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Posts from Discussion about Dungeon (Dark Elves).

Dungeon
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Offline Vayshan
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Posts: 873
#863
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But I would also have appropriate troops. And we shouldn't forget about Fury; it perfectly absorbs the first hit, and considering that the enemy hero is a Hag, the second hit wouldn't even be dealt. The same applies to Raiders – the hit would be absorbed... The whole difficulty lies in dispelling Fury from the Orc before the unit attacks. Not using tactics was, of course, a mistake... But what was the error in the Grand General scenario?
Армия баранов под предводительством льва сильнее армии львов под предводительством барана.

God save us everyone
Will we burn inside the fires of a thousand suns...
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Offline Shogun
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Posts: 200
#864
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Vayshan;164467
But I would also have appropriate troops. And don't forget about Fury; it perfectly absorbs the first hit, and considering that the enemy hero is a Hag, the second hit wouldn't be dealt. The same applies to Raiders – the hit would be absorbed... The whole difficulty lies in removing the Orc's Fury before the unit attacks. Not using tactics is, of course, a mistake... But what was the mistake in the Grand Game?

Yes, but calculate the difference between the HP of the Warlock and Orc armies on week 6 and week 11-12 + Chaos (and you bet on it) is many times more effective on week 6 than on week 11-12.
On week 6, he wouldn't have a Castle yet, and the starting Fury with Memory of Blood is far from unbeatable.
Against the Orc, GG – Letos (if you agreed not to ban heroes)
1. The fastest start
2. Poison with his SP + Expert of Darkness + green boots before the start of the battle, 3-4 stacks of the opponent are weakened even before the battle begins.
3. Cursed Ground, combined with poison, perfectly removes Fury
4. After a little struggle, you will learn Berserk from the witches (and the Orc has nothing to remove it)
Порою люди не со зла
Творят настолько черные дела,
Что до таких блистательных идей
Не вдруг дойдет и записной Злодей

Темный адепт клана GODS
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Offline Vayshan
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Posts: 873
#865
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At level 15, the damage from Cursed Ground is 45 units. I don't think that's very effective against Rage. By the way, I calculated the HP increase per level for Town Elves and Orcs. I don't remember the exact numbers, but the values were almost identical. And Plague would definitely help... But there's no way to test all of this, and in general, a lot in Heroes depends on luck. I played a game last summer for an experiment – the Education skill only appeared at level 18, and the Secret of the Inner Sanctum skill didn't appear at all. Of course, there was no Mass Slow or Dispel Magic...
Армия баранов под предводительством льва сильнее армии львов под предводительством барана.

God save us everyone
Will we burn inside the fires of a thousand suns...
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Offline Dracon Малласа
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#866
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I played as Letos last summer just for an experiment – the skill only dropped at level 18, and the secret skill didn't drop at all. There was, of course, no mass slow or mass dispel...

How could there be mass dispel and slow if you had leveled him up properly? It would have been there. And the fact that the skill only dropped at level 18 isn't unique to Letos; I once got the skill for Synitar only at level 19.
Чую время пришло и захлопнулась дверь
Ангел пропел и полопалась кожа...
Мы выпили жизнь, но не стали мудрей,
Мы прожили смерть, но не стали моложе...
Агата Кристи
Ты должен быть сильным,
Ты должен уметь сказать: Руки прочь, прочь от меня,
Ты должен быть сильным, иначе зачем тебе быть?!
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Offline Mdance
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Posts: 235
#867
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Damn... It's been confirmed that Lethos completely destroys the Orc with a build focused on Summoning and Darkness. What other arguments can there be? Don't bet on Chaos – because against Dark, Anti-Chaos wins about 90% of the time... Phoenix and Subjugation are our everything. And the Mistresses are doing mega-awesome things with Vampirism. The Reds are also good, but they are the focus of attack...
Я видел, как Небо окутала Тьма, и Небо смирилось с Судьбой,
Горящие реки сходили с ума, пытаясь остаться водой,
Земля пропустила коварный удар, раскрывшись на шаге вперёд,
Взлетел разъярённым драконом Огонь и понял, что тоже умрёт...
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Offline Mdance
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Posts: 235
#869
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Night Nazgul;164643
They focus their attacks on the Riders.

I haven't seen that. They just kill them without focusing.
Night Nazgul;164643
if they survive after the counterattack...

Are you kidding? Who's going to counterattack? They one-shot them. And there's usually no counterattack. Or they just attacked the wrong target.
Night Nazgul;164643
By the way, does vampirism work on their special unblockable attack?

I don't know about that – I haven't had a chance to check. I didn't have Riders by the time I cast Vampirism. I cast it on the Reds, though. But they didn't last long either. The most effective option is Phoenix.
Я видел, как Небо окутала Тьма, и Небо смирилось с Судьбой,
Горящие реки сходили с ума, пытаясь остаться водой,
Земля пропустила коварный удар, раскрывшись на шаге вперёд,
Взлетел разъярённым драконом Огонь и понял, что тоже умрёт...
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Offline Shogun
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Posts: 200
#870
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Vayshan;164530
At level 15, the damage from Cursed Ground is 45 units. In my opinion, that's not very effective for disrupting Rage. By the way, I calculated the HP growth rate for Earth Elementals and Orcs. I don't remember the exact numbers, but the values were almost identical. And Plague would definitely be helpful... But there's no way to test all of this, and in general, a lot in Heroes depends on luck. I played a game with Leto as an experiment – he only got Education at level 18, and Secret of the Phoenix didn't appear at all. Of course, there was no Mass Slow or Dispel Magic...


1. If you don't have level 20 or higher by the sixth week, you've done something seriously wrong.
2. Don't bring the Orc to Castle mode, and you'll be happy.
3. Leto consistently has Education and Secret of the Phoenix by level 16.
4. Play 50-70 games with Leto, and you'll understand a lot.

Added 3 minutes ago
Night Nazgul;164643
At the beginning of the battle, focus the attack on the Riders; if they survive the counterattack... so Vampirism on the reds is perfect.
By the way, does Vampirism work on their special retaliatory attack?

It works great, I would even say – it's fantastic:smile51:

Added 24 minutes ago
Mdance;164642
Damn... It's been tested that Leto simply tears Orcs to shreds with upgrades in Summoning and Darkness. What other arguments can there be? Don't rely on Chaos, because against Darkness, Anti-Chaos works in about 90% of cases... Phoenix and Subjugation are our everything. And the Mistresses do mega-cool things under Vampirism. The reds too, but the attack is focused on them...

In this specific case, the opponent doesn't invest in Magic Dampening because he believes that the resistance to magic is sufficient.
Порою люди не со зла
Творят настолько черные дела,
Что до таких блистательных идей
Не вдруг дойдет и записной Злодей

Темный адепт клана GODS
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Offline Vayshan
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Posts: 873
#871
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Our levels were roughly the same (in that game with the major), so I took the average number, 15, which means he would have had around 12... After that, the levels gradually start to even out. And he didn't have any СА (Combat Advantage) at all...
Армия баранов под предводительством льва сильнее армии львов под предводительством барана.

God save us everyone
Will we burn inside the fires of a thousand suns...
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Offline Dracon Малласа
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Posts: 782
#872
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And even the Mistresses create mega-horrific things under Vampirism.

Don't put Vampirism on the Minotaurs. They have thick skin and deal two hits, or put it on Hydras, that also works well.
4. Play Lethos for about 50-70 games - you'll understand a lot.

That's a lot! I don't think you need to spend so much time at the computer to master a hero.
And he never had any SA...
Well, if Chaos didn't help you in this case, then everything was very bad.
Чую время пришло и захлопнулась дверь
Ангел пропел и полопалась кожа...
Мы выпили жизнь, но не стали мудрей,
Мы прожили смерть, но не стали моложе...
Агата Кристи
Ты должен быть сильным,
Ты должен уметь сказать: Руки прочь, прочь от меня,
Ты должен быть сильным, иначе зачем тебе быть?!
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Offline Майор Вихрь
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Posts: 3,559
#873
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Dracon Mallasa;164790

Well, if Chaos didn't help you in this case, then things were really bad.
Surprisingly, it didn't help. You know, when an Orc destroys a Warlock so thoroughly that, even with expert spellcasting, the Warlock only manages 3 or 4 casts... Of course, he destroyed about half of my army with troops and Chaos, but that's still not enough. Chaos was clearly powerless in this situation. And then there were the Goblins. They ruined the Earth Shock just when luck kicked in. The damage of Earth Shock, if I remember correctly, was reduced by two or three times. Perhaps, at the same time, a reflection triggered, reducing the damage by 25% due to the mastery skill he had.
O God of Earth and Altar,
Bow down and hear our cry,
Our earthly rulers falter,
Our people drift and die,
The walls of gold entomb us,
The swords of scorn divide,
Take not thy thunder from us,
Take away our pride.

G.K. Chesterton: English Hymnal
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Offline Vayshan
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Posts: 873
#874
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Earth Shock dealt about 3000 damage. However, Fury and Goblins significantly reduced the damage.
Армия баранов под предводительством льва сильнее армии львов под предводительством барана.

God save us everyone
Will we burn inside the fires of a thousand suns...
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Offline _Prizrak_
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Posts: 715
#875
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Goblins significantly reduced damage.
And how did goblins help? Are you talking about shamans who disrupt magic? I don't quite understand...
:smile02:Клан "Lost Heroes" - Заместитель лидера:smile02:
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Offline Майор Вихрь
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#876
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_Prizrak_;164819
And how did the goblins help? Are you talking about the shamans who disrupt magic? I don't quite understand...
Yes. One of the possible effects of magic disruption is reducing spellpower by half when casting. This is the effect that occurred.
O God of Earth and Altar,
Bow down and hear our cry,
Our earthly rulers falter,
Our people drift and die,
The walls of gold entomb us,
The swords of scorn divide,
Take not thy thunder from us,
Take away our pride.

G.K. Chesterton: English Hymnal
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Offline Dracon Малласа
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Posts: 782
#877
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At level 15, the damage from Cursed Ground is 45 units.

Since we're talking about this ability, I have a question. Will it affect flying creatures? And what about teleporting creatures, such as vampires and devils?
Чую время пришло и захлопнулась дверь
Ангел пропел и полопалась кожа...
Мы выпили жизнь, но не стали мудрей,
Мы прожили смерть, но не стали моложе...
Агата Кристи
Ты должен быть сильным,
Ты должен уметь сказать: Руки прочь, прочь от меня,
Ты должен быть сильным, иначе зачем тебе быть?!
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