Posts from The most effective starting strategy for the Inferno faction.

When I got the 3.0 skill tree, I immediately noticed the huge number of perks for demons. I think everyone has noticed that they have more perks than any other race. And there are a lot of really useful skills. When I tried to create the perfect build for level 25, I realized that I hadn't upgraded even 2/3 of what I wanted to upgrade. And if you consider a lower level (for example, level 20), it's even worse, which leads to a huge number of different hero development options. I think that in this regard, only dwarves can compete with demons, being a race that combines both mages and warriors. But I'm already getting tired of orcs and humans. That's why I decided to try a new race, and why I chose demons, I explained above. But after trying to play as them, I encountered a well-known problem - a difficult start. In fact, that's why I didn't like this race before. I don't consider the appearance to be particularly important anymore. So, here's my question: How should I develop properly? On which days should I capture mines, which creatures should I build first, which ones need to be upgraded early, what losses are acceptable, and is it possible to have a good start without war machines? Thank you in advance for your help. I may add more questions later...

Is it possible to have a good start without siege weapons?

Why specifically without siege weapons... :confused: ... I used to play Inferno and always chose Iron Maiden (Daleb) as my starting hero, with the skills Catapult & Rapid Fire Ballista + Attack & Fire Arrows, buildCerberus (upgrade them), and go into battle for the mines... then I try to upgrade Leadership & Gate Keeper, Logistics & Quick Gate Opening... in the first month, gates and siege weapons replace half the army - the main thing is to build up... maybe I'm wrong, of course... it's interesting how people start the game... :smile51:

And don't all units have ranged attacks at level 2? :)\

In principle, any faction suffers losses against ranged neutral units in the early stages.\

Against other neutral units, defending with summoned creatures helps, and they can also be used to counterattack. :) I don't know if the AI uses this tactic in fast battles... because you can win without losses in fast battles.

In my opinion, when playing as Demons, there simply isn't a way to keep pace with other races in terms of development without losing most of your already small army. The Imps are not good warriors, and the second and third-tier units can't withstand much damage. So, until you have fifth and sixth-tier units in your army, neutral creatures pose a significant problem. But, in my opinion, this only makes the game more interesting; you have to think carefully before each move.

Yeah, Waisan, and it's even more interesting to replay each battle manually to reduce losses :) Honestly, it gets tedious, but I already have some ideas. I prefer to play as Grok (the movement bonus isn't that big, but he runs further than any other hero at the start). IMHO, he's a pretty good hero at the start; he runs far, and he has teleport for only 4 mana. And it doesn't take long to level up Sudden Strike, which is also important for demons, both in the final stages and in clearing out creeps. When it comes to alternate upgrades, the choice is quite difficult. Imps or Pitfiends? (of course, I'm not considering their abilities related to mana stealing). I've tried both. I still haven't decided; Pitfiends run further, but their 1-4 damage is very frustrating; the difference is 4 times! Imps have more reliable damage and less variance. With the 2nd-level upgrade, things aren't that simple either. I used to think it was definitely a new upgrade, but now they're starting to confuse me. They receive twice as much counterattack damage and have minimal defense, and it's rare for them to kill an entire stack or at least reduce the counterattack to an insignificant level. I'm glad that Nightmares can be built in the 2nd week, but Cerberuses and Imps are still the main force at the start (the latter deal very good damage, but they die in droves). Tamara, playing as the same hero gets boring, and secondly, it's still better to be able to play as several heroes ;) And as they say, it's better not to get used to playing as a "machine" hero, otherwise, it will be very difficult to play as a regular hero later. :) That's why I don't choose Daleb. Without "machines," I just want to play; I've structured my build in such a way that they don't fit in, and I don't want to remove anything. ;)

I also love Deleb. No need to comment. Although, yes, with comments: Deleb is VERY good, especially for the early game. With her ballista, she can clear out groups of small neutral creatures, usually reaching level 2 or 3 in a row. Especially if the AI does its usual silly thing: clustering together. Also, Grol, the master of hounds, is great in my opinion. I try to build succubi, then horses, and cave lurkers as quickly as possible. Then I upgrade them. Usually starting with higher levels (but sometimes I upgrade level 1-4 first if I really need to). Especially demonesses are helpful (when playing against non-demons). Cave lords (and I prefer lords, as they cast spells) are the trump cards of demons. Archdevils are left smoking nervously. Oops - sorry, I got carried away from the main topic. In short, get to the higher levels as quickly as possible and without upgrades.

Major: Are you saying that it's a pain to replay manually? Is that supposed to be ironic? Well, in most cases, you still have to control the AI yourself, as the computer is too dumb, and it doesn't depend on the faction.
Regarding the division: her ballista (or rather, the fireball) is now completely useless; the damage is so minimal that it doesn't really matter whether the neutrals are clustered together or not. Overall, she's just a regular demon engineer.

If you're playing on a small map, 1v2, 2v2, or 1v1, grab Deleb and don't hesitate! The most important thing for her is machines; if you max out the Ballista, victory is yours. Overall, she's a useful unit! But if you're playing on a large map, don't even think about taking her; instead, take Grok, develop the "Call of Urgash" skill, and victory will be in your pocket! Regarding Warriors, it depends on who you're playing against. If it's against Dark Elves, keep the Imps, as you never know what might happen! First, immediately transform the Dogs into Cerberuses; otherwise, they're useless, but as Cerberuses, they can cause some serious damage! Don't rush to build Devils at the beginning; first, get the upgraded Scubas, then the Cave Lords! Oh, and don't forget about Nightmares; you can develop them before the Devils! THAT'S IT.

Major: Are you saying that it's a pain to replay manually? Is that supposed to be ironic? Well, in most cases, you still have to control them yourself, the AI is too dumb, and it doesn't depend on the race.
Regarding Deleb: her ballista (or rather, the fireball) is now completely useless, the damage is just minimal, so whether the neutrals clump together or not doesn't really matter. In general, she's just a regular demon engineer.

Yes, I was being ironic. And I wasn't comparing her to other races, I was just saying that it really gets annoying to replay some battles over and over again. Autoplay rarely results in no losses or minimal losses. This is what bothers me about the demons. Otherwise, everything is fine.

And don't get mad at Deleb for her ballista :) It used to be overpowered, but now everything is fair. It's also worth noting that the ballista almost always fires three times, i.e., the damage from the fireball is multiplied by 3. We also take into account the area of effect of the fireball (it can hit more than one unit, again, three times). As a result, it turns out to be a very good damage bonus. I agree that it's not that useful against creeps. But the fact that we have a ballista with Deleb from the start... She's the fastest-developing demon overall. Grok is also not bad. And for some reason, I think that something will work out with Grol too. After all, dogs are the most useful unit from the early levels at the start. And chaos will also be useful, at the start, high damage is not so important, but demons usually don't have problems with knowledge. Plus, there's the Soul Eater.

Yes, starting with demons is harder than with all the other factions. In reality, you can only start without losses with Deleb; it's easier with her than with the others, but I still think she's not the best hero among the demons (even though she's a machinist); Grog will definitely be better. On "Former Friends," when playing as demons, I usually upgrade imps and try to get as many as possible, even though they die in droves. They deal serious damage, and in the early levels, you can clear things out without significant losses once the first levels are cleared. Depending on the situation, we either improve the demons (against archers) or the cerberuses, but by that time, the problem isn't as acute. After all, opening the gate + magic, and the hero is also a bit leveled up. I usually build the guild on the second turn, although this again depends on the situation and the hero, but on "Former Friends," I build it on the second turn.

I don't understand. In the beginning, everyone will inevitably suffer losses in battles against archers or sorcerers (so it's all fair here), but summoning from the abyss is very helpful against melee-neutral units (except for high-initiative units like dancers, as they can reach the summoning point before reinforcements arrive), especially against heavily armored ones. So, what's so difficult about it?
Of course, you need to know the capabilities of initiative to calculate the moves between the moves of neutral units and skillfully position summoned troops. (And they could have made a low-level upgrade that shoots, or at least created jumping demons :))

I don't understand anything. In the early game, losses are inevitable in battles against archers or mages (so everyone is on equal footing), but summoning from the underworld is very helpful against melee-oriented neutrals (except for high-initiative ones, like dancers, who can reach the summoning point before reinforcements arrive), especially against tough ones. So, what's so difficult about it?
Of course, you need to know the possibilities of initiative to calculate the moves between the moves of the neutrals and skillfully deploy summoned troops. (And they could have made a low-level upgrade that shoots, or at least jumping demons :))

Well, firstly, all the low-level creatures of the Demons need early upgrades because they become significantly stronger, especially the demons and dogs. This makes city development more difficult. Secondly, the lack of low-level ranged units also makes their life harder. (By the time demonesses are built and their numbers become large enough, a lot of time will have passed.) Not many creatures are summoned, but they can be really useful; for example, I always use them to retaliate. But the autobattle doesn't know how to do that. The troops themselves aren't very durable for the Demons. The new demons (level 2) aren't as cool as they say. Their defense is minimal, and they die quickly. The minimum and maximum damage differ by as much as 4 times, which makes each attack a kind of lottery: you might get lucky, or you might not. And this complicates the use of their ability, because if they kill few creatures, they will take a lot of damage (the counterattack damage is doubled), and there is not much defense for either the creatures or the hero. The saving grace is the dogs, which should be built in the first week and upgraded as soon as possible. Against slow neutrals, you can do the following: deploy the dogs, they run up, attack, and run back, if the initiative allows. And at the same time, attack with the hero and possibly shoot with a ballista. Cerberuses are not furies or fairies, of course, but they can sometimes be helpful.

The new demons (level 2) aren't as powerful as people say. Their defense is minimal, and they die quickly. The minimum and maximum damage differ by a factor of 4, which makes each attack a kind of lottery: you might get lucky, or you might not.

But this ability is still much more useful than the explosion, and even though it's a lottery, the damage is decent even in case of failure. They take a beating, but the damage they deal is significant, especially since you yourself said how easy it is to retaliate.

Well, this ability is still much more useful than the explosion, plus, even though it's a gamble, the damage is decent even in case of failure. They still take damage, and the damage is quite good, especially since you yourself said how easy it is to retaliate.

I haven't used the explosion in a long time, so I can't say for sure how much damage it does, but in general, it's a way to attack without retaliation. The damage of alt demons isn't that great... At least, compared to the maximum. It's very annoying when demons can kill from 5 to 20 creatures with their attack. If they kill 20, the retaliation will be insignificant; if they kill 5, it will be the opposite. But the best demon hero is the one with expert-level mass divine power.

It's easy to retaliate; use neutral creatures in a single stack. When there are 2 or 3 of them, there aren't enough gatekeepers. Although, you can create single imps as a reserve.

Well, to use the explosion ability, you first need to move the demon close to the target and only use the ability on the next turn. The damage is about 30% of the normal damage. Besides, I usually use the abilities of new demons after removing retaliation or to finish off enemies. Also, they are indispensable when attacking archers, especially low-level ones. However, the fact that you have to upgrade so many things really slows down the development of the castle, and that's why you often don't have enough money.