results. Even if players have the same results according to the second criterion, it is quite fair to award prizes to both, provided that their playthroughs are different.

1. Perhaps, but what guarantee is there that players won't use "save-scumming"? The organizer won't be able to prove in a dubious battle that the player didn't cheat. And what if the player who came in 2nd or 3rd place does it? I guarantee that there is no organizer who can sit and check each battle of all players 20-50 times. And it needs to be checked! This means that he will miss cheaters, do you need that? I think that with the cancellation of the patch, such cases will increase many times over. Think about it.

2. Quote: cyberB;192026
And since we're discussing the rules, explain to me what the sacred meaning is of organizing preliminary registration of participants in an offline tournament? Everywhere, the final save is the application.

If almost everyone who registered actually played, that would be one thing. But that's not the case...

It's very simple:

1) So that participants can see that their save has been successfully submitted, and also that it has been accepted/rejected, and they don't need to contact the organizer unnecessarily, worrying about it.;)

2) Agree, if there is only 1 player in the participant table, there is simply no point in participating, because without a quorum, it is no longer a game.

3) Usually, renowned players who have registered for the tournament send in their saves + create significant intrigue in the game, attracting new and old participants to the tournament with their mere presence.
Example (Fireball, vbn, Qwerty, Dmitriy_AS, etc.).

4) With the introduction of such a table, there was at least some order in the naming of the save file sent by the organizers. Otherwise, they send =34gfd.gm1 and you have to figure out whose save it is.

5) Convenience for summarizing the results by the tournament organizers.

3. There's nothing to remember here, just go to the Tournament Results for 1 topic, and you will immediately see that in almost every tournament, the battle is either for skills or for mercury! This is what mastery is! Showing the same result on the days is already banal (at least in 1), this no longer surprises anyone, therefore, mastery must be proven by the 2nd and 3rd criteria for victory, especially since the rating is now non-linear, and it strongly depends on the place taken! And now go to your favorite HP and look at the latest results for heroes 1, 3 players showed the same result on the days. Victory is determined by all 3!!! And you consider this mastery!?? I don't recognize you in disguise! Is this really you, Dmitriy_AS?
Therefore, I am strongly against canceling the 2nd and 3rd criteria for victory.

4. Now, the most important thing.
In a few days, a vote will be announced on updating the main page of HW!
Several types of skins will be offered! The winning skin in the vote will be the face of the site! After that, the same fate awaits the forum, and for this, we need to clearly decide on the rules for all parts of Heroes.
To date, the issue of 3 remains unresolved. And until it is resolved, the modernization of both the forum and the tournaments will be frozen.
Therefore, such a delicate issue as playing with or without a patch must be decided by the players themselves, and if it is decided to play without it, then it is necessary to think about a system that will allow organizers to check saves responsibly and with minimal time costs!

P.S. The system that was invented on HP is absolutely imperfect and cannot be implemented on our site.

Sincerely, VDV_forever

Единый справочник по Героям Меча и Магии

ТУРНИРЫ ПО ГЕРОЯМ 1!:smile13:

DmitriyAS

9/21/2008 11:51 AM UTC

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No less important are the issues of pre-registration and the third criterion, which must also be decided by the players. Should we have an HW patch or not – let’s vote, and the rest will be decided by the administrator?

DmitriyAS

Кто сильнее или шаблон для сравнения городов по силе.
Различие офф-лайна в Heroes II и Heroes III.

In reply to DmitriyAS

VDV_forever

9/21/2008 12:12 PM UTC

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DmitriyAS;196504

No less important issues regarding preliminary registration and the third criterion should also be decided by the players. Or, should we vote on whether to apply the HW patch or not, and leave everything else to be decided by the organizer?

Your irony is inappropriate.

Then let's do it this way: as soon as any player wants to make a change to the rules, we immediately open a vote, and if successful, we immediately make adjustments to the rules + changes to the scripts!
I feel that with such topics, we will not only have no players, but also no organizers left. And the tournaments that will take place will be complicated and chaotic.

I'm outlining the situation:
A vote on canceling the 3rd victory criterion. We voted FOR! (55% for, 45 against). After 1 week, we open a vote again on introducing the 3rd victory criterion, because 3 participants showed the same result according to the 2nd criterion at the end of the last tournament. We voted FOR! (55% for, 45 against). That's what we'll get.

Sincerely, VDV_forever

Единый справочник по Героям Меча и Магии

ТУРНИРЫ ПО ГЕРОЯМ 1!:smile13:

In reply to VDV_forever

Kamikaze

9/21/2008 12:36 PM UTC

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VDV_forever;196511

Your irony is inappropriate.

Then let's do it this way: as soon as any player wants to make a change to the rules, we immediately open a vote, and if successful, we promptly implement adjustments to the rules and changes to the scripts!
I feel that at this rate, we will not only have no players, but also no organizers left. And the tournaments that do take place will be convoluted and chaotic.

Best regards, VDV_forever

VDV, open your eyes!!! VK7 - 3 participants, VK6 - 6 participants... finally think about what matters. Here your stubbornness is destructive:

Now go to Your beloved HP and look at the latest results for Heroes 1, 3 players showed the same result in terms of days. The victory is awarded to all 3!!! And you consider that skill!

A second criterion is necessary, no question! I don't think there are opponents to this. And HeroesPortal, nevertheless, is becoming the habitat of an increasing number of World players - that's a fact!
Next year you'll be playing yourself. The rules should suit the players, so that they will play!

Индивидуальный и клановый рейтинги Heroes World
Handmade

In reply to Kamikaze

VDV_forever

9/21/2008 12:52 PM UTC

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Kamikaze;196520

VDV, just open your eyes!!! WC7 - 3 participants, WC6 - 6 participants... think about the main thing at last. Your principled stance here is destructive:
A second criterion must exist, no question! I believe there are no opponents to this. And HeroesPortal, nevertheless, is becoming the habitat of an increasing number of World players - that's a fact!
Next year you'll be playing yourself. Rules should suit the players, so that they play!

What does being principled have to do with it?:mad: I'm not saying not to change the rules, I'm saying that changes to the rules should be written so that they suit both the players and the tournament organizers!
Playing on the Patch or without it, that's where the crux of the matter lies!
If on the Patch, there are few players, but the probability of cheating is minimal.
If without the Patch, there aren't many more players, but there's a higher probability of using a traffic light, giving organizers a headache.

Before doing anything, you just need to think everything through in advance, so as not to get caught off guard.

And why didn't you provide statistics for the other WCs?

P.S. I generally doubt that I'll be playing anywhere next year

Best regards, VDV_forever

Единый справочник по Героям Меча и Магии

ТУРНИРЫ ПО ГЕРОЯМ 1!:smile13:

In reply to Kamikaze

Dirty_Player

9/21/2008 12:59 PM UTC

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Dear VDV! There's no need to lump all the parts together under your single rating!!!!
If you're actually having battles based on the RTU (Resource Turnover Units), then it's useful for you, but if the third criterion in the trio is practically never considered, then what's the point of it??? I repeat: Personally, I am convinced that if a map is won in X days, then it doesn't matter how much RTU is accumulated or how developed the main hero is!

Regarding the patch and limitations, here's my IMHO:
The rules should be created by authoritative and regular players, but in no case by the administration!!!

Preliminary registration has both advantages and disadvantages! Therefore, it's a matter of taste. Since Hv is a FLOOD forum, IMHO it should be left, although it's not essential...

In reply to VDV_forever

Kamikaze

9/21/2008 1:10 PM UTC

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VDV_forever;196526

Whether the game is played with or without a patch is the key!
If played with a patch, there are fewer players, but the chance of cheating is minimal.
If played without a patch, there aren't many more players, but the chance of using cheats is higher, which is a headache for the organizers.

Personally, I'm in favor of the patch! But if normal players leave because of it, then what's the point? I hoped that everyone would want to play with the patch. That's why I asked for the ranking to be based on that. But now...
There's nothing to think about. The main thing is to have participants, not to make it easy for the organizers to check.

Индивидуальный и клановый рейтинги Heroes World
Handmade

In reply to Kamikaze

Dirty_Player

9/21/2008 1:17 PM UTC

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I don't think that, given the current situation, the organizers are simply overwhelmed with work and spend every day catching cheaters!!!
We need to fight for attendance, for a quorum!
Even if there are 3-4 more people, that's already a plus!
Holding the 4Sale tournament proved that people want to play and are ready to play! I think the quorum was record-breaking for $4!
Why, dear coordinator, did you assume that not many more people will play?

And the restrictions imposed on HP, personally, as a player, I am completely satisfied with!

In reply to Dirty_Player

VDV_forever

9/21/2008 1:30 PM UTC

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Dirty_Player;196529

Dear VDV! There is no need to lump all the parts together under your number one!!!!
If you really have battles based on Mercury, then you need it, but if the third criterion in the triple is practically never counted, then what is it for??? I repeat: Personally, I am convinced that if a map is won in X days, then it doesn't matter how much Mercury is collected or how much the main hero is pumped up!

Hmm, strange, Mercury was needed for 3 years, and then suddenly it became unnecessary?:)
Well, okay, I haven't played the 3rd game for a long time, and maybe I'm out of touch, maybe the 3rd criterion is superfluous, but what is bothering you about it?
But in the case of a tie in the 2nd criterion, the winner can always be determined by Mercury!:smile54:
And in the case of the Tournament you held, what should be done? Should everyone who completed the map in 2 days be considered winners, and gems are just a bonus?

Dirty_Player;196529

Regarding the patch and restrictions, here is my IMHO:
The rules should be created by authoritative and regular players, but in no case by the administration!!!

I assure you that they were created by such players at the time;)

Currently, I have not seen a single set of rules from players (not just authoritative ones) regarding the rules. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place?

It is necessary to approach these issues constructively and thoroughly:
post new rules, hold votes on them (possibly separately and by item), and adopt them! I am all for it!:smile41:
But, there are no such brave people yet.:(
[/QUOTE]

Added 6 minutes ago

Kamikaze;196533

The main thing is that there are participants, and not that it is easy for the organizers to check.

And indeed, why are these organizers needed, let them only check the best result, and even then, is it necessary?
The rest of the saves are based on trust.

Added 5 minutes ago

Dirty_Player;196535

I don't think that with the current state of affairs, the organizers are simply overwhelmed with work and sit day after day catching cheaters!!!

You are wrong. I have enough work in real life and I hardly have time for tournaments. With the current situation, I would not take on the 3rd game for anything!:o I'm also doing renovations. In general, I'm looking for an organizer for tournaments for the 1st game!

Dirty_Player;196535

You have to fight for participation, for a quorum!
Even if there are 3-4 more people, that's already a plus!
The 4Sale tournament proved that people want to play and are ready to play! There was a record quorum for $4, I think!

Of course, who argues!

Dirty_Player;196535