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did you know that Ivan the Terrible was excommunicated from the church for a year for killing his son?
Арчибальд
Posts from Good and evil.
Арчибальд
Драко
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What is the lesser evil? Who is capable of determining the boundaries beyond which the lesser becomes the greater? And the same applies to good. Who defines the line? Do not judge, and you will not be judged.
The eternal question: who are the judges?
Yes, if you want, I will judge. I will decide who to punish for good deeds and who to reward for good intentions.
I will define the line.
You know why? Because humanity has a vast cultural experience, including moral experience. Aren't we taught from childhood what is good and what is bad? Don't we acquire the necessary knowledge about morality in the process of socialization? Without it, we would not be able to become full members of society, we would not be able to integrate into society.
That is why morality, good, and evil are things that are supported by the entire society. And even with the advent (such a long-awaited:rolleyes:) of democracy, which brings with it a change in morality, nothing changes - we still consider homosexuals, murderers, and others to be evil. The degree of evil changes.
As a bearer of experience, I am quite capable of applying it in practice: to judge and be judged.
P.S.: Society is not a crowd. It is a highly organized organism.
P.P.S.: Of course, all this is debatable. But I am very annoyed by the questions: who are the judges? what should we do? etc.
eXeCuToR
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Actually, is there a line between good and evil? Show it to me then. I don't see where questionable good transitions into insignificant evil.
Besides, Draco said it well – "Who are the judges?". And from whose point of view should we consider it?
Step aside from the way of a better man than you
So you fall at his feet hes the one who betrays you
Its the servants devotion for the decay
Stand up
There are no flowers on your grave
There are no chains
There I keep chanting for the forgotten name © Amorphis
So you fall at his feet hes the one who betrays you
Its the servants devotion for the decay
Stand up
There are no flowers on your grave
There are no chains
There I keep chanting for the forgotten name © Amorphis
Драко
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But is there really a line between good and evil? Show it to me then. I don't see where questionable good transitions into insignificant evil.
Besides, Draco said it well - "Who are the judges?". And from whose point of view should we consider it?
eXeCuToR, what I meant was that by asking this question, a person will never find an answer, will never start acting. "Who are the judges?", "What should we do?" and other such questions put a person in the position of Buridan's ass. Meaning, stuck between two haystacks. And while he contemplates which haystack is tastier and more appealing, someone more decisive, bolder, and not burdened by the ponderings of the Russian intellectual, takes what he wants, incidentally taking the ass with him (sorry for the rudeness, but isn't that how it is?).
Let's look at history: the intelligentsia (and we will consider it as the bearer of these questions) appeared with the penetration of the West into Russian cultural life (i.e., when theaters began to stage performances in the Western style, the upper class began to speak foreign languages, etc.) - this was the processing of our elite, its degeneration, because, having rejected Orthodoxy (Islam), the intelligentsia did not find anything to replace it with, and has been dangling in a suspended state between something and something else ever since. Hence these questions, which essentially mean the search for the meaning of life. Only these questions lead to a dead end, because they are amorphous, and there are more answers to them than haystacks. And each one is valid (in the sense that it is tasty).
That is why the question: "Who are the judges?" is harmful.
What to replace it with: there are two paths. The first is the Western one, let's call it the path of primacy, which does not think about anything, neither about good nor about evil, but performs actions based on what is more useful (while more useful for the body; the soul is an atavism).
The second path is religion and its various manifestations. Here, both good and evil are clear, defined (but at the same time, freedom of choice remains!).
Perhaps there is a third path. I don't know yet.
This is essentially what I meant when I spoke about the eternal question.
Tengro
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Heh. And I don't believe in any of the religions.
And I think the path of supremacy is nonsense.
There's a simple phrase: "Do what you must, and be what may."
And I don't agree with the previous author's opinion – that the West is harmful. In what way? Because it teaches us to REJOICE?
And I don't consider religion to be salvation. Faith – maybe. RELIGION – no.
And I don't think the question "Who are the judges?" is stupid. After all, everyone has their own truth. And each of us can judge. But it will NOT be the absolute truth. And I bear the responsibility for my mistakes alone.
Do what you must, and be what may.
"Мы не герои. Мы сильны. Мы упрямы. Мы стараемся соблюдать условия контракта. Но мы не умираем за проигравших." Костоправ
"Мы не поклонники честной игры, если ее можно избежать. Девиз Отряда – максимальная эффективность при минимальном риске." Костоправ
OptiMAL
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Heh. And I don't believe in any of the religions.
And I think the path of the primate is nonsense.
There's a simple phrase: "Do what you must, and let whatever will be, be."
And I don't think religion is salvation. Faith, maybe. But not RELIGION.
And I don't think the question "Who are you to judge?" is stupid. Because everyone has their own truth. And each of us can judge. But it won't be the absolute truth. And I alone bear the burden for my mistakes.
If each of us judges, then no one will judge anyone.
What is truth?
We only bear the burden for our mistakes when those mistakes are purely personal. Usually, our mistakes also affect those around us, and we will not be the only ones to bear them. Sincerely
:D
Tengro
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Ha. My mistake – so I’ll fix it.
Regarding “Do what you must, and let the consequences be what they may” – this isn’t a call to go with the flow. It’s a call to find your Path and to follow it. In other words, “Live a life worth living.”
About religion and faith. Ha. Christianity is a religion. But what about faith in Christ?
Christianity has a lot of extraneous things. Like – “Actors are servants of the devil” and so on. Faith in Christ calls for living a worthy life, remaining human, and helping others – not for burning books and burning people for heresy.
Regarding many truths. And why do you think some people don’t understand good and evil? Because of the MULTIPLICITY of both concepts. Both good and evil are relative things. But honor and conscience are not.
How do you call the murder of one innocent person for the benefit of millions?
"Мы не герои. Мы сильны. Мы упрямы. Мы стараемся соблюдать условия контракта. Но мы не умираем за проигравших." Костоправ
"Мы не поклонники честной игры, если ее можно избежать. Девиз Отряда – максимальная эффективность при минимальном риске." Костоправ
OptiMAL
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About religion and faith. Ha. Christianity is a religion. But what about faith in Christ?
Christianity has a lot of extraneous elements.
Something like – "Actors are servants of the devil" and in that spirit. Faith in Christ calls for living a worthy life, remaining human, and helping others – not for burning books and executing people for heresy.
Regarding many truths. And what do you think, why do some not understand good and evil? Because of the MULTIPLICITY of both concepts. Both good and evil are relative things. But honor and conscience are not.
How to call the murder of one innocent person for the benefit of millions?
:D
Драко
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Ha. My mistake – so I’ll fix it.
Regarding “Do what you must, and let the consequences be what they may” – this is not an invitation to go with the flow. It’s an invitation to find your Path and follow it. In other words, “Live a worthy life.”
About religion and faith. Ha. Christianity is a religion. But what about faith in Christ?
Christianity has a lot of extraneous things. Like – “Actors are servants of the devil” and so on. Faith in Christ calls for living a worthy life, remaining human, and helping others – not for burning books and executing people for heresy.
Regarding many truths. And what do you think, why don’t some people understand good and evil? Because of the MULTIPLICITY of both concepts. Both good and evil are relative things. But honor and conscience are not.
How do you call the murder of one innocent person for the benefit of millions?
1. You won’t be able to fix every mistake.
2. There are mistakes that are better not to make at all.
3. “Do what you must, and let the consequences be what they may” has a different meaning (as OptiMAL said) than “live a worthy life.” Completely different.
4. Faith and religion. You can simply believe, but religion also gives a lot. Will we argue about whether rituals make life easier, allowing you to rely on something? And when did Christianity as a religion call for burning and so on? That never happened (learn about the essence of the religion). People who used Christianity and faith in Christ for their own benefit called for this (by the way, in the West :).)
5. Honor and conscience are just as relative concepts as good and evil. Something absolute exists only with maximalists. By the way, religion (and I consider it inseparable from faith; you can consider faith separately from religion, but not vice versa) provides the most acceptable concepts of good and evil.
6. Now a little about the West.
Song: Don’t worry, be happy, and another one, one of the latest: Relax! Take it easy – no translation needed. Now, who will say what will happen to children who are subjected to this kind of influence every day? Degradation.
Furthermore, those who have channel 2x2 know that there is a cartoon called “Multreality.” It deals with all sorts of topics about sex. And one of the characters is a hero (like Superman) – a pedophile. Great, guys! Now you know what a hero should be! So don’t resist, relax, enjoy it. He’s a hero! – Is that what my children will tell my grandchildren?
Furthermore, same-sex marriages in the West. No comment.
In short, the West is harmful precisely because it teaches you to be happy! Look at their joys – these joys are carnal: eat, have sex, watch some movie. Their joys reduce us to primates (they have long since become them). That’s the problem.
And now answer me, Tengro, when was the last time you went to the theater/opera/ballet, and to a classic performance, not to some modern abomination like Pelevin or someone else? And when did you go to the cinema to watch a foreign blockbuster?
7. Aha, the last thing – when trees are cut down, splinters fly. Did God pity the righteous when he destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah?
OptiMAL
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Quote Draco, it's a long text, so I'll break it down into points:
4. If you believe in salvation based on something other than the faith offered by religion, it means you believe in science, and that faith only applies to the life you currently have. As for what happens after death, where to go – atheists don't know. It seems to me that they are afraid of death.
Religion builds faith on today's life, tomorrow's life, and the afterlife.
5. Honor and conscience are 100% a personal choice, because it is a purely personal decision. Of course, he may break the law, which would be wrong, but for him, it might be a matter of honor, etc.
4. If you believe in salvation based on something other than the faith offered by religion, it means you believe in science, and that faith only applies to the life you currently have. As for what happens after death, where to go – atheists don't know. It seems to me that they are afraid of death.
Religion builds faith on today's life, tomorrow's life, and the afterlife.
5. Honor and conscience are 100% a personal choice, because it is a purely personal decision. Of course, he may break the law, which would be wrong, but for him, it might be a matter of honor, etc.
:D
eXeCuToR
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I completely agree with Tengro in message 188.
Optimal, I didn't quite understand what you consider faith to be. Maybe I read something wrong, but you seem to say that faith is inseparable from religion, yet you also say that an atheist is a person who believes in themselves, which is also a form of faith. For example, I don't believe in any deity, but I believe in myself and in luck. Is that religion? No, it's faith.
Draco, as you put it, this "processing" is not only popular in the West. Just listen to what our so-called "pop music" sings – it's simply an instrument for creating idiots. And the main thing is that it's an effective instrument... So, these things don't only come from the West. Besides, it's unlikely that you can escape the influence of the West in any way. The Iron Curtain? Nonsense, how many more years can it last? Moreover, people will strive to catch at least something from this forbidden, inaccessible thing... And most people will like it, because forbidden fruit is sweet, and who cares about its quality?
Step aside from the way of a better man than you
So you fall at his feet hes the one who betrays you
Its the servants devotion for the decay
Stand up
There are no flowers on your grave
There are no chains
There I keep chanting for the forgotten name © Amorphis
So you fall at his feet hes the one who betrays you
Its the servants devotion for the decay
Stand up
There are no flowers on your grave
There are no chains
There I keep chanting for the forgotten name © Amorphis
OptiMAL
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Optimal, I didn't quite understand what you consider faith. Maybe I read something wrong, but you seemed to say that faith is inseparable from religion, yet you also say that an atheist is a person who believes in themselves, which is also a form of faith. For example, I don't believe in any deity, but I believe in myself and in luck. Is that religion? No, it's faith.
Belief in religion means that you believe in God and believe that God will be with you after death, you believe that He will heal you, etc.
Belief in oneself is not that kind of faith. It's simply that you are confident that you can or cannot do something.
:D
eXeCuToR
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Well, I basically agree with you here, but these are your words: "How can you have faith without religion?" What do they mean?
Step aside from the way of a better man than you
So you fall at his feet hes the one who betrays you
Its the servants devotion for the decay
Stand up
There are no flowers on your grave
There are no chains
There I keep chanting for the forgotten name © Amorphis
So you fall at his feet hes the one who betrays you
Its the servants devotion for the decay
Stand up
There are no flowers on your grave
There are no chains
There I keep chanting for the forgotten name © Amorphis
OptiMAL
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but these are your words: "How can you have faith without religion?" What do they mean?
In my previous post, I specified which faith this applies to.
:D
eXeCuToR
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I think I understand what you're trying to say. Faith is faith, and there's really no difference between believing in a religion and believing in flying pink elephants. The main thing is that a person believes in it with a certain degree of dedication, and may even be willing to die for their belief. I would say that religion cannot exist without faith, but the reverse is not necessarily true.
Step aside from the way of a better man than you
So you fall at his feet hes the one who betrays you
Its the servants devotion for the decay
Stand up
There are no flowers on your grave
There are no chains
There I keep chanting for the forgotten name © Amorphis
So you fall at his feet hes the one who betrays you
Its the servants devotion for the decay
Stand up
There are no flowers on your grave
There are no chains
There I keep chanting for the forgotten name © Amorphis