- Which faction is stronger? (Necropolis, Tower, or Conflux) — Tactics

Qwerty

2/28/2008 9:39 AM UTC

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The Tower's strengths lie in rushing with gremlins, nagas, and quickly building a level 7, non-upgraded structure. And, of course, magic. Plus, a large number of upgraded djinns.
However, there's a question: what to use to attack the utopia? Well, okay, the utopia. But how do you take the first hives? Wait for the nagas to appear? There are also questions about the resource nodes...
Of course, once the first hives and resource nodes are taken, it will become easier. But the question of a strong attacking stack for the utopia is still not entirely clear to me.
In this regard, necromancers look much more preferable. And elementals will have at least 10 phoenixes plus a lot of meat by the fourth week... Not to mention that with phoenixes, you can move quickly and take hives without problems, and most resource nodes are quite easily broken...

Орден Феникса – харизматический :) лидер

Qwerty

2/28/2008 9:49 AM UTC

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As for the point that all units in the Conflux, except for the second-tier ones, are among the weakest. 1. For me personally, one of the main advantages of the Conflux is that the first two units have a speed of 7, which leads to a faster exploration of the territory in the early stages of the game. 2. As mentioned in one of the excellent posts by vam rad, the current meta focuses on powerful stacks. If you have three powerful stacks – wyverns, angels, phoenixes – that's already very strong. Plus, in case of a hidden unit, you might also have, say, air units. 3. With a hidden unit of psionicists, even if their upgrade is prohibited, and with GG Monere (by the way, his starting move is quite strong, perhaps the longest of the standard heroes), Psionic Elements can also become a powerful stack. Their stats in Monere's hands will be quite decent, and the number, even with just one external unit, will also be sufficient.

Орден Феникса – харизматический :) лидер

Mos.keen

2/28/2008 9:50 AM UTC

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there are downsides everywhere...
and as for dungeons, I honestly don't go there very often...=))

Главное в любом деле - руки + удача. а остальное не так важно=))

Ley

2/28/2008 9:53 AM UTC

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2 Qwerty: rather strange prejudice... To even consider how to take Utopia with a Dragon Wizard is strange in itself. Even if it's with golems, which are always in abundance, of course, they are not useful for the main hero, but for a secondary hero, they are quite suitable, plus a little bit of meat, and if you wait for the Nag, then everything will be very easy :). Comparing a Titan with Necropolis in Utopia is difficult, but with Conflux, I think it's quite possible - you can take Utopia with a Titan before the Conflux appears.

"Единственное, что можно сказать с уверенностью об удаче - она изменит..."

Qwerty

2/28/2008 10:19 AM UTC

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2 Ley
Yes, the hive can be taken by golems, I agree.
But if there are no caches and level 6-7 isn't reached, then taking the Dragon Utopia with the Tower before the Conflux is still a bit problematic. The army on the third week would be something like 4 giants and 9 nagas—that's in the best case scenario, and even then it's not certain. More likely 9 nagas and 3 giants. A decent army, of course, but can it take the Dragon Utopia? Fine, let's look at the fourth week.
13 nagas and 5 giants. The minimum defenses can be broken. But there might be problems with more serious ones. The giant upgrade will most likely happen only after breaking the Dragon Utopia—there might not be enough gold...
But if development goes normally, there will be 12 phoenixes on the fourth week. Impressive ...

Орден Феникса – харизматический :) лидер

In reply to Qwerty

Ley

2/28/2008 10:39 AM UTC

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Qwerty;155434

And if there are no hidden resources and you can't reach level 6-7, then taking the Tower utopia before the Conflux utopia is still somewhat problematic.

Well, generally it's problematic, but the problems might not be greater than with the Conflux.

Qwerty;155434

The army on the third week is something like 4 giants and 9 nagas – this is in the best case, and even then it's not a certainty. More likely 9 nagas and 3 giants.

And why 4, or even 3? Maybe it's the other way around – 5? :)

Qwerty;155434

It's a decent army, of course, but will it be able to take the utopia? Okay, let's look at the fourth week.

By the 4th week, it should be a given. :)

Qwerty;155434

And if the development goes well, there will be 12 phoenixes on the fourth week. Impressive...

What's impressive? That there are twice as many phoenixes? – is that your argument?
And who said that only giants and nagas can take the utopia? There are golems, there are djinn, and even skeletons – a wizard can easily take the utopia with them

"Единственное, что можно сказать с уверенностью об удаче - она изменит..."

Qwerty

2/28/2008 11:15 AM UTC

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I don't get it. We said there are no external dwellings.
Where could 5 giants come from on the third week? I just can't understand. Count the turns—you aren't building giants in the Castle on the first day; there aren't enough days!
More likely, nagas were built in the Stronghold on the first (that's a good option). That makes 5 nagas by the second week. We build giants in the Castle on the second. This means on the third you get 9 nagas and 3 giants.
If there are external dwellings, that's a different story. If you took a giant external dwelling on the second—in that case, you'd actually have 6 giants on the third.
Taking the Dragon Utopia with golems on the third week is pure fantasy. I understand—scouting and all that—but look at how much damage golems do to dragons... Golems are brought along as meat, that's clear, but relying on them as a strike stack in the Dragon Utopia on the third week is doubtful. Djinns are too weak, and their numbers aren't impressive either. Skeletons—yes. Galtran definitely rules. Though, if you send him into a snowball, it'll be very funny. But that's already a question of turn management.
And plus, the respawn must allow for some skeletons to be scraped together.

Орден Феникса – харизматический :) лидер

In reply to Qwerty

Ley

2/28/2008 11:48 AM UTC

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Qwerty;155448

I don't understand. We said there are no hidden units.
Where can 5 Giants appear on the third week? I just can't figure it out. Count the moves; you don't place Giants with a castle on the first turn – there aren't enough days!

together – it's not enough.
I wasn't talking about building Giants together with the castle, but I must have made a mistake somewhere – in any case, there are 4 Giants, but even that will be enough for us.

Qwerty;155448

Taking Utopian units with Golems on the third week is pure fantasy. I understand – you're just experimenting, but look at how much damage Golems do to Dragons... Golems are taken as cannon fodder, that's clear, but relying on them as a main force in Utopian units on the third week is questionable.

Golems are absolutely not needed as cannon fodder! Golems are usually a defensive force, but their support in Utopian units will greatly ease the task, especially since they only occupy one space ;) (and do you know how much damage Dragons do to each other? :)), so you're wrong to dismiss it as fantasy... :

Qwerty;155448

Djinn are weak, and their numbers aren't impressive either.

I'm surprised. Djinn are in 3rd or 4th place in terms of strength among level 5 units. Is that weak?

Qwerty;155448

Skeletons – yes. Galtran is definitely the best.
True, if you send him to the Snow map, it will be very funny. But that's already a matter of turn management.
And plus, the respawn point should allow you to gather enough Skeletons.

Actually, Galtran himself isn't the point here; he just allows you to find 100 Skeletons earlier. I won't discuss turn management. And as for the respawn point, I think it always allows you to gather enough Skeletons by the third week to rely on them as a significant force for your kingdom's army.

"Единственное, что можно сказать с уверенностью об удаче - она изменит..."

Qwerty

2/28/2008 12:17 PM UTC

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Will there be 15 Djinns in the third week? And will this super-unit cost 8250? And will they all have a total of 600 health? Try it out... I think it's weak...
Golems are exactly the kind of "meat" in the Utopia faction that we hope the dragons will attack, without initially targeting the main attack force. The variety of such "meat" in the Tower is small (but there's plenty of it in the Conflux), and the "meat" made from golems is simply excellent because they are inexpensive and durable. There are also natural weaknesses here.

Орден Феникса – харизматический :) лидер

In reply to Qwerty

Ley

2/28/2008 12:43 PM UTC

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Qwerty;155468

Will there be 15 Djinns in the third week? And will this super-unit cost 8250? And will they all have as many as 600 health points? Give it a try... I think it's weak...

Well, the price is a slightly different matter, don't you think? As for the health points, many people seem to be hoping for Thunderbirds when comparing them to the Barbarians, but there doesn't seem to be a huge difference in their stats. Have you seen their damage? Don't you think it's weak?

Qwerty;155468

Golems are exactly the "meat" in Utopia, which, we hope, the dragons will attack, without touching the main attacking units in the early stages. The assortment of such "meat" in the Tower is small (but there's plenty of it in Conflux), and the "meat" from Golems turns out to be simply excellent because they are inexpensive and durable. There are also some drawbacks, of course.

Is it really that hard to find a couple of Gremlins? Why use Golems as "meat"? They are needed to attract the dragons' attacks only in the second turn, when, of course, we will have already "damaged" them...

"Единственное, что можно сказать с уверенностью об удаче - она изменит..."

Qwerty

2/28/2008 12:55 PM UTC

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The birds have more HP, plus there are monsters there. Here we are talking specifically about the strike stack or strike stacks for taking the Dragon Utopia as Tower. I get the impression that without high-level caches on the third week, even taking the minimum objective as Tower is very questionable. Neelka will probably be the one to take it, but even she will have a hard time ...
In other words, the main problem for me with Tower is the uncertainty regarding the strike stack combined with some slightly confusing gameplay in special buildings ...
Look. Necros have skeletons, Conflux has phoenixes, and maybe someone else too, and other castles have their own arguments — dendroids with dwarves, upgraded gorgons with hydras, minotaurs with troglodytes, while Tower has nagas (but most likely there won't be as many as desired — they will start on the first week with Stronghold) and a few giants ...

Орден Феникса – харизматический :) лидер

In reply to Qwerty

Ley

2/28/2008 1:05 PM UTC

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Qwerty;155480

Birds have more lives, plus there are monsters there. Here, we're talking specifically about a powerful stack or powerful stacks for taking the Utopia Castle.

That's what I'm telling you, the damage of the Djinns is very decent. We take out the retaliation with 1 Gremlin and then go on to surprise with the Djinns... :)

Qwerty;155480

Neela will probably take it, but even she won't have it easy...
That is, the main problem for me with the Tower is the unclear attack stack combined with a somewhat unclear game with special buildings...

This is justified by the buildings and creatures, the meaning of which lies in ranged attacks. But still, if we consider the Utopia, the Tower is far from hopeless. If it's a real problem, we take the "can" first, and that's it, but even without it, I don't think taking the Utopia should be a problem...

Qwerty;155480

Look. The Necropolis has skeletons.

Everyone has skeletons.

Qwerty;155480

The Conflux has Phoenixes, and maybe others, and other Castles have their own arguments - Dendroids with Gnomes, buffed Gorgons with Hydras, Minotaurs with Troglodytes, and the Tower has Nagas (but most likely there won't be as many as we'd like - they will appear with the Stronghold on the first week) and a few Giants...

Come on, all of this is roughly equal in terms of arguments in the Utopia, except perhaps for the Swamp. The Wizard is a very good Castle, having very good units in its arsenal, including some that can allow the hero to collect artifacts, with proper play, of course.
The point of my words was simple: the Titan is far from always inferior in the speed of taking the Utopia compared to the Conflux.

"Единственное, что можно сказать с уверенностью об удаче - она изменит..."

Qwerty

2/28/2008 2:17 PM UTC

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I think you understand that the argument in the form of a decent stack of binding dendroids, which, moreover, are NOT A SHAME TO LOSE!!, is more serious than many...
I recommend experimenting with these two Castles; you'll see everything for yourself...

Орден Феникса – харизматический :) лидер

In reply to Румпельштиц

kcfgogbfalgfl

2/29/2008 6:05 PM UTC

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No one is stronger! It all depends on the player, their skills, and their mind! Well, a little bit of luck matters too!

If you want to seriously test cities, you need to make sure the players have equal skill levels. But since that's impossible, you can test campaigns. Set up a campaign where the game plays for you using "gosolo" and see who wins, and there will be no arguments. ;)

Стартовый пост - Квенты - Разное -
Резара - Аксель - Орвальд - Эмилия -

In reply to kcfgogbfalgfl

Хомячок

3/2/2008 11:19 PM UTC

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Why rush the Utopia upgrade to week three? You could wait until week five. Conflux is the fastest to build and the Fire spell doesn't affect four creatures. Buy Fire Magic and Armageddon again. After the first few months, there won't be much left of the enemy's army.

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