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Offline Ратник
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Posts: 124
#1
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In this thread, I would like to discuss engineers, their development, and so on. Most importantly, I want to discuss an effective way to counter them and, in general, if there is a way to do so besides destroying their machines. Are they even necessary? Don't they disrupt the game's balance? After all, at the start, they seem to have a significant advantage compared to other heroes.
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Offline ValgallaWolf
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Posts: 938
#2
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Like cures like... It's best to counter a Mechanic with a Mechanic, and also take a Barbarian. At least, that's how I always win. But not all Mechanics are strong. For example, Tilsek from the Barbarians.
So many centuries
So many Gods
We were the prisoners of our own fantasy
But now we are marching
Against these Gods
I'm the wizard, I will change it all
Valhalla - Deliverance
Why've you ever forgotten me

19.08.2008 СК Олимпийский.Я запомню это навсегда!!!

Как играть онлайн в Герои 5??Ответ здесь
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Offline Boris K
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Posts: 1,131
#3
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IMHO, Dugald for Haven and Haggeesh for Stronghold are better than any Engineer. And Waishan and Irannah are also quite strong heroes. Also, Ora for Academy.
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Offline Dracon Малласа
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Posts: 782
#4
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at the start, they definitely have a significant advantage compared to other heroes.

Of course, they do. Personally, I like Vittorio the most among the engineers, although many believe that Deleb is better; I won't argue with them. And I always upgrade machines when I play as the Stronghold, and also for hero-engineers when I play as them.
Чую время пришло и захлопнулась дверь
Ангел пропел и полопалась кожа...
Мы выпили жизнь, но не стали мудрей,
Мы прожили смерть, но не стали моложе...
Агата Кристи
Ты должен быть сильным,
Ты должен уметь сказать: Руки прочь, прочь от меня,
Ты должен быть сильным, иначе зачем тебе быть?!
КИНО
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Offline Майор Вихрь
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Posts: 3,559
#5
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Perhaps the most effective way for a Machine Guild to counter a rush is with an ice block combined with deadly cold, provided you have the ice block available in the guild and have chaos magic. In the late game, you can also spend a turn or use troops that attack multiple squares to engage, or use an area-of-effect spell, etc. Mages can learn the "Control Machines" spell, although this will leave you without your rapid-fire ballista, but the chance to take control of the enemy's ballista, which they are relying on, is encouraging...
O God of Earth and Altar,
Bow down and hear our cry,
Our earthly rulers falter,
Our people drift and die,
The walls of gold entomb us,
The swords of scorn divide,
Take not thy thunder from us,
Take away our pride.

G.K. Chesterton: English Hymnal
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Offline Полосатая
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Posts: 424
#6
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How should a Machine Guild hero develop? There are only three skill trees available. You can take abilities for all three machines, and the hero will become a jack-of-all-trades, but ultimately weak. Regarding the machines individually: the tent, while being a good support, doesn't heal very well, and the plague tent is just nonsense, IMHO. The ballista is definitely the most useful; it can replace archers in the army in the early stages of the game. But there's also the catapult, and attempting to storm a castle without its skill is practically suicide. Of course, this doesn't help much (my catapult, for example, only shoots where it's supposed to half the time :confused:), but it's even worse with an "untrained" catapult... So, should you develop along the lines of ballista - improved ballista - catapult? What about the enchanted ballista? What about earthquake? What about steal? What should you do with them?
So back off your rules,
Back off your jive!
Cause I'm sick of not living,
To stay alive,
Leave me alone!
I'm not asking a lot -
I just don't want to be controlled,
That's all I want.
All I want!
(с)The Offspring
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Offline Boris K
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Posts: 1,131
#7
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I rarely upgrade siege weapons. If a hero is a good Chaos Knight, they don't need a catapult at all. Only a fool would hide from a Chaos Knight in a castle. And against a Dark Magic specialist, the opponent won't feel comfortable staying in a castle. Towers and walls are also destroyed by the Crystal of Secret Knowledge. Unlike a catapult, it can destroy the central tower in one shot.

Siege weapons are only good at the beginning. But many factions have heroes who can easily defeat neutrals without them. In the late game, any siege weapon, including a catapult, can be destroyed with a single shot.
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Offline Alucard
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Posts: 779
#8
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How should a Mechanic develop? There are only three skill stacks available. You can take abilities for all three machines, and the hero will become a jack-of-all-trades, but ultimately weak. Regarding the machines individually: the Tent is a good support, but it doesn't heal very well, and the Plague Tent is nonsense, in my opinion. The Ballista is, of course, the most useful; it can replace Archers in the army in the early game. But there's also the Catapult, and without its skill, storming a Castle is practically suicide. Of course, this doesn't help much (my Catapult, for example, only shoots where it's supposed to half the time), but it's even worse with an "untrained" Catapult... So, the development path should be Ballista - Swift Ballista - Catapult? What about the Enchanted Ballista? What about Earthquake? What about Steal? What should be done with them?
Hmm, I don't see anything wrong with the Resurrection Tent; it saves the army wonderfully, and with it, you can even defeat late-game neutral creatures at the beginning... I usually don't upgrade the Catapult; I don't know how to take castles without it, but it's better to take Sudden Attack instead of the Catapult. Well, and the Ballista is a Ballista everywhere. I don't play as Mechanics at all; they're overpowered, and it's easy to play as them, and even easier to level up. And I don't even want to talk about playing against the AI.
Нет, я же Гитлер.
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Offline _Prizrak_
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Posts: 715
#9
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It's easiest to counter machines, and it's clear who. Of course, it's the mages. They have a special upgrade for Gremlins just for this!
:smile02:Клан "Lost Heroes" - Заместитель лидера:smile02:
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Offline Dracon Малласа
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Posts: 782
#10
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And the towers and walls are destroyed by the secret crystal as well. Unlike the catapult, it can destroy the central tower in one go.

So, the secret crystal can also destroy walls? That's great.
Чую время пришло и захлопнулась дверь
Ангел пропел и полопалась кожа...
Мы выпили жизнь, но не стали мудрей,
Мы прожили смерть, но не стали моложе...
Агата Кристи
Ты должен быть сильным,
Ты должен уметь сказать: Руки прочь, прочь от меня,
Ты должен быть сильным, иначе зачем тебе быть?!
КИНО
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Offline Nevil
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Posts: 99
#11
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I didn't know about the crystal either, by the way!


Lie awake in bed at night
And think about your life
Do you want to be different
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Offline _Prizrak_
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Posts: 715
#12
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Can the crystal of secret knowledge really break down walls? That's great.
You place the crystal next to the wall, then shoot at it, or hook it with a platform, and it destroys the walls, that's what I understand.
:smile02:Клан "Lost Heroes" - Заместитель лидера:smile02:
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Offline Майор Вихрь
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Posts: 3,559
#14
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Mefisto;162740
I don't play as machinists very often, although I have played as Kaspar a few times. I know that good machinists come from the SE faction, and I would like to know - how is it with the Dwarves? In theory, it should be great.
It depends on what you need from the machines. With the Ballista, things are very difficult for the Dwarves: firstly, attack and knowledge skills are developed weakly, and secondly, the ballista costs 4500 in the city. Judge for yourself what will come of it and at what cost you will achieve it. However, it is easy to get a tent at the start (machines have a 15% chance). For a long game, a catapult + rune machines might be useful. And the forge, which is essential to build, also leaves its mark.
O God of Earth and Altar,
Bow down and hear our cry,
Our earthly rulers falter,
Our people drift and die,
The walls of gold entomb us,
The swords of scorn divide,
Take not thy thunder from us,
Take away our pride.

G.K. Chesterton: English Hymnal
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Offline Dracon Малласа
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Posts: 782
#15
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Well, I think that dwarves just aren't cut out for building machines; nothing good will come of it.
Чую время пришло и захлопнулась дверь
Ангел пропел и полопалась кожа...
Мы выпили жизнь, но не стали мудрей,
Мы прожили смерть, но не стали моложе...
Агата Кристи
Ты должен быть сильным,
Ты должен уметь сказать: Руки прочь, прочь от меня,
Ты должен быть сильным, иначе зачем тебе быть?!
КИНО
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