Posts from Mefisto vs Dj Павлуша

A HUMBLE REQUEST: PLEASE, NO ONE OTHER THAN THE PARTICIPANTS IN THE DEBATE SHOULD POST ANYTHING HERE!
Topic: Is there always a choice?
Mefisto is trying to prove that there isn't.
Dj Pavlusha is trying to prove that there is.
Please behave respectfully and with dignity, as this is just a game.

Well, let's begin. "There is always a choice" – this proverb, in my opinion, is true for any situation, even the most hopeless. To make the right choice, you just need to figure out what can be done or decide on something – even if you clearly know what will happen next – and be able to do it. For example, when Napoleon, who conquered half the world and was confident in his victory, declared war on Russia, we had a choice: either surrender (which seemed to be the only possible option) or literally throw ourselves at the French under cannon fire (which we did). Of course, we had to pay with thousands of lives and the burning of Moscow, but in the end, it turned out that the option we chose was the right one. Of course, sometimes in stressful situations, you may not find the right option, but it is worth calming down a little, thinking, weighing all the pros and cons, and the solution will come, it will definitely come. The only problem is that it is not always possible to calm down at the moment of choice, but this already depends on a person's willpower. Or you cannot come to terms with the supposed consequences – the sacrifices that you have to pay for the choice made – but then you need to remember, "how much would you lose if you made a different choice?" And we will see that the option that is so strongly pushed on us as the only one (it doesn't matter who, common sense or other people) is not always the only one. You need to think with your own head and look for, look for that very "only possible" option, but one that is possible for yourself, one that you need. There is always a choice.

Agilist, you're really pushing it! I'm telling you, I can't find an answer to this question, but I'll try anyway, even though I'm sure I'll lose ((
Dj Pavlusha, your position is clear, but here's a situation: you owe money to some mafia, and they come, smash the door to pieces, and start playing around with guns near you. It's interesting what choice you'll have. Or they put a gun to your head. And you're not giving them the money, so they want to kill you! What choice do you have then? Or you're flying with a parachute, and it doesn't open. What choice do you have then? And there's no backup parachute either. Basically, you're alone, and no one can catch you.

Dj Pavlusha, sorry for such harsh examples! I just didn't know what else to say. And by the way, in my post, I mentioned World War II, not the war with Napoleon. That would have sounded more convincing.

No, there is a choice here too, but here it's different; it won't lead to much. In the case of the mafia, the choice is: either meekly await death or try to persuade them to wait at least one more day. (But for this, you need to possess an ENORMOUS gift of persuasion:smile04:) And in the case of the parachute, the option is this: As Dmitry Emets said, "If you've already fallen from a plane without a parachute, then fall, getting the maximum enjoyment from the flight." That is, you can scream, pray silently, and write wills, or you can simply enjoy the last thrill of your life. :o There is always a choice.

Added 1 hour 40 minutes later
I also want to note that both of these examples are not very realistic. Well, who, tell me, would be so closely connected to the mafia that they would risk getting caught like this and not always keep a pistol under their shirt?? Who would go skydiving without verifying ten times that there is no danger??? :confused: Of course, such situations may exist (your pistol was taken away, and the parachute, even after being checked ten times, jammed:smile21:), but this is rare these days. Well, if it does happen, then everything has already been said above. :smile26:

Okay, fine. So, here's a new scenario, since it's hard for me to defend my opinion:

When someone gets shot! I mean, they've already been shot, and there are literally fractions of a second to do something, but nothing can be done, not even an attempt. No squeak, no turn, nothing. There's no choice here, only death.

Well, here the choice is simple: go to heaven or to hell)))

Okay, fine!)) You've behaved well your whole life, so you end up in HEAVEN. There's no choice here!)))

And here, you don't even need to choose :) Haven is the goal; it's what you were choosing all those things we've been talking about for.
In general, there's always a choice. :rolleyes:

See? Once you get to Heaven, you won’t be able to go anywhere else! There’s no choice here! Heaven isn’t always the goal!

Well, first of all, there is a choice here too. The happiness you experience in Haven can manifest in different ways; maybe you want to smell the flowers, or maybe you want to swim in the clouds – there are plenty of options. Secondly, when can Haven not be the goal? Please provide an example. Thirdly, I think that all possible cases have already been considered, and there is no point in continuing. :rolleyes:

Okay! I'm already tired of this pointless argument! It's too difficult to prove my point! So, I agree with Dj Pavlusha and will ask for a different topic for discussion.

Thank you for the discussion :);)