Discussion about Dungeon (Dark Elves). — Dungeon

Mdance

18 years ago

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Julyanna;160796

Here's what I found about the crown. And where can you usually get it? Buy it?

Well, it looks nice. But what do you do with it? We're already attacking. And what about the army bonuses for the headless mages who just cast spells?

Vayshan

18 years ago

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Are those the headless mages? With such awesome units, and not just cannon fodder to cast spells? I like Dungeon primarily for its army, or rather, its ideology – no unnecessary units. And magic only dominates in the early stages (I mean, specialized magic – Chaos), and later you have to rely on your army... Of course, everyone agrees that Dungeon is only good for a rush strategy. That is, it's not a versatile faction... And in my opinion, that's not balanced. You need to find ways to play in the late game, but you can't defeat anyone with just spells.

In reply to Mdance

Ратник

18 years ago

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P.S. 2 Warrior So, are we conducting a test to check the development with one hero and with several? Or will you simply agree that support heroes are essential? It's definitely not possible to definitively say that a second hero is necessary in the first week. Let's take the first city level as an example. If you build a tavern, you won't be able to build Minotaurs in the first week. Whether it's more important to hire a hero or get an additional resource boost is up to you. Let's say you have the hero Vaishan with 22 scouts. You build, buy, and get 29 hunters – that's enough for a start. Synitar has 9 hunters, which is not enough, so a second hero is needed to increase the unit size, but there's a small caveat: building a tavern means losing a day, and there might not even be any Elves available for hire.

Fireball

18 years ago

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It is definitely impossible to say unequivocally that a 2nd hero is necessary in the first week.

Then there is nothing to add to the words of the respected Mdance.

In general, so that the dispute does not reach a dead end, I suggest doing the same as we did back in Nival:
1. A Warrior creates a save file for day 1 without taking any actions on any map with the hero he will be playing.
2. He uploads this save file for everyone to download.
3. If this map is not among the standard ones, then he also attaches the map on which the save file was made (because without it, the save file will not start)
4. He develops for a certain amount of time (we will determine the time), without buying a single hero.
5. Everyone who wants to does the same, but with the purchase of additional heroes. It is even possible to replace the main hero with a purchased one - this is quite possible in the game.
6. We report and compare the results achieved. If necessary, we back them up with save files.

Save file and development time (not too long) are needed.

Ратник

18 years ago

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I don't know why, but half of my message didn't appear. So, I'm writing from where I left off. You built a tavern, but there are no elves available for hire, or perhaps not even any at all – that's a bit far-fetched. However, the fact that there's a mage hero and another hero, Irene, with 6 or 9 creatures (I don't remember exactly), is a perfectly plausible scenario, and I doubt they'll be of much help. In the end, we didn't achieve the desired result, and we wasted a day. The comparison you suggest won't yield anything either. You have a city level of 7, and I have a city level of 7. You have a tavern, and I have minotaurs. From everything that's been written here, we can conclude that once you leave the city, you don't return to it. But what about magic spells that require you to return? If the starting city level is 3, and the tavern is already built, then, of course, you can check who's available for hire and decide if you need them. But I want to emphasize that I'm talking specifically about the first week. The main point is that not hiring a second hero in the first week doesn't necessarily lead to an inevitable loss, just as not capturing a mine doesn't. You seem to have a very narrow view: if you don't hire, you've failed the mission. And if it's impossible to build a tavern in that city at all, then, according to you, is it impossible to complete the mission? Of course, you need to hire heroes, and not just a second one, but a third and a fourth. No one is arguing about that.

Fireball

18 years ago

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Comparing as you suggest won't yield any results either. You have city development level 7, and I have level 7. You have a tavern, and I have minotaurs.

You can compare the hero's experience, the amount of money and resources, the number of buildings destroyed, artifacts, etc.

The main point was that not hiring a second hero in the first week doesn't necessarily lead to an inevitable loss.

When playing on standard maps against a human opponent, it does lead to an inevitable defeat. I'll repeat, but

Save file and development timeline (not too long) please.

In reply to Fireball

Mdance

18 years ago

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I see that the Warrior is still holding his ground.
I support Fireball.
Let's see the save file.

Psionic

18 years ago

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Original :)
Playing the entire first week without a second hero?
And taking all mines and resources with the main one? :)
I'm not talking about a Campaign, where the tavern might be blocked or other map peculiarities exist, but about a regular map.

Iranna with beasts in the tavern is a wasted day?? :)
What a joke...
Actually, that would be the preferred option...

And how could there be not a single native hero in the tavern on the first week?
This is only possible if all Conflux heroes are already occupied on the first day of the game.
And this is only possible:
- if several opponents have already bought out all Conflux heroes before you.
- if there are 8 Warlock players on the map starting with different Conflux heroes.
- if all Conflux heroes on the map, except yours, are in prisons.
That is, in a regular game on a regular map, especially in a duel, this cannot happen.

Added after 17 minutes

shaddar;160866

It can be found\bought in the artifact shop, at the Dragon School and on the territory, as well as there are various structures where it may appear - this is a warrior's grave, sphinx, crypt with undead, well as already mentioned, it can also be found in a chest, etc.
It cannot be obtained from a sphinx. There is a list of possible artifacts.
It cannot be found in a chest. Only a minor one can be given with a 4% chance.

Julyanna

18 years ago

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I haven't played Heroes in a while, and I haven't found this crown even once.

Vayshan

18 years ago

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I don't know, I don't hire a second hero in the first week; I prefer to build Minotaurs. Because the main mines are important, and the main hero can capture them (is it really that hard to run to an extra tile?). The resources near the mines can wait until the next week; they won't disappear (I've checked). And Minotaurs will be very helpful in the second week during battles with tougher neutrals; otherwise, there will be no one to protect the Fury (and it's a pity for the Stalkers too). So, in my opinion, the best time to hire a sixth hero is at the beginning of the second week.

Psionic

18 years ago

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if you're playing with the standard maps from the game itself, there aren't simply new artifacts and spells; the maps haven't been updated. I've encountered this.
Could it be that?
I don't remember, did this crown appear in Tribes of the East?

Vayshan
You're, to put it mildly, wrong. :)
The main hero shouldn't make any movements on the map that other heroes could do for him.
You need to calculate the moves down to each cell so that something actually works out well. :)
A second hero on the very first day of the first week is a must. Even in this case, they don't have time to gather everything and capture everything, plus scout.
A second hero will add some army, which will also help.

The question here is whether to buy a third hero or not.
If the third hero is a native, then you definitely need to buy him. If he's not native, then you need to think about it...

Vayshan

18 years ago

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Well... So, if a hero runs those two unfortunate squares, that's it, a loss? And if he doesn't run them, then he wins? Hmm... How dependent the outcome turns out to be on such circumstances...

Alucard

18 years ago

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No, Psionic is right, the second hero is indeed essential, especially at the beginning. It doesn't matter if he's just a supporting hero, a serious additional hero, or even becomes the main hero; in the latter case, a third native hero would be helpful. First, it's about the units; if you're lucky and an additional hero like Vaishan appears, every stalker becomes valuable. Second, it's about saving turns; believe me, I've encountered situations with all races where a few extra turns were needed, and this is more common with the Fortress faction due to the specific tactics.
Also, Kifrah is noteworthy; she's not only an excellent supporting hero (specializing in melee minotaurs and, most importantly, providing 250 gold to the treasury), but due to her Stone Skin skill, she can become an excellent main hero against the Mechanoids (I recently tested this, and it works well), and there's also the element of surprise; they won't expect her.

TonyMontana

18 years ago

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in my opinion, you can't do without a second hero in the first week... what's the point of wasting 3-4 movement points per day? ... for example, you can calculate how many turns you'll spend just collecting resources; it's one thing for a demon who at least has logistics, but a second hero adds to the not-so-large army of the Tribes of the East.
and in general, Vayshan, you know how annoying it is when you rush a hero to a castle and you're just one tile short, and you have to spend another turn replenishing mana.

In reply to Vayshan

Shogun

18 years ago

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Vayshan;161092

I don't know, I don't hire a second hero in the first week; I prefer to build Minotaurs instead. Because the main mines are important, and the main hero can capture them (is it really that hard to run to an extra tile?). The resources near the mines can wait until the next week; they won't disappear (I've tested it). And Minotaurs will be very helpful in the second week during battles with tougher neutrals, otherwise, there will be no one to protect the Fury units (and it's a pity for the Stalkers too). So, in my opinion, the best time to hire a sixth hero is at the beginning of the second week.

In the second week, the Fury units are protected either by Hydras or Raiders, and this is already breaking through defenses consisting of units of level 5-7, and even then, it's often possible to do it with just Stalkers (if the main hero is Leto). I build Minotaurs in the 4th week, if I have time.

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