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They aren't heroes at all (what were NWC thinking?)
0%0 votes
Just an upgrade for HoMM3
0%0 votes
Other (please specify)
19%4 votes
oxygen_hl
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Mathematics doesn't recognize authority; it only acknowledges the rigor of reasoning and transformations, which is why it doesn't always get along with models.
We'll find a common ground; I understand a little bit about mathematics too, sort of.
You're talking about the standard one? Maybe it's true for the limited map space used by hardcore online players, but even for the standard maps, I doubt it.
I would argue about the narrowness of this space, but I won't. I'm not considering single-player games because I believe that balance isn't necessarily an essential attribute in single-player. And as you correctly wrote, the standard maps are weak.
This creates the illusion of a huge number of options, but it's only an illusion because, in reality, the choice for each unit will not be very large.
Let's keep the flies separate from the cutlets. Of course, I wasn't talking about the options for conducting a battle during the battle itself, but about the possible options for conducting a battle that are taken into account when building these seven units. Naturally, if a mage has 30 spells in his spellbook, that doesn't mean he has 30 different behaviors.
In short, if I'm playing against Chaos, I can get a lot of different options, not in terms of troops, but in terms of combat behavior models. Whereas in Heroes 5, there aren't as many models.
In simple terms, if I'm playing against Chaos, I can have a lot of options to customize my strategy, not just in terms of troops, but also in terms of combat behavior models. Whereas in the fifth game, there aren't as many models available.
I would really like a couple of specific examples of when the same faction, on the same map, against the same opponent, can apply a variety of approximately equally effective different tactics for development and combat. If possible, using an example from the ongoing World Championship, where there are maps and reports, so it would be easier for me to understand, because I'm not a monster in online games, especially in the fourth game.
P.S. It was a mistake to reduce the options for the initial placement of units in the fourth game. Although people still considered the game too complex.
shnurov_hl
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Let's say the map is "Circle of Life." (It's not in the Championship Mode, but it's very popular online).
On the 3rd week, a possible encounter. Usually, 5 heroes, level 15-17 + 2 stacks of monsters.
Chaos. Besides the expected Disentegrator, a runner with a master of some magic, and a tactician – who else? A Death Mage with mass cancel (and, accordingly, a native tactician) + a runner-ninja + another Chaos hero? Or maybe an initial archer (for quickly breaking through the dwelling of the Black Dragons, if it's weak) and 2 Nature Mages with Phoenix/Praying Mantis summons? And a general, duplicated from another archer?
For the Necropolis. Mass-cancel hero, general, runner – it's all clear. Who will join them? 2 Disentegrators or 2 Order Mages? Or maybe someone completely unexpected, depending on the map's resources?
Here's a possible development scenario. :)
>>> *possibilities regarding the starting placement of units*
What does this mean? I don't understand... :)
I would really like a couple of specific examples of when the same race, on the same map, against the same opponent, can apply a variety of approximately equally effective different tactics for development and combat. If possible, use an example from the ongoing World Championship; there are maps and reports there, which would make it easier for me to understand, because I'm not exactly an online monster, especially in the fourth installment.
Sure. I'll take a map of my own creation; if you don't mind, it will be easier for me to generate examples, because there are many things in the World Championship that I am less familiar with than I would like.
Spleen.
Start with anyone. Let's say it's a Life faction.
#1 Classic: tactician, fast Life mage for the chariot, Life runner (or Order), Order mage (preferably fast, but Life is more important), angels, crusaders, monks.
Combat method: either use the chariot immediately or after a mass rush. Send troops forward (including monks), and with a wait, take down the enemy tactician. If there is no chariot, the battle may go in any way, for example: teleport the crusaders and take down the tactician with two hits or Steal All, and then a mass attack.#2: tactician and runner, two fast teleporters, Life mage, champions, crusaders.
Throw meat behind and take down everything that moves with a wait.#3: tactician and runner, two demonologists or demonologist + Life mage, angels, angels.
Summon devils or venom, two stacks of angels to prevent the enemy from escaping our heroes while the meat grows.
These are three of the simplest and most understandable options from the start. And there can be a lot of exotic options. For example, 20-30 catapults, or a fast Chaos mage with a spellbook, casting a cloud in the first turn. That is, I have named only three of the simplest, and there are still a lot of derivatives, plus completely wild options with guildmasters, etc. There are countless possibilities.
Thank you, but could you provide a link to the mentioned maps (the author's map and Circle, if it's not a standard map)? At some point, I'll have more free time, and then I'd be happy to play on popular maps, especially now that I have some references.
options for initial unit placement
I meant something similar to Tactics in Heroes of Might and Magic III, where you could choose which units to move and where after an attack.
Sooner or later, I'll get down to finding the optimal strategy for these maps. I probably won't find it, but the process itself is the most important thing... Oh yes, I need to vote in the poll. This is definitely a revolution in the series. But the poll itself is closed.
Sooner or later, I'll start looking for the optimal strategy on these maps. I probably won't find it, but the process itself is the most important thing... Oh yes, I need to vote in the poll. This is definitely a revolution in the series. But the poll itself is closed.
It's a good thing. I can easily join you on the first and second maps. Circle is my favorite map, I've played it hundreds of times. :)
The situation is almost the same as with Gothic (I'm not trying to derail the conversation, just making an analogy). Gothic 3 is radically different from the previous two parts. That's why many (including myself) fans of the first two parts simply can't understand it. Those who started with Gothic 3 say that the game is great! What am I getting at? That the opinions of fellow Heroes 3 fans are very strongly influenced by this factor – the "patriotism" that drives them, their love for the world of their beloved game. What can I say – people love traditions! And I, as a level-headed person (meaning my mind isn't clouded by patriotism), can confidently say: Heroes 4 is a mega-game!:smile54:
Минотавр - это не миф, это - зоофилизм...
UTER
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Regarding balance, it's absent, both between different towns, between heroes, and between heroes and monsters! It simply doesn't feel realistic!
The campaigns are only interesting for the first two missions, and after that, it's just a hero with highly developed melee skills, and that's it... (of course, nothing prevents you from not developing him! :)) and so on....
S-t-i-n-g
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In my opinion, the fourth installment of the "Heroes" series features the most powerful heroes out of the entire series because they truly live up to their name – they are the HEROES of Might and Magic, not just some commanders or the like. They represent a departure from the first three games, and it's a shame that the creators decided to revert to that style in the fifth game.
UTER;179755
Regarding balance, it's non-existent, both between different factions, between heroes, and between heroes and monsters! It simply doesn't feel realistic!
The campaigns are only interesting for the first two missions, and after that, it's just a hero with highly developed melee skills, and that's it... (of course, nothing prevents you from not developing him! :)) and so on....
Well, they are not perfectly balanced; Chaos is stronger than the other factions, and regarding a strong hero in the campaigns, it's not that simple.
Dark Princess
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I think that after Heroes 3, Heroes 4 wasn't the most successful game, especially the appearance of the castles disappointed me... I expected more.
I think that after Heroes 3, Heroes 4 wasn't the most successful game, especially the appearance of the castles disappointed me... I expected more.
You just need to treat them as "after the third game...", but as the fourth game, and then everything falls into place (well, almost everything). And the appearance of the castles... of course, they don't look that great, but on the other hand, this is not a place for elegant balls with lovely ladies and elegant gentlemen. This is, first of all, a fortress, and it looks as representative as it needs to. Gradually, a barn turns into a fort.
oxygen_hl
