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Posts from Angels and paladins – how to use them? There are also discussions about them here.

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Offline Imaris
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#32
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ValgallaWolf;154375
Seraphs are, in my opinion, unstable... Which other unit has such a wide range of damage as they do? And both Divine Punishment and Deflect can be used against them, but Resurrection is permanent)))
Well, I don't know... Mages often use Deflect, so I think it's even more useful to take Archons against them... But personally, I like Seraphs.
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Offline HRono
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#33
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Personally, I upgrade swordsmen into monks – that’s powerful.
And as for angels and paladins, it’s better to have them.
Who should be sent into attack before them, because it’s a pity to put them in a position where they might take a counter-attack.
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Offline Полосатая
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#34
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Personally, I upgrade swordsmen into monks – that’s a powerful combination.
And as for angels and paladins, it’s better to have them.
Who should you send into attack before them, otherwise it’s a pity to put them in a position to take a counter-attack.
It’s a pity, it’s a pity… But who should you put in a position to take a counter-attack? It needs to be someone who can run at the same speed as the angels and paladins, and there aren’t any such units in the knight’s army. There are griffins, of course, but they are fragile, so sending them into a counter-attack is foolish.
And regarding seraphs – I don’t really like it when everything depends on luck, and since they are angels, let them resurrect. They could have left them with vampirism from Lords of the North...
So back off your rules,
Back off your jive!
Cause I'm sick of not living,
To stay alive,
Leave me alone!
I'm not asking a lot -
I just don't want to be controlled,
That's all I want.
All I want!
(с)The Offspring
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Offline TonyMontana
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#35
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Let's go through everything in order... First, if Seraphs were given vampirism, it would be overpowered, in my opinion. I remember installing a mod for Heroes that replaced the standard human upgrade in Warlords with the current one (although there are many differences between them). For example, 20 Seraphs with Blessing and Stone Skin + Vampirism would be too much... So, the new angel upgrade might not be as strong, but at least it's fair, in my opinion. Second, does anyone actually use the Griffin upgrade? If not, I'll say that they're not weak at all. Here's why: I recently fought a duel with Vittorio against Axel (I went first)... He killed almost all of my army except for the Griffins (they were flying). At the end of the battle, I had 6 Inquisitors, 40 Archers, and 40 Crossbowmen, and he had everything except horses and Archangels. I cast Stone Skin on the Griffins with the Inquisitors, plus Blessing, which I had cast earlier, and then I cast Vampirism... 70 Knights were killing 4 Griffins at a time (the Knights were under Blessing and Power Strike), but the Griffins kept dealing more and more damage, and their numbers didn't decrease. As for Paladins and Archangels, I think the new horses are better - they often have to attack from two squares away, and they deal more damage. You send them into battle right away, and the Archangels heal, that's all. Once again, in my opinion, the Seraph is not meant to support Paladins. Sometimes it can hit even harder than Paladins, and Divine Retribution is a powerful spell, even though it requires sacrifices from your own army.
Есть свет и тьма,
Добро и зло,
Есть сила и власть,
И много всего
Но знай ты одно,
Что все это чушь,
И лишь без любви
Не проживешь ты и дня..
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Offline Alucard
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#36
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Secondly, does anyone actually use the alternate griffons? If not, I'll say that they're not weak at all...
You're right, I don't know who said they were weak, but a few pages ago, everyone agreed that they're better than the old ones, and indeed, in my opinion, the new griffons have the abilities that are best suited for the gameplay tactics, I don't understand what the argument is that we'll lose them, well, we'll lose them, but it's better to lose archers, right? Before we lose them, the griffons will inflict significant damage on the enemy army and free up the paladins.
Нет, я же Гитлер.
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Offline Полосатая
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#37
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Yes, indeed, you can use griffins to counterattack. It's especially interesting to throw them right in front of the enemy, and the more they attack, the worse it will be for the enemy, although I doubt anyone other than the AI would fall for that.
As for paladins and archons... I think the new mounts are better – very often you have to attack from two squares away, plus they deal more damage... you send them straight into battle, and the archons heal, that's all.
Really, often? I practically never use this ability, even with defender archers, it doesn't always work. And I think the damage is the same. But this ability is still better than the one the old ones had.
I'm saying it again, IMHO, the seraphim is not meant to support paladins. Sometimes it can hit harder than paladins, and besides, Divine Retribution is a powerful spell, even if it requires sacrifices from your own army.
Exactly, sometimes. And sometimes it's worse. Besides, I rarely use the magic of spellcasting creatures, except for a few; it's better for the hero to cast spells. Warriors usually have plenty of other work to do.
If seraphim had retained vampirism, it would have been overpowered.
I was talking purely from a stylistic point of view. Angels are meant to resurrect. And vampirism could have been weakened.
So back off your rules,
Back off your jive!
Cause I'm sick of not living,
To stay alive,
Leave me alone!
I'm not asking a lot -
I just don't want to be controlled,
That's all I want.
All I want!
(с)The Offspring
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Offline ValgallaWolf
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#38
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HRono;162164
Personally, I upgrade swordsmen into monks – that’s powerful.
And as for angels and paladins, it’s better that way.
Who should be sent into attack against them, because it’s a pity to put them in a position where they’ll take a counterattack.


Swordsmen into monks?...A waste of money. For Inquisitors to deal any significant damage, you need at least 30 of them. It’s better to upgrade them into paladins.
So many centuries
So many Gods
We were the prisoners of our own fantasy
But now we are marching
Against these Gods
I'm the wizard, I will change it all
Valhalla - Deliverance
Why've you ever forgotten me

19.08.2008 СК Олимпийский.Я запомню это навсегда!!!

Как играть онлайн в Герои 5??Ответ здесь
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Offline TonyMontana
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#39
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2Kitty
1) Yes, I often use the ability of the Knight Isabel... when playing against Elves, it can deal damage even to the Archers (it can even deal half of the damage from its attack, which can wipe out the entire unit)... Paladins deal 20-30 damage, and High Elves deal 25-35 damage. Considering that they receive a bonus for moving, these 5 points will turn into much greater damage.
2) When 10 Seraphs with Divine Vengeance wipe out 87 Succubi, that's just ridiculous...
3) I agree about the style... but even if it's weakened, Vampirism at level 7 is an imbalance. Is there a difference between 3 Seraphs being resurrected or 30 Vampires?
Есть свет и тьма,
Добро и зло,
Есть сила и власть,
И много всего
Но знай ты одно,
Что все это чушь,
И лишь без любви
Не проживешь ты и дня..
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Offline ValgallaWolf
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#40
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Uh... were you playing against the AI? A human player would never position their units in a way that allows you to reach them... That's why staying calm is more important than trying to land a powerful attack... a powerful attack is useless against a human player.
So many centuries
So many Gods
We were the prisoners of our own fantasy
But now we are marching
Against these Gods
I'm the wizard, I will change it all
Valhalla - Deliverance
Why've you ever forgotten me

19.08.2008 СК Олимпийский.Я запомню это навсегда!!!

Как играть онлайн в Герои 5??Ответ здесь
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Offline Starhan
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Posts: 454
#41
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:) A tournament strike hits two large creatures standing next to each other, and smaller ones as well, if you hit them at a slight angle. You can get such strikes from the first turn if you have +1 to speed. It's difficult to place the entire first row not next to each other, only if you're lucky with the obstacles, then it's clear where the knights will be placed for a full charge. But otherwise... in an open field, the knights of Isabel can be placed anywhere.
Каждый может быть героем ...
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Offline ValgallaWolf
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#42
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So, that's the whole point... If you've leveled up Logistics to Tactics, or found some good boots, then of course, you take Isabella. But if you don't have those bonuses, then go with the Paladins... Plus, Paladins have the Lay on Hands ability, which is very, very important (I'm not talking about healing, but about removing enchantments).
So many centuries
So many Gods
We were the prisoners of our own fantasy
But now we are marching
Against these Gods
I'm the wizard, I will change it all
Valhalla - Deliverance
Why've you ever forgotten me

19.08.2008 СК Олимпийский.Я запомню это навсегда!!!

Как играть онлайн в Герои 5??Ответ здесь
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Offline Майор Вихрь
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Posts: 1,820
#43
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The Paladin is designed to fight against a specific enemy – the dark mage. He is immune to Berserk and can dispel spells. However, what use are these abilities against, say, a chaos mage or a light mage? Absolutely none. But increased damage will be very useful (it is increased by +5 to the maximum, the minimum remains the same as the Paladin's, so it is beneficial to use Divine Might), and the ability to strike two squares away may come in handy. Even if it doesn't, it will still be more useful than Knight Isabelle.
O God of Earth and Altar,
Bow down and hear our cry,
Our earthly rulers falter,
Our people drift and die,
The walls of gold entomb us,
The swords of scorn divide,
Take not thy thunder from us,
Take away our pride.

G.K. Chesterton: English Hymnal
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Offline TonyMontana
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#44
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regarding outdated information: it's true that the Royal Infantry has 5 more maximum damage than the other unit, not both.
Hmm... Lay on Hands is a very good ability. But if the enemy only has Slow or Disarming Ray, and not Subdue with Berserk, is it logical to spend a turn of the Paladins to dispel Slow? Ice Calm is a great ability, if only it wasn't vulnerable to Subdue.

I just don't understand one thing... how do you position the units so that they can't be attacked from two squares away? Well, who will cover the archers? They're durable enough as it is...
Есть свет и тьма,
Добро и зло,
Есть сила и власть,
И много всего
Но знай ты одно,
Что все это чушь,
И лишь без любви
Не проживешь ты и дня..
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Offline Dracon Малласа
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#45
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A Paladin is generally designed to fight against a dark mage. He is immune to Berserk and can dispel spells. But what's the point of these abilities against, say, a Chaos Knight?

Well, I think it's so he can remove negative effects from Chaos, such as a 50% defense reduction or a 0.3-turn freeze. That's why.
Чую время пришло и захлопнулась дверь
Ангел пропел и полопалась кожа...
Мы выпили жизнь, но не стали мудрей,
Мы прожили смерть, но не стали моложе...
Агата Кристи
Ты должен быть сильным,
Ты должен уметь сказать: Руки прочь, прочь от меня,
Ты должен быть сильным, иначе зачем тебе быть?!
КИНО
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In reply to Dracon Малласа
Offline Майор Вихрь
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Posts: 1,820
#46
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Dracon Mallasa;165486
Well, I think it's to remove negative effects from Chaos, such as reducing defense by 50% or freezing for 0.3 turns. That's why.
Yeah, and the next Earth Shock/Freezing Cold/Fireball will fly into those very Paladins, wasting their turn. No wasted turns against a Chaos creature! And you're talking about removing effects... I understand, to nullify a Berserker. But when fighting a Chaos creature, it's only useful if you have a couple of already useless Paladins left. But often, it's easier to attack a potentially dangerous stack than to heal your own in a battle with a Chaos creature.
O God of Earth and Altar,
Bow down and hear our cry,
Our earthly rulers falter,
Our people drift and die,
The walls of gold entomb us,
The swords of scorn divide,
Take not thy thunder from us,
Take away our pride.

G.K. Chesterton: English Hymnal
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