Skip to content

Posts from Discussion about Dungeon (Dark Elves). Auto-translated

5.0 (1 rating)
User Avatar
#665
Auto-translated
I agree, it's good that you won't abandon us, even though we're few in number, but we are strong! ;)
As for the Tournament Edition, it's definitely necessary to play with all factions to know where to outmaneuver the opponent.


In reply to Майор Вихрь
User Avatar
#666
Auto-translated
Major Vortex; 142878
The action took place on the Outlands map. I occupied the upper part of the map, the Dungeon, and the other two players were eliminated; we agreed not to use towns. As I said, I chose Haggeesh, and the Dungeon player, unsurprisingly, played as the Dungeon. I can't say exactly which week it was. But in my army, there were 17 Cyclops, and I built their dwelling on the 3rd week. There were no plague weeks, so you can roughly estimate the week if it's that important. And in general, we replayed the battle out of curiosity; I just removed the artifacts that boosted initiative beforehand, and I still won, and the losses only increased slightly (unless my memory fails me, the Dungeon player can correct me ;) ).

And as I said, in my opinion, in a prolonged game of "Warlock vs. Orc," the Warlock has no chance against a properly developed Orc. The Warlock's troops can barely hold their ground; usually, one Orc unit would eliminate most of a Dark Elf unit.


Good afternoon, I apologize for the late response, but "better late than never."

It seems that your final battle took place around the 11th-12th week, i.e., the end of the third month. This clarifies a lot. Indeed, at such a late stage of the game, the Dark Elf has very low chances against the Orc, and in your case (with artifacts that boost initiative), it's practically impossible.

But your opponent made too many critical mistakes.

1. He allowed the game to drag on until the end of the 3rd month (when he should have attacked by the 6th or 7th week at the latest).
2. He relied exclusively on Chaos magic.
3. He made the wrong choice of main hero (against Orcs, Leto is definitely the better choice, IMHO).
4. Judging by everything, he didn't upgrade the Tactics perk in the Attack branch.
5. On the 11th-12th week, the hero's level is 22 - too low for the Dark Elf, and for other races as well.
Порою люди не со зла
Творят настолько черные дела,
Что до таких блистательных идей
Не вдруг дойдет и записной Злодей

Темный адепт клана GODS
User Avatar
#667
Auto-translated
Which magic school should I have focused on? I never considered Dark or Light magic as viable options for leveling up because there are hardly any spells to find, and even in a Dragon Utopia, they might not be offered. Plus, it takes a significant amount of time to acquire them, and during that time, the hero doesn't provide any support to the army. I thought I could use Chaos magic to reduce his rage and finish him off with troops. In my opinion, he was perfectly developed: education (mana regeneration), sorcery (arcane knowledge), Chaos, attack, and luck (lucky sorcerer; that's why I chose Vaishana as the main hero), plus all the racial skills. I should have taken tactics, then the Orc wouldn't have had it. And my Chaos magic was excellent: sorcery 30, Earth Shock, and boots to enhance it. The damage was around 3000. So, I didn't need anything else; level 21 was more than enough. But, as I mentioned, half of my army was wiped out before the hero's turn. So, if I had a Letos with any Dark magic spells, it would have been even worse. At least, I managed to disable all four remaining Executioners with Earth Shock. Since then, I've become somewhat disillusioned with magic, even though I thought I was invincible before the battle. So now, when leveling up, I focus on troops first and then on magic.
Армия баранов под предводительством льва сильнее армии львов под предводительством барана.

God save us everyone
Will we burn inside the fires of a thousand suns...
In reply to Vayshan
User Avatar
#668
Auto-translated
Vayshan;148360
Some people pump up Dark magic for the Warlock for some reason, and that really isn't their forte.

Well, young man, you didn't think that through.
Lethos is very effective with Dark magic and Chaos/Summoning. Especially against Orcs. He won't pump up all three types of magic. Slow, Disarming Ray, and Berserk will be available anyway (you'll learn them from the Witches) + what you get in the guild. And don't forget to take the Tactics perk for attack, so that the Orc doesn't wipe out half your army before your turn. And don't let it drag on to week 8+. Otherwise, not only the Horde but also the Sylvans and Gnomes can crush you with almost no chance of winning. And it will be difficult against the others as well.

Added 12 minutes later
Vayshan;149739
And what magic should I have focused on? I never considered Dark/Light magic as an option for leveling up, because there are no spells to be found, even in the Dragon Utopia, and even if you get them, it will take a lot of time to capture it, and in the meantime, the hero doesn't help the army at all. I thought that I would use Chaos to reduce his rage and finish off the troops. In my opinion, he was leveled up perfectly: Education (Magic Attraction), Sorcery (Secret Knowledge), Chaos, Attack, Luck (Lucky Sorcerer, that's why I chose Vaishan as the main character), and all racial skills. Of course, I should have taken Tactics, then the Orc wouldn't have had it. And my Chaos was awesome, Sorcery 30, Earth Shock, and Boots to go with it. The damage was about 3000. So I didn't need anything else, level 21 was enough. But, as I wrote, half of my army died before the hero's turn, so if I had Lethos with any Dark magic spells, it would have been even worse, but at least I knocked out all the Executioners (4 left) with Earth Shock. Since then, I've become disillusioned with magic, although before the battle I thought that I was, figuratively speaking, in a tank. So now, when leveling up, I focus on troops first, and then on magic.

You shouldn't go to extremes. Chaos magic is very effective. But on the third month, Summoning magic is better, and Light and Dark magic are in a league of their own. Especially against the Orc. General Slow and Berserk are your best friends, and Cursed Earth and Plague will reduce the rage, and Summoning will help you. Just don't drag out the game when playing as the Faction.
Порою люди не со зла
Творят настолько черные дела,
Что до таких блистательных идей
Не вдруг дойдет и записной Злодей

Темный адепт клана GODS
User Avatar
#669
Auto-translated
No matter how you look at it, darkness isn't really magic in this game. 2% speaks for itself. By the way, witches don't have Berserk, they have Weakness. That Orc didn't have magic damage. He just had a tactic to get to me as quickly as possible, and he had boots for speed, a tactic, and a war cry for +1 speed. Although, I did mess up with the tactic. And now, if I get a defense skill, I'll level it up instead of magic or any other skill if I already have magic. A Warlock with skilled defense, artifacts for defense, and mass Stone Skin is invincible – no magic is needed; I've tested it.
Армия баранов под предводительством льва сильнее армии львов под предводительством барана.

God save us everyone
Will we burn inside the fires of a thousand suns...
In reply to Vayshan
User Avatar
#670
Auto-translated
Vayshan;149758
No matter how you look at it, darkness is still not magic in the Tower. 2% speaks for itself. By the way, witches don't have Berserk, but rather Scatter. The Orc didn't have magic damage. He just had a tactic to get to me as quickly as possible, and he had boots for speed, a tactic, and a war cry for +1 speed. Although I did mess up with the tactic. And now, if I get defense as a skill, I'll level it up instead of magic or any other skill if magic is already there. A Warlock with skilled defense, artifacts for defense, and mass Stone Skin is invincible – no magic is needed, I've tested it.

Here you are rushing to conclusions again:(

Try to attack Sylvan, Gnome, Human, Orc, Necromancer, or Demon without magic, and you'll get completely crushed. (of course, I mean a player of equal skill).
Порою люди не со зла
Творят настолько черные дела,
Что до таких блистательных идей
Не вдруг дойдет и записной Злодей

Темный адепт клана GODS
User Avatar
#671
Auto-translated
No, I doubt you even tested such a build. If we analyze it, what is the main drawback of the Elves? Every faction has its weaknesses. For the Elves, it's their defense. It's completely absent, both as a skill and as a stat. But if you manage to acquire some defense and, instead of magic artifacts, equip items that boost defense, and then cast mass Stone Skin... how would the Elven troops then compare to the Elven or Human troops? They would even be better – the majority of them have more hit points than their counterparts at similar levels. After that, humans deal much less damage, and the Elves or Dwarves also have relatively low attack power.
Армия баранов под предводительством льва сильнее армии львов под предводительством барана.

God save us everyone
Will we burn inside the fires of a thousand suns...
User Avatar
#672
Auto-translated
Well, if the Elves cast a mass damaging spell... and in terms of ranged attack, they are superior to Tier 2 Elves... the first attack against Tier 2 Elves will be very painful... and the riders might not have time to scatter and hide their troops before you can make them invisible.
In reply to Vayshan
User Avatar
#673
Auto-translated
Vayshan;149824
No, you probably haven't tested this option, have you? If we think about it, what is the main disadvantage of the Wizard faction? After all, every faction has its weaknesses. For Wizards, it's defense. It's completely absent, both as a skill and as a parameter. But if you manage to acquire it, and instead of magic artifacts, you equip artifacts that boost defense, and also cast mass Stone Skin... how will the Wizard troops then be worse than the Elf or Human troops? Even better – the vast majority of them have more hit points among all similar levels. After that, Humans deal much less damage, and Elves or Dwarves also have relatively low attack.

Not quite.
I turned to a power-based build somewhere around 2006, when I encountered a pretty good player using the Academic faction with Counterspell.
But I still always max out summoning magic.

It looks approximately like this:

Expert Attack - Battle Fury + Retribution
Expert Leadership - Rally Troops + Aura of Swiftness
Expert Luck
Expert Education
Advanced Summoning Magic up to Elemental Equilibrium
Initial Invincible - Dark Ritual.

Hero: Sorgan or Kifrah

Total: level 20-21, i.e., 4-5 weeks.

If there's time left, I max out Elemental Vision.

And against Dwarves, a purely magic-based build usually doesn't work.

Here, instead of Education, I take Wizardry, and sometimes instead of Summoning, I take Chaos.

When I took defense instead of magic, they tore me apart.

P.S. You can try taking defense instead of education or wizardry, but, in my opinion, it's less effective
Порою люди не со зла
Творят настолько черные дела,
Что до таких блистательных идей
Не вдруг дойдет и записной Злодей

Темный адепт клана GODS
User Avatar
#674
Auto-translated
My current build is almost the same. I mainly play with "Kifroy," and sometimes I level up "Vengeance." I also level up "Summoning" (without skills), "Luck," "Education," and "Attack" (Berserk - mass acceleration). I always level up "Sense Magic," but I don't level up "Dark Ritual." If "Defense" appears, I level it up instead of something else. I once played against a computer-controlled Orc, and at that stage of the game, he had over a thousand "Kents" (the hero was Haggeesh), and the rest of his troops were in proportion. I had "Vengeance," and my hero just skipped his turns, and the Orc was easily defeated. Although this is impossible in a game against a human, it still happened.
Армия баранов под предводительством льва сильнее армии львов под предводительством барана.

God save us everyone
Will we burn inside the fires of a thousand suns...
In reply to Vayshan
User Avatar
#675
Auto-translated
Vayshan;150022
My current build is almost the same. I mainly play as a Sorcerer, sometimes I level up Retribution. Also, Summoning (without skills), Luck, Education, and Attack (Battle Frenzy - mass haste). I definitely take Sense Element, but I don't take Dark Ritual. If Protection becomes available, I take it instead of something else. I once played against a computer-controlled Orc, and at that stage of the game, he had over a thousand Centaurs (hero Haggeesh) and the rest of the troops in proportion. I had Retribution, and my hero just skipped turns, and the Orc was easily defeated. Although this is impossible in a game against a human player, but still.


Retribution without Dark Ritual is not worth taking. And it gives +25% damage.

But I still believe that without Tier 3 Earth Magic, it's just not possible. The Light faction, due to their initiative and Expert Light, will simply crush you.
And with this build for Tier 3 Earth Magic, the following trick is possible:
Sylvan can, thanks to the alternative upgrade for Druids, raise Spell Power to an acceptable level and defeat Tier 3 Earth Magic with Chaos
Порою люди не со зла
Творят настолько черные дела,
Что до таких блистательных идей
Не вдруг дойдет и записной Злодей

Темный адепт клана GODS
User Avatar
#676
Auto-translated
When playing as Haven, you definitely need to take Dark Ritual. As for Sylvan, I don't think they would want to use a combination with Druids instead of casting a mass speed spell or something else that affects multiple units.
Армия баранов под предводительством льва сильнее армии львов под предводительством барана.

God save us everyone
Will we burn inside the fires of a thousand suns...
User Avatar
#677
Auto-translated
2 Vaishan
Witches cast Berserk in melee combat (whip strike), but by the way, it's quite possible that you've never seen it, because it happens VERY rarely...

I completely agree about the Lesser Golem... Against Orcs, it's the best choice...
You should forget about summoning the Lesser Golem; it's useless to him, like an umbrella to a fish. Chaos magic is much more powerful for him, with attack and spellpower, and that's basically it... An Orc killer is ready...
So many centuries
So many Gods
We were the prisoners of our own fantasy
But now we are marching
Against these Gods
I'm the wizard, I will change it all
Valhalla - Deliverance
Why've you ever forgotten me


19.08.2008 СК Олимпийский.Я запомню это навсегда!!!

Как играть онлайн в Герои 5??Ответ здесь
User Avatar
#678
Auto-translated
I completely agree about the Letos build... Against Orcs, Darkness is the best choice...
We should forget about summoning Letos; it's like giving a fish an umbrella. He needs a more powerful Chaos build, with Attack and Spellpower skills. An Orc killer is ready...
Don't forget about the artifacts. If the AI plays as Letos, the artifacts will be appropriate. You can try to surprise the Orc with your build, so that he fails with his artifacts. But there aren't many alternatives here.
User Avatar
#679
Auto-translated
Here, the most sensible thing is to level up Summoning and Chaos magic. You can definitely handle a single Orc dummy, but it will be difficult against two, so even with just one un-leveled magic skill, you will have an advantage. Moreover, Chain Lightning removes Rage just as well as Poison, and it also deals good damage.
Нет, я же Гитлер.