Which level 7 creature is the best, and why? — Polls

badping

18 years ago

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Ley;128969

Strange... My damage is showing as -77.

I don't know what's going on here. I also initially thought I was making some kind of mistake: maybe the Hero has an attack skill, or a secondary attack skill.
I checked several times - nothing. My hero is Siila, and the enemy is also an elementalist with no secondary combat skills.

Anyway, see the screenshot (though, I don't think this difference is that significant):

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Ley

18 years ago

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2 badping: Well, it's clear that the difference is negligible, but I'd still like to understand this. Maybe the terrain adds some percentage to the damage? I tested it on sand; you used grass. What do you think?

In reply to badping

Vanechka

18 years ago

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badping;128959

You have problems with arithmetic. :) This isn't directed at me...
However, if you want, create a map in the editor and see how I did it. And I'm sure that after that, you'll retract your words.

Those are two fingers pointing at asphalt.
We look at the wondrous miracle, marveling at the wondrous wonder:

We scratch our heads, open our arithmetic textbook: yeeeeeessss, so much new information! It turns out that if you calculate 80% with an abacus with zero hero defense and 80% with 50 defense, you get such different numbers...

Don't forget to apologize, by the way.

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badping

18 years ago

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Don't forget to apologize, by the way.

Please forgive me for you having trouble with arithmetic. :)

Well, it's clear that the difference is insignificant, but I'd still like to figure this out. Maybe the terrain adds some percentage to the damage? I tested it on sand, but you're on grass, what do you think?

It's very possible... it seems like grass is the "native" ground for the Arcs. Maybe there's a bonus hidden here too.

Vanechka

18 years ago

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Badpin, are you having problems with the archiving software? Load the map, start it as a multiplayer game, and try to hit the Archmage with the monster twice.

badping

18 years ago

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Well, I took a look. You set both Heroes' Attack and Defense to under 50. Of course, in this case, the Fiend will deal much more damage because its damage is percentage-based and depends on reducing defense.

But what does this prove, in your opinion? :) Secondly, you argued with me without mentioning these points. And I told you from the very beginning that I was talking about a battle where both Heroes have 0 Attack and 0 Defense, i.e., as if the creatures are fighting completely without their help.

Vanechka

18 years ago

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And I told you from the very beginning about the 50. It proves the strength of the creatures in the game, not in a controlled environment, and also shows your inattentiveness.

badping

18 years ago

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And I told you from the very beginning about 50. This proves the strength of the creatures in the game, not in a controlled environment, and also shows your inattentiveness.

Well, let's not talk about inattentiveness! :)
What did I write in response to your paraphrase of my first post (which, by the way, is very impolite and rude, in my opinion)?

However, if you want, create a map in the editor and check how I did it. And I'm sure that after that you will retract your words.

In principle, we just didn't quite understand each other, and I should have expressed myself more clearly. :smile15:

In general, I wouldn't say that this clearly demonstrates the strength of the Archdevils in the game. First, I highly doubt that the owner of the Archdevils will have equally high Attack and Defense values. After all, for the Barbarians, Attack increases, but Defense is almost always poor. And this means that the Archangel will deal high damage because of this.
Secondly, this is in favor of the creatures - there will probably be much more of them than Archangels. After all, being placed in the 1st or 2nd week, they will significantly outnumber the Angels.

But again, the advantage in a battle with the Archangel doesn't give anything. What's the point of sending your Angels to fight these walking excavators? It's probably easier to shoot them with crossbows or impale them. :)

Therefore, perhaps we cannot say anything definite about this issue with such tests. And comparing the strength of creatures in the style of "King of the Ring" is, I agree, stupid and useless.

Cyclopsking

18 years ago

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By how much does the attack skill increase damage?

Yser

18 years ago

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Archangels – that’s my answer. But honestly, Titans dominate in castle defense. Devils have no counterattacks. The hippos have this thing where they have 80% resistance, and that really helps on HL maps with long battles. Well, a hydra is a hydra; it just attacks everything with no counterattack… So, how do you choose? Each one has its own advantages.

Vanechka

18 years ago

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I agree, our examples don't prove anything. The rephrasing – yes, I was hoping it would provoke you a bit. But since you yourself understand that this discussion is more of a lighthearted exchange of ideas and you're writing in a didactic and slightly teasing style, then IMHO, it's not rude, but rather a perfectly acceptable response within the established boundaries of politeness. No offense?

In reply to Vanechka

badping

18 years ago

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Vanechka;129054

I agree, your example and mine don't prove anything. The rephrasing – yes, I was hoping it would provoke you a bit. But since you yourself understand that this discussion is more of a lighthearted exploration, and you're writing in a didactic and slightly teasing style, I think it's not rude, but rather a perfectly acceptable response within the established boundaries of politeness. No offense?

Okay. :)

Well, it's clear that the difference is insignificant, but I'd still like to understand this. Maybe the terrain adds some percentage to the damage? I tested it on sand; you tested it on grass, right? What do you think?

So, I've tested all of this, and I've made a discovery for myself. It seems like an obvious fact, but it was a complete surprise to me. In short, it turns out that on their native terrain, all creatures gain +1 not only to speed but also to Attack and Defense skills.
This explains the increased damage of Archangels on grass (80 instead of 77.5 according to calculations: 5% of 50 is exactly 2.5).

How awful: I had no idea about this until today. (Well, except for the fact that speed is increased, of course.)

In reply to MicroAtomic

Nelyud'

18 years ago

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MicroAtomic;59630

Titans: health: 300
damage: 40-60
Archangels: health: 250
damage: 50
Archangels are worse. I checked myself. With starting skills, they die faster than Titans (even though they go first).:smile32:

When checking, take 2 heroes with zero attack and defense, no attack and armorer skill (or defense; depending on the translation), and no leadership or luck. Then the Titan will die faster. Archangels are the best, followed by Archdevils.

Added 9 minutes later

eXeCuToR;122142

...and regarding Archdevils, what does "until they crawl over" mean? They move before Archangels...
Since when?:eek:

In reply to badping

Ley

18 years ago

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badping;129077

It seems like an obvious fact, but it came as a complete surprise to me. Basically, it turns out that on their native land, all creatures gain +1 not only to speed but also to Attack and Defense skills.
This explains the increased damage of Archangels on grass (80 instead of 77.5 according to calculations: 5% of 50 is exactly 2.5).

How terrible: I had no idea about this until today.

That's where the whole thing is. My suspicions were confirmed :). Once again, practice has proven its significant superiority over theory ;)