Posts from Переход на Equilibris

I suggest we discuss the transition to Equlibris. But first, I will write about what changes have occurred in Equlibris. I will describe several of the main ones: Interface and Gameplay Improvements After a battle, a message appears about the experience gained by each of the player's heroes. The army dialogue shows the magic resistance of the hero and units. Necromancy and summoning have received a new menu (activated with ALT-E). New animation speeds have been added in battle (7, 8, 9, 10). When merging 2 stacks of identical creatures with different movement bonuses, the bonuses are no longer lost. The resulting stack has an average movement bonus. The same rule applies to creatures revived after battle and summoned using the summoning skill (such troops are considered to have no movement bonuses). AI Improvements Computer players will not build a Summoning Portal in their castles (they don't hire anyone from there anyway - yet ;)). The AI tries to divide its armies depending on the attacking army. At higher difficulty levels, AI heroes drink potions of immortality before battle. Bug Fixes: Fixed issues with experience output in some cases (quick battle, hero death in battle). The Lich's morale indicator on the adventure map is always "0", reflecting his dead nature. The "First Strike" and "Snake Strike" spells cannot be cast on creatures with an innate first strike ability. The "incorrect map file" error has been fixed. Battles in swamps no longer slow down the game. The "Hydra Health" spell is now displayed in the list of spells applicable on the adventure map. It is no longer possible to use a bug (or even a cheat) to attach an entire stack using diplomacy or charm. The top row simply disperses. Scripting System Fixed errors in scripts: "Increase Movement" "Increase Level" "Divide by" "Negate" "Take the remainder modulo" "Combat". Variables can be used in messages and descriptions. The number of armies can be set by a script (you just need to define the MAX_ARMIES variable). Magic Fixed a bug with Armageddon (it did not deduct mana when cast). Fixed an error where Cancellation and Dispel affected creatures created using the Raise Vampires, Animate Dead, Death Call, and Summon Imp spells. Buildings === General === Stronghold: gold 3000 (was 7500), wood 5 (was 10), ore 5 (was 10). Castle: gold 4500 (was 7500), wood 10, ore 10. Caravan: gold 3000 (was 4000), wood 10, ore 2 (was 0). Heroes and Skills The values of the secondary skill Resurrection of the Life Magic school have been changed. Basic 15% (reduced from 20%) Advanced 25% (reduced from 30%) Expert 35% (reduced from 40%) Master 45% Grandmaster 55% (increased from 50%) ! A hero with the Cardinal class, Resurrection V circle (Grandmaster) and the artifacts Saint Ranan’s Staff and Ankh of Life revives 100% of the warriors who died during the battle. B-A-E-M-GM Combat gives 15-20-30-40-50 to the hero's Defense, respectively. B-A-E-M-GM Melee divides the defending creature's defense by 1.5 - 2.0 - 2.5 - 3.0 - 3.0, respectively. With each level increase, the hero receives +1 to defense. With every fifth level increase, the hero receives +1 to speed. B-A-E-M-GM Summoning summons 7-14-21-28-42 XP (+10 XP for the advanced Summoner class + 10 XP for the Druid's chain artifact) creatures + 15% per level. The selection of creatures is now made from all nature creatures of levels 1-3. The Summoning skill now allows you to choose which creatures to summon (or none at all). To do this, you need to switch to windowed mode, select the desired hero on the map, and in the Equlibris menu, select who to summon. The hero's mana increases by 1 for each level. The hero's own magic defense increases by 3% every 2 levels. It acts as a resistance cloak, with the effect depending on the hero's level. Heroes start (at level 1) with a speed of 5. This is just a brief list of changes; you can find more detailed information here! PS Information taken from the official website equilibris.celestialheavens.com Sincerely, Luchik!

I'm for switching to Equi! I like it more, and most of the changes there are good. IMHO.

Absolutely FOR!!! "Whirlwinds..." is a thing of the past, and, frankly, it's very inconvenient compared to Equilibris! However, we should still thank them for the time we spent playing it. :)
However, everything flows, everything changes... What can we say, the balance in "Whirlwinds..." wasn't exactly great... For example, I still remember some people saying how they completed the entire map using only vampires, and with each battle, their number only increased... Thank goodness for reason!!! Equilibris fixed this, which, in my opinion, only benefited the game!!! :smile12:
I started playing Equilibris back in version 3.42. I liked it so much that I completely forgot about "Whirlwinds...".
So, when the whole world is playing Equilibris (a prime example is the World Championship), it's not very practical to just stand still...

We need to develop, comrades!!!

And at least familiarize yourselves with this expansion, instead of spitting and immediately rejecting everything!!! :) If the strongest players in the world enjoy playing Equilibris, it must mean something!!! :smile13:

The Transition???
Empty words. Well, let it be a transition.

Equilibrium is, of course, good, but

If the strongest players in the world enjoy playing on Equilibrium, it means something!!!

Do we have many strong players? Do we have many players? Will there be more newcomers or veterans?

But that's just for starters. :)

Let's move on (mostly my opinion). So, I'm in a clan, and newcomers who play Heroes 4 join. The leader asks me to check their level.
When asked which version we'll be playing, the answer "Equilibrium" comes up in 0% of cases; moreover, "Warlords" and "Armageddon's Blade" account for 60% and 40%, respectively.
When I mention Equilibrium, in 100% of cases, the response is "What is that?" and in 90% of cases, "It's a large file, and I have limited bandwidth."
Equilibrium is an AMATEUR mod, so it will only be known to those who have been playing for quite some time.

There's no point in a newcomer (in terms of skill level) playing immediately against a veteran (a very strong player) – the latter will simply crush them, and the poor guy won't learn anything. It makes sense to fight veterans who are stronger than you when you already understand the game, when you can understand how they pulled off a particular trick.
Therefore, all the phrases addressed to newcomers, "play against strong opponents," are nonsense. You should first play with friends, with AI, with average players.
And if a veteran also insists on the phrase "I only play on Equilibrium, everything else is outdated," why should a newcomer even try to convince him?

And now, part 3.
For online play, the transition to Equilibrium is mostly a plus because you can always agree and play on Warlords as well. I think it will be more difficult with offline play. In fact, as I see it, the solution is this: simply hold more tournaments. Let's say if everyone now decides that Equilibrium is a great thing, all the best players in the world have switched to it, and we want to as well, then that's great; hold official tournaments on Equilibrium, but then also hold unofficial (or equally official) tournaments on Warlords.
Heroes 4 is generally dormant; there was an online tournament in winter. But even that wasn't in the traditional format, and it fizzled out and was never completed. Offline tournaments are held a little more often, but mostly out of the enthusiasm of mapmakers.

Therefore, the talk about a TRANSITION to Equilibrium, as I mentioned above, is premature or simply inappropriate.

Sincerely.

2ZYbr
I read your emotional post and decided to finally express my opinion.
A lot can be said about offline play, but I won't. In offline mode, everyone is on equal footing, blah blah blah...
But playing online on Whirlwinds, and especially on Storms, while having Equilibris is at least strange.
It's not even about Equilibris being "better" – it's a balanced (as much as possible in Heroes) version specifically for online play. It doesn't require banning Necromancy heroes, it doesn't have an obvious (or rather, very obvious) choice of monsters when developing, and it has convenient menus for summoning and Necromancy. In the end, in Equilibris, you don't need to ban certain races just because they will be too dominant or completely useless in Whirlwinds (although much depends on the map).
I won't even talk about Storms, because there are so many unfixed bugs that, in my opinion, it's not even worth talking about Storms as a full-fledged version for playing.
Equilibris is more convenient, Equilibris is more balanced.
Not recognizing this is strange.
Refusing to acknowledge this is even stranger.

The fact that the entire top, let's say, of ToHa players switched to Equilibris since its release is also a fact.

So... I'm surprised by this indignation. ;)

2shnurov_hl

I'm not arguing that Whirlwinds are worse in terms of gameplay. Or that Equilibris is better. I personally like Equilibris more. And I'm not disputing its greater balance. Those who have been playing the 4th installment for a while and have already studied the game, maybe even its subtleties, switch to Equilibris. Therefore, it is unlikely that newcomers will immediately like the requirement to switch to this mod. In fact, since we are talking exclusively about online play (and thank goodness for that:D), the version of the game is not such a critical issue. because

because you can always agree and play on Whirlwinds as well

Players like Equilibris, fine. Play on Equilibris, if they like Whirlwinds, let them play on it. The organizer just needs to choose the basic version of the tournament (Equilibris or Whirlwinds) and write that, by agreement, players can play on any version, and in controversial situations, the game will be played on the basic version. In this case, I think that choosing Whirlwinds would be a better option, because it is still worth giving priority to newcomers. If a veteran wants to have an interesting game, he will definitely choose a strong opponent, and the strong players, as they said here, already play on Equilibris, so: they agree and play. Well, if it's with a newcomer, then it's like this: if a veteran only cares about winning, he will deal with the poor guy on any version. If he also wants to enjoy the game, then maybe it will be a little less enjoyable, but again, then we read the four lines above.:)

P.S. In general, I almost repeated my post:) just with a small addition

Hold on. Are we talking about championship tournaments or just hanging out and playing games with drinks? You can even play "mother-daughter" for money with friends. Explain to me the point of "mastering" Whirlwinds if Equinox is better, more convenient, "prettier," and strong players use it? Does someone want to "play" a couple of games and then forget about the game? I don't understand this approach. If you understand, then you know better. If you're going to "allow" people to play with whatever they want, then at least the main version should be Equinox for controversial cases. Simply for the reasons stated above. By the way, here's an interesting question. If Oxygen and I agree to play a tournament match on a billiards table, is that okay? It's just a slightly different version of the game. :-D

Therefore, talking about SWITCHING to Equilibrated rules, as I mentioned above, is premature or simply inappropriate.

Zubr, I don't recognize you, honestly!
The question isn't about "Let's all sit down and switch to Equilibrated rules right now." The question is about INSTILLING an INTEREST in players for something BETTER and of HIGHER QUALITY! About explaining the differences... About raising the level of gaming culture, in the end! That's what this topic is for, as I understand it... Because, as practice shows, many players refuse to do this on their own. Laziness??? I don't know... rather, it's conservatism: "I'm happy with the Whirlwinds, and that's fine!"
As for the question of prematurity... No comment. ;)

They decided to switch to Equilibris, so they decided. We are just players; it's up to the organizers to decide. Ultimately, it doesn't make much difference for offline play, as the game changes are well-known. For online play, balance is the most important thing. The claim that Equilibris is more balanced is demonstrably false, as it always needs to be clarified on which maps, and certainly not on the standard ones. There is a good set of maps for Equilibris. If there were a similar set for Vortex without bugs, Equilibris wouldn't be needed. This approach seems much more reasonable, but no, the reformist itch has driven people to create mods and add-ons for it. It immediately brings to mind Chekhov's "The Cherry Orchard." Well, never mind; you have to play on what works best at the moment. But specifically for the promoter of bad habits, shurov hl, I want to return to the topic of additional and hidden innovations in Equilibris.

The incomprehensibility of Undergrounder relates to slightly different things. And it doesn't really concern you.
I'm not going to keep track of saves with a counter, except for the most obvious things.
And it only came in handy a few times.
And I don't understand the nerves about the existence of a program that reads the number of reloads.
What advantage does it give anyone?
There are some things that can only be useful to tournament organizers.
Can they be bypassed? Yes, they can. Everything can be.
"What one person has done, another can always break."
You're doing great.
By the way, I'm happy for your two tournament wins. Congratulations.

I appreciate your sarcasm, or rather, I wanted to say that I appreciate your good attitude, but with any software change, things are not so simple. Any control system is a double-edged sword. If you wrote it or know how it works, you can sometimes (or not sometimes) easily use it for your own purposes. For example, on the Portal, the "Methodology" was actively used for various purposes, and only the "chosen ones" knew about it. Now it turns out that the beloved Equilibris League also has its own "nuances." And in both cases, there are their own close circles of "fathers," and everyone is fiercely fighting cheaters. What could this be about?

>> The claim that Equilibris is more balanced is demonstrably false, as it always needs to be clarified on which maps, and certainly not on the standard ones. There is a good set of maps for Equilibris. If there were the same for Vortex without bugs, Equilibris wouldn't be needed.

That's not true. Equilibris is clearly more balanced. And I don't really know of any maps "for Equilibris." I know of a good set of multi-player maps that are played. And they were not designed specifically for Equilibris. For example, Circle of Life. And the infamous "problem" of Grand Master Necromancy is a well-known issue. In general, don't mislead people. :)

>>> now it turns out that even in the beloved League, Equilibris also has its own "nuances." And in both cases, there are their own close-knit groups of "founding fathers," and they all fiercely fight against cheaters. What's the point of this?..

I don't see any "nuance" in this particular case. If you've ever organized tournaments, you should know that you have to fight for fair play. And the "close-knit groups of founding fathers" are simply those who organize the tournaments and are responsible for what happens in them.
As for cheaters... They were, they are, and they will remain. Because human vanity cannot be defeated with "kind words." And if there is even the slightest opportunity to expose them, then let that opportunity exist. The number of saves was one of those opportunities. Small, and in some ways naive.
Can the "founding fathers" use their "knowledge"? Theoretically, yes. But you see, what are the "founding fathers" good at? For the most part, they are quite well-known people in the Heroes world. And often they are also personally acquainted. So, I generally know what each of them is capable of. (and, by the way, I won't play in every tournament and not according to every set of rules.) These are not newcomers who are ready to prove "with their teeth" that they are "the best."
Everyone having equal conditions is great. But when one person has boots on their feet and the other has a whistle in their mouth, the comparison is very strange...

2ZYbr
I read your emotional post and decided to share my opinion.
There's a lot to say about offline play, but I won't.
In offline mode, everyone is on equal footing, blah-blah-blah...

The post is normal, not emotional at all. I think the same way. And in my opinion, this topic arose precisely because of offline play. In online mode, no one prevents you from playing on Easy or Whirlwind difficulty, just like in Heroes of Might and Magic III, where people play on Sod and TE.
But for offline play, the decision, in my opinion, is wrong. Although it depends on what goals the organizers are pursuing. If they want to limit the number of participants and organize championships for the chosen few, then yes. If they need mass participation and attracting new players, then the decision is incomprehensible.

If they need a large player base and to attract new players, then this decision is incomprehensible.

It's strange, but the rest of the gaming world understands it perfectly well. For some reason, serious tournaments always use the latest versions of the games (and this applies not only to Heroes), as well as additional software (anti-cheat programs, ban lists, blockers, etc.). Maybe it's because people don't want to use workarounds, right? ;) You can teach a monkey to smoke. Players are attracted not by the version of the game, I hope that's clear.

We can discuss the balance of Equi for as long as we want, but I suggest doing it on the developer's forum. There is already a wealth of knowledge and explanations about why this add-on is better (rather than trusting the whole world, i.e., ToH). Why keep chewing on the same thing over and over again?

For some reason, serious Tournaments always use the very latest versions of the games.

What does "serious Tournaments" mean? Tournaments with cash prizes in clubs? Well, let them be held. With all due respect to all offline internet Tournaments, I don't think they are serious enough that the pool of participants should be limited to only serious players who only play on a serious version. Offline internet Tournaments primarily aim for a large number of participants, so playing on a version that is not sold in stores, which is only popular among serious players, is, in my opinion, wrong. This is precisely my point of view. I, for example, am not such a devoted fan of the fourth game. But sometimes I play in Tournaments. And I have no desire to switch to Equilibris, download something there, install it, or learn anything else. I haven't even fully figured out Vortex. Therefore, if I see an offline Tournament on Equilibris, I will simply close the topic and not go into it anymore, because there are many other places on the internet where people play the fourth game. And if the Tournament is on Vortex, then maybe I will play. And the most interesting thing is that there are many people like me. We don't take first places in Tournaments, but we provide Tournaments with a large number of participants, and a large number of participants means interest, and it is good for the resource. So... I hope the thought is clear? The choice is whether to make the Tournament for the elite (serious players) or for everyone.

So, is there no interest in developing skills? Is there no interest in learning? Is striving to improve the game boring? Then what's the point of tournaments at all? It's a competition. But there's no desire to strive for victory, and the attitude is just "maybe I'll play."
Then, perhaps, it's simpler and more convenient to play against the AI for your own enjoyment. Or even use cheats to have 20 black creatures on the first day, making the game easier... :)

So, is it uninteresting to develop your skills? Is it uninteresting to learn? Is it boring to strive for improvement in the game? Then what is the point of Tournaments at all? It's a competition. And if you don't strive for victory and just think, "maybe I'll play," then it's probably easier and more convenient to just play against the AI for your own enjoyment. Or maybe use cheats to have 20 black creatures on the first day, so it's easier... :)

What do you mean by "uninteresting"? I probably haven't explained it clearly enough. There are two groups of players.
The first group consists of regular Tournament participants – the "fans" of the game. They strive for development and improvement, they know the game inside and out, and after they've learned it, they start improving it, creating Equilibris, and playing on it.
The second group consists of those who just play, maybe one-on-one against the AI, maybe with cheats. But at some point, they go online, see that Tournaments are being held, and start playing. Then, many of them become decent players and move into the first group. But, in order for them to grow, you shouldn't immediately exclude them because of the version. After all, 90% of them won't bother downloading and installing Equilibris; they'll just go where they can play in the more familiar versions, the ones they already have installed on their computers.
There is also a third group – these are players of other versions who simply don't have the time to figure things out and improve in the game, especially to learn a new version. But they sometimes play, just for fun, or for other reasons. Or, like here, in a Tournament with five matches. Those who don't know Equilibris are immediately excluded from the contenders.
In general, if you're holding Tournaments for specialists in the game, then, of course, you should play on Equilibris, but if it's for everyone, without discriminating against obvious "losers," then you should play on the standard versions.
Note that I have nothing against Equilibris, but if official Tournaments are held on it, I suggest immediately starting a parallel thread about moving official Tournaments to the Third Edition.