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Posts from A program for determining luck/morality in Heroes 3!
1. In Heroes 2, this is indeed the case, and it's one of its few, but significant, advantages. 2. In Heroes 1, the drop rate of morale does seem to follow a certain pattern (and we have AlexSpl for that :)), but replicating it 99% of the time will be very difficult, almost impossible. Although, this is just my opinion. 3. You're welcome!
The rule is very simple: Morale and luck will never drop from a monster if the algorithm is strictly regulated for certain player actions. If you change it, you can also change the drop rate, which is quite logical and natural.
It is 100% possible to replicate the drop of morale and luck in Heroes 1, it has been tested!
In Heroes 3, unfortunately, it's completely random in this regard.
Here, we come to the most interesting part. If in the third game, the effect of unit spells is implemented according to the same scheme as morale, such a thing does not happen.
Because in that battle, griffins went first, and there is no delay. The unicorn's counterattack - there is no delay. So, regardless of the animation speed, the version of the game, etc., the griffins always go at the same speed, and the counterattack is also the same (with or without blinding). It is completely analogous to morale.
I agree with every word written! Let's wait for vbn to respond, but I'm sure arguments will be found! I have noticed many times that if the computer is old, the battles go completely differently... But in my case, the unicorn didn't blind the griffins either...
I liked one reply to the question of how to avoid the use of chess programs when playing online. The answer was roughly: "it is necessary to set a control of no more than 2 seconds per move." :D
That's not an issue. Programs are already playing full-on with a control of 1 minute per game and minus 3 seconds per move!!! :D Nzol;189694
Agreed. I wanted to say this in my previous post about this way out of the situation. But this is akin to death for my favorite game—it's typical conservation and similar to life after a nuclear blast. The internet was capable of uniting the heroic community, but instead we'll get a division into Neanderthal groups with gradual extinction.
And I agree 100% Nzol;189694
P.S. Now I will be looking towards TE, which I have ignored for a long time. But if the guys really clear up problems like today's there, then they have already gained another supporter in me.
Personally, I've been looking towards TE for a very long time and there are many great things about it! But SoD is SoD, while TE is a mod, unfortunately... But the heroic community will inevitably move to TE, for the simple reason that you can patch and make changes in TE, whereas in SoD, alas....
I wonder if everyone participating in the discussion, as well as the discussion about the walkthrough and the final result of the tournament winner, has read ALL the pages of this thread?!
It has been noticed that when repeating certain battles, round after round, everything repeats exactly – the morale and luck rolls, the damage dealt, the spells cast by the spellcasting units, etc. This was observed in the griffin conservatory. However, in the battle with the titans, the djinns cast different spells already in the 1st round. I came to the conclusion that in internal structures such as conservatories, crypts, naga banks, utopias, etc., the battle map (let's call the entire battle process, step by step, a map) remains unchanged when repeating the same actions.
Here, many people talk about generating morale using delays. If this is still news to someone, I will say: there is an authoritative opinion that morale (or luck?) can be influenced by performing certain actions in battle after a specific time interval. For example, you have 2 stacks of snipers in your army, 1 + 10 units each. So, sometimes during a battle, morale is rolled for the 10 snipers, and sometimes it isn't. The question is: what could this depend on. So, as I said, there is an authoritative opinion from more than one player that the morale roll in such cases depends on the time delay between the turn passing to the 10 snipers and the moment of attack (i.e., the shot). But it is still unclear what these delays depend on and what they are equal to in each specific case.
My opinion is this: in battles in internal structures such as the griffin conservatory, the situation described above is impossible. That is, if repeating the same steps causes morale to be rolled for a sniper, it will always be rolled for him when repeating these same steps, regardless of any unclear delays or anything else.
However, regarding battles in open areas (for example, the battle with the titans), the assumption about delays undoubtedly has some basis. I will say right away that, to date, I have not used this hypothesis at all when participating in tournaments. In particular, I conducted the battle with the titans with the same assumption as for internal structures. Sometimes it somehow works (i.e., everything repeats from battle to battle if you repeat the same steps), and sometimes there are several options. But the question is quite interesting, and I would like to study and discuss it. My personal opinion regarding whether using and selecting delays is a fair method: although I have not used it (yet), I believe that there is nothing wrong with it.
Whose quote is this? And who was the first to decide to start a public discussion about morale? With certain knowledge, it is not necessary to use additional programs.
Wow! While I was gone, you managed to fill 3 pages (if not more), and here are my, so to speak, conclusions from all this: 1. Why have you all fallen out? The program is out and it's already irreversible (can anyone tell me if that should be written as one word or two?), surely many people had such a program or something similar, but no one wanted to expose themselves for the sake of victories and greed; however, the respected AlexSpl released it. But what stopped him from quietly writing and using it himself? He could have been winning Tournaments and offing great players without much effort, but he is an honest man, for which he gets praise and respect. 2. I just can't understand why, if DmitryAS is a great player, he didn't take a prize place? No, I have nothing against those who played better and I apologize immediately if I offended anyone. 3. Well, are we all quitting 3 and going to play everything else? Where is this world heading? One person said "I'm no longer playing SoD" and everyone started refusing too; boy, he set a "good" example. Or maybe we should just play Counter-Strike? There's no BD there and you don't need to write various programs for Luck; so, is everyone going to CS? No, it can't go on like this—are you fans or not? It's after stunts like these that people say the third one is dying. 3. And the prog might not work because it was made for the game addresses of its creator. Respectfully, DARK_DRAGON
2. I just don't understand why, if DmitryAS is a great player, he didn't take a prize-winning place? No, I have nothing against those who played better, and I apologize in advance if I offended anyone.
Dmitry took second place, by the way! And a strong player isn't obliged to win every tournament in a row! Although he was indeed beaten by a very worthy player!!! No matter what anyone says, vbn is a great player in the eyes of many!
I want to share my humble opinion on a very serious accusation against one of the most respected and strongest players in the third game (both offline and online), namely, vbn.
This is my first offline tournament, and I only managed to win a prize because I probably spent a lot of time on the map, and also thanks to Dirty (he helped me a lot, explaining the intricacies of the offline game).
I don't personally know who Banana is, but I think he understands the weight of such accusations! Let's look at the situation from a slightly different angle:
A very respected offline player, DmitryAS (in my opinion, he's about the same level as vbn), participated in the tournament and completed the map in one day (not playing). His result was in second place! I know vbn personally as one of the best online players in the third game (according to player votes, he's in the top seven online, which is a lot, although he specializes in offline). So, Vitalik worked on the map for a WHOLE MONTH. As far as I know, if he's not working, he's playing this offline tournament. And if we multiply DmitryAS's one-day result by his skill (as I already wrote in my opinion, it's approximately the same as vbn's), and by the entire tournament period, wouldn't that result raise any doubts? I personally fought the "Can" and "Titans" battles more than a HUNDRED times in total. Dirty has my saves of these battles; let the great minds try to generate a "Mass Slow" spell for the wizards in the first round, and then, with morale +1, luck 0, a force field, and 75 mana, kill the griffins (with one shot, the snipers killed about 10 griffins). I'm not saying it's impossible, just that it's very tedious and time-consuming. But that's just me, and what if someone has a lot of experience in this?!
I wanted to say a lot more, but the censorship will cut it all out, so I'll keep quiet...
In conclusion: a person sacrificed a month of their personal life, completed the map almost PERFECTLY, wrote the best report of all the ones I've read, with saves, with videos, explaining every detail. And they were simply unfairly criticized. Damn, it's disgusting, I swear! Think logically: if a person cheated, why would they write such a detailed report (even with battle videos)? Before, few people posted videos in their walkthroughs (at least, I didn't see any). Otherwise, they would have accused all the winners of cheating long ago, because they couldn't do it themselves!
Ugh, it's disgusting! This was my first and last offline tournament!
Sorry for the veiled profanity; please don't edit my post, as it will change the meaning of my thought.
And you don't need to tell me that someone got a morale of 10 in a row or blindness 5 out of 5, and that it's impossible! I don't know anything about it and don't want to know, but nevertheless, I managed to generate what I needed, even if I spent about 500 attempts and a lot of personal time on it, but I achieved my goal! Someone may have generated a battle 10 times, and their friends tried it another ten times, but it didn't work. Damn, that means the one who succeeded is a cheater!
And finally: play only with those you trust, as I do online! And you will have peace of mind. If something like this were presented to me, I would simply, frankly, and without hesitation tell them to go to hell!
Here's my non-authoritative opinion: if the program works correctly on all operating systems, then let it be. Offline mode won't suffer from this, but will actually benefit. It will save time. I abandoned participating in this tournament precisely because of this. I saw a real opportunity to complete it in 2 days, but I ran into the problem of morale not being generated. And now I remembered that, for example, troops didn't join me when loading other people's saves. Here's another topic for discussion. Is there also something wrong with the "non-sinking comma" there...?
Hello everyone! I think I should also share my thoughts.
First of all, Heroes 3 won't die! This isn't a nuclear explosion, but rather another revolution, after which life will become easier for us. The main thing is not to fight against this program, but to accept it just as we accepted the "hero digger" and "woodcutter" programs. All these programs make our lives easier.
Please don't attribute the "ballista killer" to these programs, as I believe that the negative impact of shots is a logical bug, and it only prolongs the game time.
I'll say this about myself: if I had this program about a year ago, I would have saved a lot of time that I could have spent productively. I had several tournaments in which, due to the lack of morale or luck, I fell far behind the leaders, although I knew that I could force that luck. I don't need to go far for an example (Race for the Leader, stage 2-1); I messed up so badly that it made even the heroes sick. And all because, in the Armageddon version in the game hall, I got lucky twice out of about five tries. When I tried to repeat the same thing at home for three weeks, I couldn't succeed.
Once, I spent about 8 hours on a save (Garrison), but I didn't win even once, not to mention that I could have preserved a combat-ready army. I have enough examples of wasting my time. And my free time, and all of our free time, is very valuable. Don't think that I consider anyone a cheater – that's not the case. In fact, if someone had a similar program and used it, then it's their invention, and they are just smart people. And as I understand it, this program doesn't change the structure of the game, so it's not a cheat. AlexSpl deserves a big thank you for releasing the program, as he leveled the playing field for all players, both those who had a similar program and those who now have it.
And the fact that there will be more cursed lands or fewer items that increase luck and morale in maps is not a problem. In reality, there aren't that many battles in which you need to catch luck/morale. Now, to win in a tournament, you will need to calculate more clearly where to go and who to develop, and winning a battle is just a secondary task. This is essentially what we were striving for and what we love about Heroes. And if someone likes to fight, the organizers will come up with more reliable protection for them.
If this program is still considered a cheat, then everyone will gradually switch to TE (The Eastern Era). I don't know much about TE; I haven't played it once. I've only read that it has been reworked. I'll say this about myself: there isn't much good in it (40%). The game has become too difficult with absurd ideas like a tax on the army, etc.
Are there any people who can create something like TE, but closer to our beloved Heroes 3?
Well, I hope we won't have to switch to TE. And before the next tournament, the organizers will need to post a link to another program.
And online players shouldn't worry about the release of the new program. After all, the vast majority of people online are honest and know and respect each other.
Hello everyone! Perhaps I should also share my thoughts.
Firstly, Heroes 3 will not die! This is not a nuclear explosion, but another revolution, after which our lives will become easier. The main thing is not to fight against this program, but to accept it just as we accepted the "hero digger" and "creature trainer." All these programs make our lives easier.
This is not about making life easier. There is no need to compare the hero digger with this program. The hero digger only automates the search for the desired hero. This program, in essence, interferes with the Gameplay. Now, any impossible battle can be won only by blindly catching bonus/penalty creatures and relying on luck. If before you entered a battle, relying only on your ability to use your mind, now everything will come down to the program doing the work. Maybe it would be even easier to write a program that would win battles without battles? What about that? Battles only take up players' time, so let's get rid of them! And the whole game will come down to quickly reaching the enemy castles. Or even removing all the monsters altogether. What are they needed for? Experience? Let's put chests or pandoras instead of them so that we don't have to strain ourselves at all. Damn, I'm annoyed by statements like, I want to win in a Tournament, but I don't have enough time to use my brain, so I need a program, with it I will definitely beat everyone. If I personally don't have time, then I just play for fun and don't worry about the result at all. And I don't write phrases like a hurt child, like, "of course, you played for a month, and I played for two hours." Whose problem is that? If I have more important things in real life than Tournaments, then I should treat Tournaments accordingly. I won't even talk about the programs that will not catch, but change bonus/penalty creatures, but I personally have no doubt that such programs will appear. Gentlemen, you are really killing Heroes 3, the most popular version of the game. In general, the Tournament was great, but what happened after it :smile18:
Overall, the tournament was great, but what happened afterward was... :smile18:
Thank you! And indeed, it's a tournament topic that turned into a verbal argument about databases and so on... Regarding the program, I'll say this: if AlexSPl wrote it so quickly, I'm almost certain that such a program was written by someone else a long time ago... And it would be foolish to deny that! Regarding cheating in this tournament: we're waiting for vbn, who I'm sure will have something to say!
