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Posts from The difference of offline play in Heroes II and Heroes III.

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In reply to Gynnar
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Gynnar;159469
Respect to the author of the topic; this is a very important topic because many people want to play the second game (nostalgia + it's still a great game), but when they start playing, they find that many things are different compared to the third game, and they have forgotten what and how after so many years. Since there wasn't a similar article before, and it's too much trouble to learn everything again on their own, they sadly return to the third game. I remember how I struggled in the early games of the second installment when I started playing with Lovelass, and how I first realized that there was no "wait" command in the second game :o, and then I wondered why the vampires weren't regenerating, even when they were biting a large stack of creatures and not killing anyone, and many other things. Deep Mike lost his first game after playing several games because he didn't know that you could simply block a teleport with a single unit, and he almost lost to Leosan earlier because he didn't know that, after entering a teleport, you can't exit by pressing the spacebar, as in the third game, but you have to move back and forth (and there were phoenixes standing on the other side, it was a HotSpot map, the second one). Now, a player who decides to relive their youth and play this great game doesn't have to learn through trial and error and by asking other players; they can just read this, and they'll be well-informed and ready for battle...

The goal of this material has been very subtly "captured."
Gynnar;159469


By the way, I remembered something else – this isn't described in the article, and it should be added:
In the second game, you can't, like in the third game, revisit an object or enter/exit a teleport without moving away from the object and then back to the object or teleport. As a result, visiting an object or teleport multiple times in a single game day is limited by the length of the hero's turn. In the third game, you don't need to take any steps for this purpose; you just need to press the spacebar and visit the object or enter and exit the teleport an unlimited number of times during a game day.

Thank you. Also, while I remember, you can add that resources are lost in the mill, water mill, and mystical garden (mushrooms and the addict under them - FAQ:D) if you spend the night in these objects when the week changes (Heroes II).
Qwerty;158989
A couple more points.
1. Starting army, third game. It is necessary to add the words, "and the hero Bron may even have units of the fourth level - basilisks."
2. Magic of movement to the city. In the third game, this spell belongs to the School of Earth, and depending on the degree of development of the magic school, it can transport the hero to the NEAREST city or to a CITY of his choice. In the second game, these spells are divided into two: a fourth-level spell that transports the hero to the nearest city (as when there is no Earth magic in the third game), and a fifth-level spell that transports the hero to any of his cities of his choice (as with advanced Earth magic in the third game).
3. Ally. In the second game, you can attack an ally, capture his mines, castles, and other objects.
In the third game, you cannot attack an ally, but you can learn magic from him, buy a magic book in his city, send him resources, etc.

We'll add that. Question: can we create a magic section?

Added 3 minutes ago
Ley;159514
I don't see this anywhere :) :
The "Summon Ship" spell in the second part is radically different from the third. In the second game, if there is no external ship, then summoning a boat is simply impossible..., in the third game, this problem is solved - having a secondary "Water" skill at the "Expert" level, a boat is summoned, regardless of whether it exists or not.

Good job, but advanced water will be enough;). The difference in chances is something like: 75% for advanced water and 100% for expert.
We definitely need a magic section...
DmitriyAS

Кто сильнее или шаблон для сравнения городов по силе.
Различие офф-лайна в Heroes II и Heroes III.
In reply to Ley
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Perhaps I'll add my two cents.

In Heroes 2, you can hire someone to defend the castle, I think... something like a hero, and in the third game, you can place a hero in the garrison.

P.S.: If I'm saying something wrong, don't be too harsh, because I played the second game only once in my life, and that was a long time ago ;)
In reply to DmitriyAS
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DmitriyAS;159516

Thank you. Also, while I remember, you can add that resources are lost in the mill, water mill, and mystical garden (mushrooms and the druid under them - FAQ:D), if you spend the night in these structures when the week changes (Heroes II)
The same thing happens with external dwellings of creatures - in the second game, they don't produce any new creatures if you spend the night in them when the week changes.
In reply to Dirty_Player
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Thank you. Also, while I remember, it's worth adding about the loss of resources in the mill, water mill, and mystical garden (mushrooms and the addict under them - FAQ), if you spend the night in these locations when the week changes (Heroes II).
It's also worth mentioning the loss of monsters from external dwellings (creature spawning locations outside the castle) if you stay there overnight on the 7th day of the week (I remember once I was severely disappointed when I stayed overnight in the Dragon City and, to my horror, found that the dragon was gone the following week).


I'll add my two cents.

In Heroes 2, you can hire someone to defend the castle, I think... something like a hero, and in the third game, you can place a hero in the garrison.

Yes, there is such a thing. In the second Heroes, you can't hide a hero inside the castle, as in the third, but you can hire a captain who can cast spells when defending the city (but then the opponent can bribe him, and sometimes they only attack on maps with large distances between castles because of this, so when buying a Captain before the opponent's attack, you should think carefully about whether it's necessary).

Well, someone else wrote about the creatures with Preds at the same time :)
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Absolutely, in the second game, you can build a Captain who will oversee the defense, specifically by casting spells!!! Plus, the moat (or its substitutes) in the third game deals damage, while in the second game, it simply delays units and doubles the damage they receive! To this, we must add that in the third game, corner towers appear as a part of the Castle. In the second game, however, the central tower is present in every TOWN (but not a village), that is, like the Citadel in the third game, and the towers must be built separately (left and right), and they will not do anything other than defend the castle...
There is also specific humor associated with the moat and towers in the second game, but "that's not what we're talking about right now."

Орден Фениксахаризматический :) лидер
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Here, I remembered another thing:)
1) The difference in obtaining secondary skills.
In the second part, it is quite possible to obtain a new secondary skill, even if the hero does not have all secondary skills at the "Expert" level; in the third part, this is impossible.
2) A significant difference in artifact excavation. In the second part, when the "puzzle" is open and the landmarks are visible, you can see much more than in the third part. You can see mines, mills, and witch huts...; in the third part, the only landmark for excavation is the landscape, which, compared to the second part, makes the task much more difficult.
3) In the second part, there are a number of spells that can provide information about both the opponent and the "world" itself, i.e., show the locations of cities, mines, and artifacts...
In the third part, all these spells are combined into two, depending on two secondary skills - "Earth" and "Air".
DmitriyAS;159516
A section on magic is definitely needed...

Definitely! ;)
"Единственное, что можно сказать с уверенностью об удаче - она изменит..."
In reply to Qwerty
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Qwerty;159535
Absolutely right, in Heroes II you can build a Captain who will command the defense, and specifically cast magic!!!
Yes, exactly!! now I remember!! so I haven't completely forgotten!!!

In general, I want to say a huge thank you to Dima for what he does, both in this thread and for HeroesWorld in general! RESPECT!!!!

P.S.: After reading this thread, I kinda feel like diving into Heroes II for a game :D
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Also, in the second Heroes game, compared to the third, the difference in attack and defense parameters is felt twice as strongly...

Орден Фениксахаризматический :) лидер
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Also, in the third installment, each castle has flying units, and in general, the strength of units of the same level is comparable. However, in the second game, the Barbarian and Knight castles do not have flying units, and the strength of units of the same level is often incomparable.

Орден Фениксахаризматический :) лидер
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Also, the creature growth in castles in the second Heroes game is only related to the presence of the "well" building in the city (not counting specific weeks/months). But in the third Heroes game, captured external buildings ("hidden spots") and artifacts (parts of the legion statue) matter, plus the grail in some cities, it seems.
However, the well in the second Heroes game adds as many as two creatures per week, and thus you can get 3 dragons or titans per week!!!
And also, in the second Heroes game, the maximum income from all castles except the Warlock's is 1250 per day (when the statue is built), and for Warlocks it's 1750 (when the statue and basement are built), but in the third Heroes game, you can collect 2000 from any built castle, and from one (conditionally called the capital) - as much as 4000 gold!!!

Орден Фениксахаризматический :) лидер
In reply to Qwerty
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Qwerty;159535
Plus, the ditch (or its substitutes) in the third Heroes game deals damage, while in the second game it simply delays units and doubles the damage they receive!

To be more precise, the ditch reduces the defense of attacking units within it by three points.
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DmitriyAS;157537


3. The probability of joining also depends on the hero's internal strength criterion, which is calculated in a tricky way (unknown). It is known that it definitely depends on the hit points of the hero's armies, the hero's Attack/Defense (including artifacts), and possibly on the distribution of hit points among stacks (many hit points in one stack is better than spread out).
I'd like to add regarding diplomacy.. I already wrote a bit about our research on this topic on HeroesWorld.. now I found what's here:

In Heroes 3, when joining, 5 factors are considered:
- hero's strength = sqrt ( (attack * 0.05 + 1)*(defence * 0.05 + 1) )
- hero's army strength / monster strength (Ratio)
- monster aggression level (generated when creating the save)
- unit bonus (number of identical creatures = 2, or simply if there are similar creatures = 1, if there are none = 0)
- diplomacy skill

There are detailed formulas, but who needs them anyway? ;)
and monsters have as many as 10 loyalty levels! Although in the editor you can only set 5.

I have written a lot in the school regarding Heroes 2, I recommend the thread author take a look...there is also about diplomacy: why you cannot consider attack/defense in Heroes 2, the way you can in Heroes 3, and that it allows moving troops across the map! and many other things.. logistics, navigation... a lot of stuff.
for example, here is one of my lessons for students:
http://offtop.ru/heroes2school/v1_478982__.php
Дипломатия - искусство говорить собаке "хорошая собачка" до тех пор пока не найдешь подходящую палку.
In reply to DmitriyAS
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Also, one of the significant differences in the game itself is that in the second installment, during multiplayer, when your opponent passes you the turn, the game doesn't automatically pop up on the monitor, above other programs, websites, and so on, as it does in the third installment. Therefore, if you're reading something interesting or watching something, you might not notice that your turn has been passed to you for a while. There are two ways to solve this problem: the first is to play with the music from the second installment, as a special music cue plays when your turn is passed; the second option is to message your opponent on ICQ when you pass the turn (usually they send a "1"). And here's another thing that came to mind about dragons: I remember being surprised when I started playing the second installment that the Meteor Shower spell doesn't affect green dragons. I thought that, like in the third installment, magic up to level 3 doesn't affect green and red dragons, and no magic affects black dragons. However, in the second installment, magic of any level doesn't affect green, red, or black (all "colored") dragons.

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