Tactical techniques for conducting battles in Heroes of Might and Magic II. — General

Kyle

11/28/2007 4:23 PM UTC

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Kenshido;131274

That's not important. By the way, the example is incorrect. The correct example is:

I have druids, the enemy has phoenixes.

or maybe it's better like this:
I have elves and 1 druid, the enemy has phoenixes

Turn 1:
- Phoenixes fly, attack the druid (because he is higher level. The computer always does this)
- I cast Blind on the phoenixes and skip the turn with the elves

Turn 2
- I cast Slow on the phoenixes and attack with the elves

Turn 3 and all subsequent turns
- I cast Blind on the phoenixes and attack with the elves

with a loss of 1 druid.

Kenshido;131274

Without birds, the Wizard simply won't be able to develop. Well, these are my thoughts, and they apply to the Impossible difficulty. Where, after the first 2-3 weeks, it's simply impossible to build anything.

and that's what I'm talking about... Rukh is the most important stack at the beginning of the game...

Кто состоянием своим доволен, тому жить весело. (с)Алекса́ндр Васи́льевич Суво́ров

In reply to Kyle

Kenshido

11/28/2007 4:34 PM UTC

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If the Phoenixes are targeting 1 Druid, then you have no more than 2-3 Elves. Otherwise, they will target the Elves. Also, the Elves must be Grand Elves for the slow effect to work. And if they are Grand Elves, then there are only 1-2 of them, otherwise the Phoenix will target them. If the Elves are regular, their speed is normal, and the slow effect will reduce the Phoenixes' speed to normal, so you won't be able to keep them blinded and attack due to the turn order.

In reply to Inquisitor

Kenshido

11/28/2007 4:47 PM UTC

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Inquisitor;50264

That's true. They often blind a strong unit and then immediately attack. Usually with archers. It's quite common.

Archers never attack a blinded spellcaster if there are sighted units. However, melee units, if they can't reach another target, will attack the blinded unit.

In reply to Kyle

Catch

11/28/2007 6:01 PM UTC

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Kyle;131279

(it attacks him because he is at a higher level. The computer seems to always do this.)

The computer attacks in the following order:

1. Archers
2. Flying units
3. Other units

If there are two or more stacks of the same type (archers, flying units, or others), the computer will attack the strongest one. The strength of a stack is calculated as the product of the unit's strength in peasants and the number of units. In this example, the computer will attack the druid only if there are no more than two grand elves. But you can also take 8, but divide them into 4*2 stacks :)

P.S. This order does not apply to some monsters with unique abilities, such as liches and ghosts. The former usually attack two-cell units, the latter attack the weakest, but not always.

In reply to Kyle

Captain

11/30/2007 7:57 AM UTC

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More about the AI's attack algorithm in battle.

When it's the AI's turn, it analyzes which unit it can attack within its single turn – then it evaluates which of them is an archer (1), a flying unit (2), or an infantry unit (3).
If it can't reach any of our units within one turn, it then evaluates which unit it can reach within two of its turns... and the cycle repeats.

My favorite tactic is to eliminate a lot of elementals on the first day on impossible difficulty using starting troops – sacrificing one gargoyle at a time to prevent neutrals from reaching my centaurs.

The neutrals will initially run towards the unit they can reach – that is, the gargoyles – and only then will they evaluate our centaurs as opponents.

It's especially fun on the second round to lure neutrals back to their starting positions using gargoyles. :)

The same applies to the three heroes.

Дипломатия - искусство говорить собаке "хорошая собачка" до тех пор пока не найдешь подходящую палку.

In reply to Brennan

Captain

11/30/2007 8:11 AM UTC

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Brennan;130789

Yes, in online games, especially on small maps, Necropolis is one of the strongest factions, only Warlocks can defeat them...

That's a bit too categorical :) "Only Warlocks" (with a wink).
What about Knights? They have a bonus – double damage against undead!

As has been said many times, it all depends on the specific situation.

Дипломатия - искусство говорить собаке "хорошая собачка" до тех пор пока не найдешь подходящую палку.

Catch

12/3/2007 3:45 AM UTC

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Captain;131746

More about the AI's attack algorithm in battle.

When it's the AI's turn, it analyzes which unit it can attack within its single turn – then it evaluates which of them is an archer (1), a flyer (2), or an infantry unit (3).
If it can't reach any of our units within one turn, then it evaluates which unit it can reach within two of its turns... and the cycle repeats.

You're wrong here. In Heroes II, if the AI can't reach anyone within one turn, it runs towards archers; if there are none, it goes for flyers; if there are none of those either, it targets the strongest melee unit.

My favorite tactic is to eliminate a lot of elementals on the first day on impossible difficulty using starting troops – sacrificing one gargoyle at a time to prevent neutrals from reaching my knights.

That's a lot of knights needed to eliminate a lot of elementals in 8 shots, isn't it? ;)

Qwerty

12/3/2007 8:48 AM UTC

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I have discovered an exception to this well-known rule regarding the AI's attack order.
Details are available to members of the "Order of the Phoenix" clan in the internal clan forum.

Орден Феникса – харизматический :) лидер

Qwerty

12/4/2007 7:52 AM UTC

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2 Catch
The described tactic was used by the best players on our forum when completing the 7th stage of the Van Cunningham tournament. It was an edited version of the well-known map Beltway. Of course, the gargoyles must be within range of the stompers; only then will they return to their positions. The centaurs are not taken from a single hero; they usually receive assistance from other units (for example, orcs in the case of a barbarian hero).
By the way, if the AI cannot reach any unit within one turn, it will run to the archers, then to the FOOTMEN!!, and only after that - to the flyers.

Орден Феникса – харизматический :) лидер

In reply to Catch

Captain

12/4/2007 12:27 PM UTC

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Catch;132508

You're wrong here. In the second game, if the AI can't reach anyone in one turn, it runs towards archers. If there are no archers, it runs towards flyers. If there are no flyers either, it runs towards the strongest slow-moving unit.

How many units are needed to take down a group of elementals in 8 shots? ;)

Qwerty Wrote about an exception - but it needs to be checked whether neutral units go to the infantry or the flyer - depending on the distance to both... if the flyers are in 2 turns, and the infantry in 3, will the neutral units still go to the infantry?

Regarding the 8 shots... 9-10 units come with the hero... let's say we have 4 heroes and we're attacking with a Knight or Barbarian... 40 archers (units or a mix of units and archers/orcs) dealing 2 damage each = 80 damage, that's 2 elementals per turn... multiplied by 8 shots... 16 elementals taken down with arrows... the rest (a few) are finished in melee combat with gargoyles and units.

Дипломатия - искусство говорить собаке "хорошая собачка" до тех пор пока не найдешь подходящую палку.

Qwerty

12/4/2007 12:32 PM UTC

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Yes, neutrals will still move towards the infantry. Even if it takes 2 turns to reach the flying unit, and 4 turns to reach the infantry. Exactly, and the rest can be finished off in melee combat with goblins:)))

Орден Феникса – харизматический :) лидер

In reply to Captain

Alex_R

12/4/2007 8:28 PM UTC

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Captain;132998

about 8 shots...9-10 centaurs come...let's say we have 4 heroes and attack with a Knight or Barbarian...40 archers (centaurs or centaurs and archers/orcs) with 2 damage each = 80 damage, that's 2 elementals per turn...multiply by 8 shots...16 elementals with arrows...the rest (a few) in melee with gargoyles and centaurs.

Oh, we're getting carried away ;)
1. A hero gets 6-10 centaurs (on average 8), so from 4 heroes, there are only 32!
2. Centaurs deal 1-2 damage, on average 1.5! But a centaur has 3 attacks, and an elemental has about 8 defense! So, the damage will be barely 1 elemental - or even less, somewhere around 35 damage.
So, even if there are only 20 elementals, and we have another 10-12 gargoyles with the centaurs, then at best, we can kill about 10 elementals! :)

In reply to Alex_R

снайп

12/4/2007 8:52 PM UTC

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OMG... why does the computer return so often? If it doesn't reach the Gargoyle within one turn, it will move towards the Knights. Has it always been like this? I don't remember how it behaves towards weaker units; for example, if the nearest units are a Swordsman and a Peasant, which one will it attack?

In reply to Qwerty

Catch

12/5/2007 2:23 AM UTC

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Qwerty;132928

2 Catch
The technique described was used by the best players on our forum when completing the 7th stage of the Van Cunningham tournament. It was an edited version of the well-known map, Beltway. Of course, the gargoyles must be within range of the stompers; only then will they return to their places. The centaurs are not taken from a single hero; they usually receive help from other units (for example, orcs, in the case of a barbarian hero).
By the way, if the computer cannot reach any units in one turn, it will run to the archers, then to the FOOT soldiers!!, and only after that - to the flyers.

I understand everything. But as a universal tool for defeating elementals, especially on impossible difficulty, where there are usually only enough resources for one hero on the first day, I wouldn't recommend it. It all depends on the map. In Beltway, as far as I remember, there are two heroes at the start, and there are also chests, so you can use this to your advantage.

In reply to Alex_R

Qwerty

12/5/2007 7:48 AM UTC

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Alex_R;133214

Oh, we're getting carried away ;)
1. The hero gets 6-10 centaurs (on average 8), so from 4 heroes, there are 32 in total!
2. Centaurs deal 1-2 damage, on average 1.5! But a centaur has 3 attacks, and an elemental has about 8 defense! So, the damage will be barely 1 elemental - or even less, somewhere around 35 damage.
So, even if there are only 20 elementals, and we also have 10-12 gargoyles against the centaurs, then at best, about 10 elementals can be defeated! :)

Captain is right, - Alex_R, remember your own walkthrough or vbn's from the seventh stage of the Van Canningham tournament.
The attack will most likely be done by a Barbarian, so the difference in attack and defense will be minimized. The remaining elementals can be finished off with goblins.

2 Kenshido
Is this your only nickname? Is the legendary Himuro Kenshin not a relative?

2 снайп
If the nearest units are 1 peasant and 1 swordsman, then any unit except witches will attack the swordsman. I haven't researched the behavior of witches.

Орден Феникса – харизматический :) лидер