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Posts from Heroes 5.5 WarGame Edition - Tactical Edition.
Poll results will be visible after you vote or when the poll closes.
Nargott
4 years ago
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There are links from the previous page:
Wargame Tactics 2.0 alfa - the mod itself (alpha version 2.0), place it in the data folder.
H5_GameWGE - the executable file, place it in the bin folder, and launch the game through it.
Currently, the mod is only relevant for duel mode.
When a balanced release of duels is available (without the alpha version), I will update the links and the topic header.
Nargott
4 years ago
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Updated magic, in the next release:
Pokes:
1 tier) 20% per hero level (in duels 2 creatures = 10-30 HP) 2 tier) 10% per hero level (in duels 1 creature = 12-30 HP) 3 tier) 8% per hero level (in duels 80% of the creature = 12-24 HP) 4 tier) 6% per hero level (in duels 60% of the creature = 12-24 HP) 5 tier) 4% per hero level (in duels 40% of the creature = 10-20 HP) 6 tier) 2% per hero level (in duels 20% of the creature = 10-32 HP) 7 tier) 1% per hero level (in duels 10% of the creature = 7-25 HP)
Chaos Magic:
0 Magic Arrow = 3 x (SP + 0/2/4/6) 0 Spikes = 2 x (SP + 0/3/6/9)
1 Fireball = 3 x (SP + 0/2/4/6) 2 Boulder = 6 x (SP + 0/2/4/6)
3 Ring of Fire = 4 x (SP + 0/2/4/6) 5 Lightning Bolt = 10 x (SP + 0/1/2/3)
6 Meteor = 3 x (SP + 0/3/6/9) 10 Chain Lightning = 10 x (SP + 0/1/2/3)
15 Disintegration = 10 x (SP + 0/3/6/9)
4 Fire Wall (for Summoning) = 6 x SP, for 1/2/3/4 rounds 8 Freeze (for Dark) = 6/8/10/12 x SP, +100% physical damage for 1 round 12 Armageddon (for Light) = 6 x (SP + 0/2/4/6)
4 Earthquake (for Chaos): damage (1 - 2) x 50 x SP 8 Hive (for Light): initiative = 15, expert Wasps (50% repulsion, SP damage), starting initiative 50-100%, health = 6/9/12/15 x SP, Defense = 10 + hero level (duels 20) 12 Raise Dead (for Dark) = 10 x (SP + 0/3/6/9), no left health penalties
Light Magic:
0 Dodge = 60% arrow protection for 2/4/6/8 rounds (global - on all) 0 Bless = maximum damage for 2/4/6/8 rounds (global - on all)
1 Stone Skin = +(SP + 4) to defense for 1/2/3/4 rounds (area - 4x4) 2 Righteous Might = +(SP + 4) to attack for 1/2/3/4 rounds (area - 4x4)
3 Haste = +10% x (SP + 4) to initiative for 1/2/3/4 rounds (area - 4x4) 5 Exorcism = 100% removal of negative effects from your own stack (area - 4x4)
6 Teleport 10 Antimagic = Removes all magical effects from any stack + Magic Immunity for 1/2/3/4 rounds
15 Resurrection = 15 x (SP + 0/2/4/6), no left health penalties
4 Regeneration (for Summoning) = 10% x SP of creatures, duration 1/2/3/4 rounds 8 Divine Vengeance (for Chaos) = 15/20/25/30 x Kills 12 Holy Word (for Dark) = 1/2/3/4 x (SP + 6)
Dark Magic:
0 Forgetfulness = 60% of creatures do not shoot or retaliate against attacks for 1/2/3/4 rounds (global - on all) 0 Curse = minimum damage for 1/2/3/4 rounds (global - on all)
1 Weakness = -(SP + 4) to attack for 2/4/6/8 rounds (area - 4x4) 2 Destroying Ray = -(SP + 1/2/3/4) to defense, stacks (area - 4x4)
3 Slow = -60% to initiative for 2/4/6/8 rounds (area - 4x4) 5 Plague = 3 x (SP + 9) damage for 1/2/3/4 rounds (area - 4x4)
6 Blindness = 0.5 x (SP + 0/1/2/3) rounds, on expert the enemy does not retaliate against attacks 10 Berserker = attacks nearest target with 100% damage (always for 1 turn)
15 Subjugation = 50% initiative + control for 0.25 x (SP + 0/1/2/3) rounds, on expert can target 7 tier creatures
4 Misfortune (for Chaos) = -4/6/8/10 to luck and morale for SP rounds 8 Vampirism (for Light) = 100% vampirism and undead for 2/4/6/8 rounds 12 Death Wave (for Dark) = 3/4/5/6 x SP
Added after 34 minutes Buffs and debuffs are now at an unmatched level, even by WGE standards. And this is pleasant - no version of Heroes has ever had such strong buffs and debuffs. Nor has there been a fundamental ability to strengthen them as sorcery increases. In the foreign MMH5.5, although a similar dependency has been introduced, it is very weak, as are the buffs/debuffs themselves.
For example, expert Haste (3 mana) at top-tier 9 sorcery increases initiative by 2.3 times for 4 rounds (and under the Archon channel at 14 sorcery, by 2.8 times for 4 rounds). The most powerful Haste from previous versions of WGE increased initiative by 2.5 times, but only for 2.5 rounds (under the Druid channel for 3 rounds).
Why so much? Because Chaos is quite strong and at top-tier 9 sorcery, expert Lightning Bolt (5 mana) kills about 50% of the stack. Under such conditions, buffs must be very powerful (up to +50% to stack strength) to remain on the same level. Chaos itself is balanced almost perfectly, which is evident in the confrontation with the raw power of Orcs, and it cannot be weakened in any way.
Added after 2 hours 23 minutes Actually, it's interesting to compare the buffs and debuffs with the MMH5.5 project, since it also applies the dependency of the effect on SP, but in a weak form. We will compare the average SP in duels = 6 with the average SP = 24 in MMH5.5, and similarly 6 knowledge in WGE (30 mana) with 24 knowledge in MMH5.5 (240 mana). The proportions are chosen in a 1:4 ratio (10% per unit difference in WGE versus 2.5% in MMH5.5).
Expert Haste in MMH5.5 = +(25% + 0.25% x SP) for 1.5 + 0.1 x SP round = +31% initiative for 3.9 rounds (at SP = 24), cost 6 mana (global on all for 24 mana) Expert Haste in WGE = +(40% + 10% x SP) for 4 rounds = +100% initiative for 4 rounds (at SP = 6), cost 3 mana x8 = 24 mana in MMH5.5 terms (area 4x4 for 6 x8 = 48 mana)
Expert Skin in MMH5.5 = +(6 + 0.33 x SP) for 1 + 0.1 x SP round = +14 for 4 rounds = +35% defense for 3.4 rounds (at SP = 24), cost 6 mana (global on all for 24 mana) Expert Skin in WGE = +(4 + SP) for 4 rounds = +10 for 4 rounds = +100% defense for 4 rounds (at SP = 6), cost 1 mana x8 = 8 mana in MMH5.5 terms (area 4x4 for 2 x8 = 16 mana)
Expert Might in MMH5.5 = +(6 + 0.33 x SP) for 1 + 0.1 x SP round = +14 for 4 rounds = +35% attack for 3.4 rounds (at SP = 24), cost 8 mana (global on all for 32 mana) Expert Might in WGE = +(4 + SP) for 4 rounds = +10 for 4 rounds = +100% attack for 4 rounds (at SP = 6), cost 2 mana x8 = 16 mana in MMH5.5 terms (area 4x4 for 4 x8 = 32 mana)
Expert Slow in MMH5.5 = -(20% + 0.25% x SP) for 1.5 + 0.1 x SP round = -26% initiative for 3.9 rounds (at SP = 30), cost 6 mana (global on all for 24 mana) Expert Slow in WGE = -60% initiative for 8 rounds, cost 3 mana x8 = 24 mana in MMH5.5 terms (area 4x4 for 6 x8 = 48 mana)
Expert Ray in MMH5.5 = -(6 + 0.1 x SP) = -8 = -17% defense (at SP = 24), cost 6 mana (area 4x4 for 24 mana) Expert Ray in WGE = -(4 + SP) = -10 = -50% defense (at SP = 6), cost 2 mana x8 = 16 mana in MMH5.5 terms (area 4x4 for 4 x8 = 32 mana)
Expert Weakness in MMH5.5 = -(6 + 0.33 x SP) for 1 + 0.1 x SP round = -14 for 4 rounds = -26% attack for 3.4 rounds (at SP = 24), cost 8 mana (global on all for 32 mana) Expert Weakness in WGE = -(4 + SP) for 4 rounds = -10 for 4 rounds = -50% attack for 8 rounds (at SP = 6), cost 1 mana x8 = 8 mana in MMH5.5 terms (area 4x4 for 2 x8 = 16 mana)
Conclusions: targeted buffs and debuffs in WGE are 2-3 times stronger and more expensive (and sometimes longer) and are 3-10 times more dependent on sorcery. Compared to this, the dependence on sorcery in MMH5.5 is very low - you need to apply at least 3 mass castings to convert 100% sorcery into physical stats, and 4 castings to gain an advantage through sorcery. In WGE, you can convert 100% sorcery into physical stats in just 1 mass casting (and gain an advantage in 2) - however, the fundamental difference is that here the casting is area-based, meaning there are increased positioning requirements.
In both projects, creature speeds are reduced (in WGE directly, and in MMH5.5 through an increased battlefield - which leads to the same effect: units don't reach immediately). In WGE, half of the melee units received the heavy class (50% defense against charge attacks), while in MMH5.5, all units received +30% health. In WGE, damages are also increased and many abilities are many times more powerful (for example, Knights at full charge do +300% damage, while in MMH5.5 only +30%). Also, comparing the castings shows that magic in WGE is many times more powerful and each casting literally turns the tide of battle, while in MMH5.5, casting occurs with a slow accumulation of advantage.
Thus, the combat in WGE is much sharper and more dynamic, while in MMH5.5 it is much softer and calmer. In WGE, there are a bunch of things, each of which can "break" the balance if used correctly, while in MMH5.5, everything is smoothed out to avoid "breaking" the balance at all costs. This is perhaps the fundamental difference in balance between the two projects.
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New idea:
There is a practically useless option in the game - hero defense. I think, with scripts it is technically possible to give a +50% bonus to the hero's defense when using the "Defend" command (from +1 to +4 at defense 3-9 in duels). That is, while the hero is defending, the hero's army receives less damage from the enemy's physical attacks. At the same time, in full analogy with units, when subsequently using the "Wait" command, the defensive bonus will be extended for another 50% of the round. Since scripts will be used, this feature will not be in the next release, but possibly in the future.
Yes. Scripts can now be used in battle. There are two questions here: - Will changes to hero characteristics be synchronized with the battle (and the characteristics of the units)? - How to track whether the hero activated Defense or Wait.
In my opinion, the main difficulty lies in the second point - because it is impossible to get the current position on the ATB.
If it is possible to track Defense and Wait for machines, it would also be interesting to implement repair for them (for example, 25% of maximum HP for Defense or each subsequent Wait).
Hello, how are you doing?
When should we expect the release?
In my opinion, the feature with the blocked hero is too significant; it would be better to postpone it to the next version.
Nargott
4 years ago
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Hello! I was recently shocked by the unfolding war, until I got to the mod.
Update: the situation seems to be calming down, and if there is no new escalation, I will return to development.
Алисгам
4 years ago
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I can't download the mod; it says I don't have access to the files.
Nargott
4 years ago
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Hello everyone! I've returned to active development; at this stage, I have finalized the unit class scheme. Most of the information below has already been discussed previously (except for the scheme itself), but it makes sense to describe everything together for a complete picture.
Unit Classes and Types
Features of this scheme:
1. All units are divided into 2 categories: Large and small. Each category contains 3 classes: Light, Heavy, and Ranged. Compared to the original, a new addition is the Heavy class, which takes only 50% damage from enemy attacks made while moving (it does not protect against stationary attacks, counterattacks, or ranged shots).
2. Within each class, there are several speed groups (from 3 to 5). Compared to the original, flyers have received higher speed groups (speed 6 for small and 7-8 for large), while ground troops have been significantly slowed down (speeds 3-5 for small and 4-6 for large). Additionally, fast ranged units have appeared, including flyers.
3. Within each speed group, units are divided into types by initiative: Power (6-8 initiative), Standard (9-11 initiative), and Active* (12-14 initiative). Unlike the original, low-initiative troops (including 6 initiative) are widely represented here, and they also possess increased strength. *In the scheme, Active units are called Rushers; these terms are interchangeable (earlier version)
4. Within each speed group, units are also divided into roles based on the ratio of damage to survivability: Tank, Fighter, and Slayer. Unlike the original, units are distributed evenly: attacking units are not tied to high speed or initiative, and tanks are not tied to low speed or initiative.
5. Each speed group has high cohesion, meaning all 3 types of each unit generally belong to one speed group (with rare exceptions). This means that units rarely change not only their class (e.g., skeleton archers) but also rarely change their speed.
6. Each faction has its own archetype (character), expressed in which part of the speed groups (squares) their units can be located:
- Dwarves: Power Tank (strength + defense) - bottom left corner - Humans: Standard Tank (defense) - left half - Elves: Active Tank (initiative + defense) - top left corner - Mages: Active Fighter (initiative) - top half - Shadows: Active Slayer (initiative + attack) - top right corner - Demons: Standard Slayer (attack) - right half - Orcs: Power Slayer (strength + attack) - bottom right corner - Undead: Power Fighter (strength) - bottom half
7. Each faction has its own initiative profile, meaning a set of initiatives that their units can have:
Unlike the original, units are grouped around racial initiatives; that is, considering the minimum 5% starting spread of the turn scale, their turns are synchronous with units of the same faction. For example, in a battle between elves and humans, elven units with 11 initiative will move consecutively, as this initiative is characteristic of elves but not humans.
8. As a result of the system, initiative is evenly represented across different classes. For instance, if we take the small ranged class, we see the following picture:
6 init = priests (3 of 3) 7 init = succubi (2 of 3) 8 init = archers (2 of 3) 9 init = witches (1 of 2) 10 init = monks (2 of 3) 11 init = druids (2 of 3) 12 init = mages (2 of 3) 13 init = scouts* (2 of 2) 14 init = hunters (3 of 3)
*Scouts, although they can shoot, are essentially ranged hybrids assigned to the light class (since scouts and assassins will have only 1 shot).
Another example - large flyers:
6 init = necro dragons (2 of 3) 7 init = wyverns (2 of 3) 8 init = griffins (2 of 3) 9 init = thanes (2 of 3) 10 init = angels (2 of 3) 11 init = dark dragons (2 of 3) 12 init = djinns (2 of 3) 13 init = devils (2 of 3) 14 init = forest dragons (2 of 3)
Class reshuffles (compared to the previous version):
- now all vampires have flight - small orcs became heavy and mobile (speed 4), while militia became light and slow (speed 3) - northern dragons became light, and nightmares became heavy cavalry (reason - increasing class diversity for dwarves and tier-7 units in general) - all dark dragons, except red ones, became light (dark dragons now differ fundamentally from forest dragons by speed rather than class) - spearmen now have the heavy class (2 of 3 are also ranged) - most dancers were sped up (from speed 4 to 5), and most cerberi were slowed down (from speed 5 to 4), except for hellhounds - berserkers were sped up (from speed 4 to 5), and skeletons were slowed down (from speed 5 to 4) - nightmares were sped up (from speed 5 to 6), and bears were slowed down (from speed 6 to 5) - one of the ents was sped up (from speed 4 to 5), and one of the northern dragons was slowed down (from speed 5 to 4)
All these reshuffles are motivated by a desire to evenly distribute units into their niches within each speed group. For example, in the light slow group (zombies, imps, previously orcs), there was no one to fill the Active Tank role - this role is not characteristic of any of these races (undead cannot be Active, demons cannot be Tanks, and orcs cannot be Active Tanks), but humans can occupy this role (as well as dwarves or mages - but they have no small light fighters; or elves or shadows - but they have no small slow fighters). Also, among the small light class, only humans can take 12 initiative (since there are no mages or dwarves here).
The 8th speed group has returned (but only for large light flyers), which includes angels, forest dragons, and wyverns.
This colossal Rubik's Cube has finally been solved, although it was a quite difficult task as all the above criteria had to be met simultaneously (maximum diversity, but adherence to archetypes, yet even distribution). Now I am returning to the balance recalculation stage (specific numbers), which was largely completed previously.
Added after 1 hour 5 minutes I consider the developed scheme (which went through many different versions as the mod evolved) to be a fundamental advantage of WGE. One could, of course, pump out hundreds of "different" units based on the principle of "if it's logical, let's add it": - if a unit is defensive, its main function is to soak up damage, meaning neither speed nor initiative is needed (many slow powerful tanks) - if a unit is attacking, its main function is to deal damage, meaning both speed and initiative are needed (many fast active attackers)
However, we have tried all that in many games; therefore, the "exotic" roles are of primary interest, for example:
- fast tanks can block key positions at different parts of the field - high-initiative tanks can quickly remove counterattacks or timely enter defense (and heavy tanks can also maneuver timely to avoid 100% stationary attacks) - slow attackers serve as a deterrent or aggressive defense (if you venture into their zone of influence, you'll get hit hard) - low-initiative attackers create the most severe threats, as each of their rare turns can deal a great deal of damage
In WGE, all possible roles are widely represented.
With the exception of 2 things:
- slow flyers (example - original ghosts), because such a combination is absurd: if a flyer lacks the mobility to attack ranged units from a safe distance (50% shooting), then it's not a flyer, but a parody of one (the flight ability without high speed has little value) - ultra-fast runners (since all high-speed niches are already occupied by flyers; mobility is their bread and butter)
I can't download the mod, it says there is no access to the files.
Once I finish the next version, I will publish it.
Jewily
4 years ago
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Interesting concept; as someone not very familiar with turn-based combat, I really like it!
I think that introducing "exotic" roles, as you put it, is a very interesting step because it greatly expands the tactical possibilities and moves the battle more towards a chess-like experience. Because the more "types of pieces" there are, the more vertices there will be in the graph of all possible events after n, n+1... moves.
I may have missed the discussion at some point, and it might have already been suggested (it's a 104-page thread, after all), but wouldn't expanding the grid help with this development of the battle? Or would the balance then need to be completely recalculated?
In any case, it's great that you've returned to working on this; I thought that in February, the project would end its existence, like many other good projects in other good places.
Interesting scheme, as someone not versed in turn-based combat, I really like it! I think introducing, as you put it, "exotic" roles is a very interesting step: because it greatly expands tactical possibilities and moves the battle closer to chess. Because the more, so to speak, "types of pieces" there are, the more vertices the graph of all possible events over n, n+1... moves will have. I might have missed it in the discussion at some point, and it was suggested (a 104-page topic, after all), but wouldn't expanding the grid help such development of combat? Or would the balance need to be completely recalculated then? In any case, it's really cool that you've returned to work: I thought that since February the project would cease to exist, like many other good things in other good places
I'll add regarding speeds (this topic also concerns the size of the battlefield).
Why are these specific speeds used in the mod (3-5 for small and 4-6 for large, except for flyers)? These speeds were obtained empirically - these values are pleasant to play with. Previously, it seemed that this way the battlefield was effectively expanded (more moves were required to get from one edge to the other). But now another aspect comes to mind.
What does speed provide?
1. In a melee confrontation, speed allows you to strike first (which can be neutralized by the heavy class). But from this perspective, the magnitude of speed is unimportant, as only the greater/lesser relation matters.
2. The confrontation with shooters (who have a direct shot range of 6 cells) is far more interesting:
- A slow melee unit (speed 3) can be easily attacked by any shooter (by moving into direct shot range), as the extreme distance of a direct shot is always safe against such speed
- A mobile melee unit (speed 4) can also be attacked by any shooter (by moving into direct shot range), but not from all positions (it cannot be safely attacked from adjacent vertical lanes, where the shooter shoots at 5 cells, while a run of 4 cells in a straight line + a diagonal strike already reaches the shooter)
- A fast melee unit (speed 5) can no longer be safely attacked by a shooter from direct distance (without protection), but also, as a rule, cannot safely attack the shooter (except for adjacent vertical lanes, which are easy to block)
What happens next, as speed increases? Starting from speed 6, the possibilities of bypassing protection increase sharply (you need to block many cells adjacent to the shooter); as a rule, the unit becomes unblockable, which is exactly why small flyers have this speed (and a melee unit with speed 6+ is almost equal to a flyer in this regard, which is why such creatures are not present here).
Concerning large creatures, due to their size they need to cover more distance while going around obstacles, therefore the +1 speed bonus is fair and does not fundamentally change their relationship with shooters: cavalry with speed 6 is still easily blocked on cells diagonal to the shooter. At the same time, speed 3 for large units is too slow, making them too clumsy on a field with obstacles (not differing much in capabilities from speed 2 for small ones).
So what happens when the battlefield size increases?
The range of a direct shot increases. This means that infantry speeds need to be raised proportionally to maintain the same ratio for reaching direct shot range. For example, on a 14x14 field, the direct shot range is 8 cells; consequently, an analog of a small speed-5 unit would need speed 7 on such a field to not fear shooter approaches. But if we raise speeds from 3-5 to 5-7, then in terms of movement across the field, the difference between slow and fast sharply decreases (from +67% to +40%).
If we lower the minimum speed, to 4-7, this creates an additional, 4th speed tier. And as can be seen in the scheme, such a tier is redundant - currently, small infantry is quite densely covered by 3 tiers (due to the presence of the heavy class). Spreading across 4 tiers would lead to the form on the right (for large creatures), where not all roles are filled within each speed group. This option is also not bad, but within each individual speed group it is still worse, creating less diversity. Moreover, infantry with speeds 4 or 5 have no fundamental difference against shooters with a direct shot radius of 8, since both are equally well shot at from a safe distance by a direct shot.
For these reasons, at this stage I have settled on the standard battlefield size. However, a larger field has an advantage regarding obstacles, allowing for more interesting landscapes by utilizing more obstacles. Therefore, an extended version will also be supported, with a 14x14 field and a +1 bonus to the speeds of all creatures (this will affect unit balance, slightly strengthening shooters and slightly weakening area attacks, but it is unlikely to break it). From the perspective of the relationship between speeds and field size, both options are almost equivalent.
Update:
Why is this relationship important at all? Because it allows shooters to actively maneuver, attacking more vulnerable infantry from direct shot range. Rather than having them stand in the corner, as in the original, because most units are so fast that they can easily punish them. This is especially true for shooters with high initiative (12+), of which there were too few in the original, but many here. The only ones that pose a high threat to shooters are enemy flyers. But even against them, "tank" shooters (with good defense) work well, which, unlike the original, are also widely represented. Here it will be interesting to give 2 examples:
1) Special Tank shooters of the heavy class (javelin throwers and harpooners) - they are not afraid of flyers at all and can freely move into direct distance, as damage from a run (or flight) is halved (and moreover, they have no penalty in melee combat)
2) Active Tank elven shooters (specifically - hunters), marked as tanks in the scheme, but their tankiness will largely be provided by agility: - thanks to high speed, they can receive a huge defensive bonus after running (reducing incoming damage to themselves by more than 2 times, including ranged damage) - and thanks to high initiative (14), the "cost" of their run (spending a turn) is significantly reduced: while a powerful shooter with initiative 7 fires once with a 50% shot, the elven hunters will have time to run once, receiving a defensive bonus, and attack once from direct shot; I find this combination particularly interesting
Added after 19 hours 9 minutes Shooters vs Infantry
Visual illustrations regarding speeds and direct shot above. S - shooter, P - infantry, green cells - direct shot radius. Numbers - required speed for infantry to reach this cell. The first column shows situations where the shooter needs to get to direct shot distance to attack infantry. The second column shows situations where infantry needs to get to a safe distance to attack shooters.
In the first column, it is clear that speed 3 poses no threat to the shooter from any position. Speed 4 is dangerous only in one of the situations (adjacent line). Speed 5 poses a threat from all positions.
In the second column, it is clear that speeds 3 or 4 are always insufficient to attack a shooter from a safe distance. And speed 5 can do this in principle, but only from one position (which can be easily blocked).
Thus, shooters: - are always dangerous against speed 3 (slow infantry) - are almost always dangerous against speed 4 (mobile infantry) - are mutually dangerous against speed 5 (fast infantry) - are afraid of high speeds, starting from 6 (flyers)
Added after 21 hours 7 minutes During development, I will publish some updates.
I will provide the creature strength (cost in gold).
There are some changes relative to the previous version (for example - strengthening archers, swordsmen, monks), but for convenience I will still indicate changes relative to the original.
Please note that a level 1 hero requires a whole 5 attacks to kill 1 goblin! A level 20 hero requires the same number of attacks to kill 1 dragon. This is normal, considering that the scale of troops here is 5 times lower than in the original. This scale was chosen to enhance the role-playing component, the atmosphere (realism). The power (hero) should be grounded "closer to the people", not wiping out creatures in droves. In the current model, a hero's attack is comparable to free 1st circle chaos spells, with zero skill and low sorcery. This is the minimum baseline, which is strengthened with leveling up (for chaos - sorcery) and upgrading relevant abilities (for chaos - the school of magic).
1st tier (per attack the hero kills 20% of the creature per level)
Compared to the original, orcs have been lowered to the 2nd tier, and shamanesses have been lowered to their place. Bears have been raised to the 4th tier, and bone crushers have been lowered to their place. Cerberi have been raised to the 4th tier, and succubi have been lowered to their place.
4th tier (per attack the hero kills 4% of the creature per level)
Compared to the original, shamanesses have been lowered to the 3rd tier, and centaurs have been raised to their place. Succubi have been lowered to the 3rd tier, and cerberi have been raised to their place. Bone crushers have been lowered to the 3rd tier, and bears have been raised to their place. Griffins have been raised to the 6th tier, and monks have been lowered to their place.
5th tier (per attack the hero kills 3% of the creature per level)
Compared to the original, monks have been lowered to the 4th tier, and knights have been lowered to their place. Hydras have been raised to the 6th tier, and witches have been lowered to their place.
6th, 7th tier - all large
6th tier (per attack the hero kills 2% of the creature per level)
1500 Reaper (light), Griffin (heavy/light flyer) 2000 Rakshasa (light), Balrog (heavy, caster), Wyvern (light super flyer), Tank (heavy flyer) 3000 Ent (light), Hydra (heavy)
Compared to the original, knights have been lowered to the 5th tier, and griffins have been raised to their place. Witches have been lowered to the 5th tier, and hydras have been raised to their place.
7th tier (per attack the hero kills 1% of the creature per level)
Compared to the original, angels have been weakened and increased in growth (1 to 1 is not a match for titans, dragons, and devils).
Nargott
4 years ago
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The upcoming update will affect Humans.
Key changes:
1. All Militia will become slow light infantry (losing the heavy class) with significantly higher damage, unlike the heavy infantry Swordsmen. Fanatics will lose Frenzy.
2. Archers will replace Charge with a General 100% armor-piercing shot (like other tiers), while Crossbowmen and Musketeers will swap abilities (Crossbowmen will get shooting without penalty, and Musketeers will gain a more powerful ability - 50% armor penetration). The Charge ability will be transferred to Dwarven Harpooners, for whom it is far more interesting. The logic for tiers will be as follows: - Archers, with increased initiative, are motivated to rush into close combat to efficiently consume their ammunition (which would otherwise run out sooner); therefore, they will make better use of the armor-piercing shot - Crossbowmen - well-armored straight-shooting archers with an additional dangerous zone for armor-piercing fire if an enemy gets too close - Musketeers - a dangerous threat to high-defense units, whose armor they pierce at any range; the armor-piercing shot zone is also dangerous, but less critical than for other tiers An under-review rename is also swapping Crossbowmen to Musketeers, and Musketeers to Crossbowmen (I believe that was the case in the English version).
3. All Swordsmen will become individually stronger and more proactive (at the cost of reduced numbers), with basic Swordsmen gaining Frenzy (an interesting combination with numerous defensive abilities - against arrows, charge attacks, and counterattacks).
4. All Monks will become individually stronger (at the cost of reduced numbers). Adepts and Inquisitors will swap abilities (Inquisitors will get shooting without penalty, while Adepts will reclaim their native ability, Cleansing). The logic for tiers will be as follows: - Monks refresh their prayer every second or third turn, attack light units in melee when possible, and shooting is only beneficial at close range - Adepts throw Blindness or use Cleansing on their first turn, then attack light units in melee when possible; shooting is only beneficial at close range if there are no targets for Cleansing - Inquisitors attack light units in melee when possible or cast the paid Gouge multiple times; shooting is lower priority, but available at any range without penalty, just like the free Blessing
Now Militia, Archers, Swordsmen, Monks, and Knight have strength and cost values of 100, 250, 500, 750, and 1000 gold, respectively. This means that training is equally valuable from Archers up to Knight (+250 for any tier upgrade). Training from Militia to Archers remains less profitable (+100), but requires only 1 Building - for Archers (Militia are available from the start).
5. Knight replaces Charge with Battle Fervor (old name: Taste of Blood, +10 to attack for 1 turn when taking damage), meaning "warmed up" Knight will deal maximum damage to a single target in a charge (Champions deal less damage, but do not require a warm-up and can hit 2 targets). Archers will gain an additional option: using lobbing shots to "activate" Knight.
6. Royal Gryphons will become Imperial (as in the English version) and take Fierce Resistance from White Gryphons. White Gryphons will take Dive (100% damage) from Blood Gryphons, which will become infinite (similar to Strike from Heaven). Meanwhile, Blood Gryphons will replace Dive and Taste of Blood with a new ability: Cavalry Bonus (for a flier, this is a fixed +50% damage if the attack was performed on the move - not from a standstill). The logic for tiers will be as follows: - Imperial Gryphons are effective against Archers and Mages, thanks to Strike from Heaven - White Gryphons are effective against heavy units, thanks to infinite Dive (which, unlike Strike from Heaven, ignores the heavy class) - Blood Gryphons are effective against light units, thanks to Cavalry Bonus (against heavy units, flight is less profitable due to the 50% penalty)
7. All Angels will gain top-tier speed 8 (characteristic of high-tier flyers).
Nargott
4 years ago
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Today I will publish an update regarding the humans.
Compared to the previous post, there will be a change regarding the griffins. As it turns out, the cavalry bonus does not work correctly with flying units (it predicts one value but deals another amount of damage). Therefore, the distribution of distinctive abilities among the griffins will be different:
- Imperial Griffin: strike from the skies - White Griffin: heavy class, frenzied retaliation - Blood Griffin: heavy class, dive
All unit lines are "tailored" to their respective hero class.
Paladins have access to defense, but not to attack (rare skill); accordingly, the entire white unit line is tailored for defense (the most defensive upgrades). This class plays against fighters by prolonging the battle and winning via hero buffs.
Templars have access to attack, but not to defense; accordingly, the entire red unit line is tailored for attack (the most offensive upgrades). This class plays against mages, killing them as quickly as possible.
Knight have access to both attack and defense; accordingly, the entire blue unit line has a balanced ratio of attack and defense. This class plays against fighters by having a protected army on one hand, and dealing good damage immediately on the other.
<time id="message-timestamp-931713027957461042" datetime="2022-01-15T00:54:56.256Z" aria-label="15 января 2022 г., 10:54">
H5 WGE exe - the executable, place in the bin folder, and launch the game through it (it hasn't changed for half a year)
Unit Table (humans)
Added after 14 hours 22 minutes The next update is planned within a week and will affect demons (we will proceed in the order of duel presets).
Among the fundamental changes, the casts of the Hellspawn will be significantly buffed: the general Curse and Scatter will be applied for 2 rounds instead of 1. Given that these are free level 1 spells, Hellspawn with initiative 7 will get the option to keep the entire enemy army under a permanent Curse, or under permanent Scatter, or under both 70% of the time (though both debuffs simultaneously will only start working from the 3rd round of battle — i.e., from the second turn of the Hellspawn, or 1 round earlier if the Hellspawn are accelerated by the Devils' inspiration). Each individual debuff is weaker than the Monks' prayer, but both together are stronger, although they consume all the Hellspawn's actions to maintain them (whereas Monks still have free time to fight). This will especially increase the effectiveness of Hellspawn under AI control, which almost never fights with them anyway, almost always preferring to refresh debuffs — now this will be their primary mode of use and in terms of efficiency.
Nargott
4 years ago
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Updated the mod (using the same link above), adjusted the parameters (all angels and all recruits), and added brief descriptions of the abilities in the table below.
[spoiler=Unit Table: Humans]
[/spoiler]
Nargott
4 years ago
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Minor update: reduced the "Battle Zeal" ability from +10 to +8 attack. Previously, I thought the ability worked about 50% of the time, but it turns out the ratio is closer to 2:1 (it works much more often than it doesn't).
Of the new, well-balanced armies (currently, these are the 3 tiers of Humans), the Knight-Paladin pair raises the most questions.
The problems with this pair for the Paladin are as follows:
1) The Knight has a +4 attack advantage in physical attack, and the monks' prayer further widens the gap to +8 stats and +2 morale. This is a lot.
The Knight's base attack is 7 + 2 attack from prayer = 9 base defense for the Paladin. On the other hand, the Paladin's base attack = 3 against 9 + 2 from prayer = 11 defense for the Knight = a difference of -8.
This means that the Paladin's troops deal only 60% damage against the Knight's troops under prayer, and they also have +2 morale from it.
It is clear that with such an overwhelming advantage, playing a straight-up exchange is equivalent to defeat - the Paladin simply cannot deal decent damage.
2) In addition, all of the Paladin's upgrades (without exception) are defensive, which means that the damage they deal is even lower (as is the case with the Knight's troops due to the Paladin's troops' good defense).
Thus, it turns out that the Paladin's troops against the Knight not only cannot engage in a global exchange but also cannot deal enough damage even in those local exchanges where they have a numerical superiority.
This creates a false impression that the Paladin's army is weak and cannot do anything.
In reality, this means that the classic style of combat is not suitable for the Paladin; for effective play, the Paladin must use a clearly defensive style and defeat the Knight with magic.
The defensive style implies:
1) The main priority is not dealing damage, but reducing the damage received. The key units here are:
- Paladins: the healing ability allows canceling a significant amount of damage received (against Cherubs, Griffins, and Latticemen) without receiving any unnecessary counterattacks and without exposing themselves (unlike cavalry attacks).
- Cherubs: the regeneration ability effectively makes the unit very damaging, but with a negative sign: using expectations, Cherubs can restore 60 HP out of 140 per round, which is more than 40% of the stack. In the right hands, Cherubs are virtually immortal.
- Latticemen: modest damage with even infinite retaliation is not as important as the shelter aura (50% protection from ranged attacks) and especially - interception (100% retaliation). The Latticeman does not deal much damage, but his task is to sharply reduce the damage of enemy troops. Given the high survivability and heavy class, the incoming damage when using interception is halved, and if you also use defense and/or stone skin, the damage drops to 3-4 times. The most important task of the Latticemen is to occupy a key position and go into defense, thereby canceling out a huge part of the potential damage nearby.
- Inquisitors: the role of buffs is huge. The Inquisitor can cast stone skin 3 times for +8, which effectively reduces the damage received to 60%. It is these buffs that bring the Knight's damage down to the Paladin's low values, which allows the Paladin to engage in exchanges (but only under buffs).
2) The only conditionally damaging unit of the Paladin is the Archers, who, thanks to the armor-piercing shot, can one-shot stacks (often, it is enough to successfully cast teleport once). Because of this, there may be a false impression that this is a key unit. But in fact, the Paladin can grind the Knight even without Archers, simply by not allowing the enemy troops to deal damage (using healing, regeneration, stone skin, the defense of the Latticemen, and resurrection).
3) An important point is that the Paladin can not only but also must outperform the Knight in magic.
In fact, almost all of the Knight's magic is useless against the Paladin: berserk does not deal any damage, any debuffs except for weak rays are removed for free by the Paladins (due to low magic), and when the Knight runs out of mana, the Inquisitors also do it (they counter Curses with Blessings). The only strong cast is vampirism, but given the low damage to the Paladin's troops, the unit under vampirism will also be slowly resurrected, and vampirism has a huge downside - the prayer cannot be cast on a unit under such a buff, which means a loss of 2 attack, 2 defense, and 3 morale (1 base + 2 from prayer).
The Knight's light magic is also quite weak: both useful spells - Haste and Stone Skin - give a weak bonus due to the Knight's low magic, and the short duration (only 3 rounds) further works against the Knight due to the low damage. At the same time, the Paladin's casts are more powerful and last longer, and in addition, in a long game, the Paladin simply has more mana.
In addition to the standard stone skin, the Paladin can also effectively use weakness or slow in the endgame. The Knight can basically not cancel weakness, except for expensive antimagic (which is 10 times more expensive). And slow is dangerous in the endgame if the Knight does not have enough mana for haste.
Although Darkness is not the Paladin's profile, however, both debuffs depend weakly on the skill and work for a достаточно long time (4 rounds), just like stone skin, and effectively multiply the remaining Knight troops by 0.
In addition, the Paladin has powerful Resurrections, allowing him to raise about 70% of the unit at a time. It should be remembered that in the endgame, the same Cherubs are virtually invulnerable due to regeneration (and the resurrection raises 100% of the unit).
Finally, the classic teleport + Archers combination allows one-shotting Knight units almost for free if the Knight is careless and does not protect against such a threat. At the same time, the Archers are very durable ranged units and can easily withstand a couple of hits "as punishment".
4) In the long run, the Knight can do almost nothing to the Paladin, as the damage under the aura of the Latticemen is very low, the number of ranged attacks is limited, and the Paladin's healing is infinite.
In short, the Knight has a huge advantage in physical attack, but the Paladin has many ways to nullify all of his damage (in fact, there are answers to all the Knight's threats, and the opposite is not true - the Knight must be wary of both the teleport of the Archers and the immortal Cherubs in the endgame).
P.S. The Paladin is the most durable class of all (only the Dwarves can argue with him, but they do not have such healing). This means that against the AI, the Paladin is an exceptional class that can win almost without losses (in one of the record battles, only 1 archer was lost, or about 0.6% of the army!). It is clear that against smart opponents, the picture will be different, but the question was how to defeat a "weak" Paladin with a powerful Knight controlled by the AI. Having mastered the Paladin's defensive tricks against the AI, you can understand how this class works in ideal conditions and how you can outplay live players. In this pair, the Paladin should be wary of the Knight's overwhelming power in direct exchanges, and the Knight should be wary of the Paladin's impenetrable defense and the nullification of a large part of the damage already dealt through strong abilities and spells.
I think I'll try a new general mechanic for all types of Balrogs: namely, a mass attack, across the entire battlefield (i.e., on all enemies, if they can reach at least one target). The base damage will be reduced by 4 times.
Question: will their unique abilities (deadly strike, cleaving blade, and killing blow) work correctly? They should only work on the first target of the attack. In this case, we can try such a mechanic.
Nargott
4 years ago
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Another update on the Humans.
I've tweaked the stats, reduced the regeneration of Cherubs from 30 to 20, and also reduced their resurrection level from base to zero (from 105 to 70). With the old regeneration, the Cherub was virtually immortal and didn't even need to be paired with Paladins for healing. Even with the reduced regeneration, it's enough to win a duel against Angels, despite the +4 attack bonus the hero has. When using the "wait" command, a squad of Cherubs recovers 20 HP twice per round, i.e., 40 HP out of 140 - that's almost 30% of the squad, without taking any damage in return. This is still a powerful ability, not as powerful against melee units as the 100% vampirism of Seraphs, but it's more versatile - the Cherub can absorb damage at any range, both ranged and magical. While a Seraph, under heavy fire or chaos, is forced to engage the rest of its squad in a trade to somehow recover, and with a high chance of dying there as well.
Human units
As for the Demons, the process is still underway.
There's a problem with the Balrogs: their overall attack doesn't work correctly in conjunction with their abilities (e.g., with Deadly Strike), so this idea is being scrapped. Perhaps there will be something else in common, for example, an Intercept aura (100% taunt).
There are also difficulties with the common ability of the dogs - Frenzy, as it extremely increases the damage by 2-3 times, and requires special care with the parameters. With Frenzy, it is obviously also necessary to add mental immunity or immunity to mind control (unruly dogs) to protect against the broken combination of a single mind control spell - "one-shotting" several squads at once (the dogs' target and the dogs themselves with 0 defense).
The Demons (Tier 2) will be changed; they will all receive the common ability "Jump" (with a minimum and maximum radius = speed), while the upgrades will differ in other abilities: - base = activated explosion - upgrade = fiery skin - alt = explosion upon death Thus, all Demons will have something like a "radius of armor-piercing fire," with the difference that the armor-piercer hits inside the circle, and the jump is dangerous precisely along the outer arc (circumference). Jump will deal 200% damage and receive 200% damage in return (if there are any survivors).
Nevertheless, I expect the Demons to be ready by the end of this week.
[/spoiler]
