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Posts from 2000+ movepoints heroes after their death or deleting

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In reply to Juristis
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4 years ago
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I agree. Many aspects of the game are already frustrating, and when you see how they buy back a support hero you just killed (literally through another hero), all patience just evaporates. smile46
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4 years ago
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I agree. The coach has been saying this for years, and who knows, maybe he'll get into the game after the fix and dominate the online lobby!
In reply to =Stinger=
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4 years ago
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Many good points have already been made. Finally, after 30 years, they have seriously started discussing fixing the Heroes from the 2000s. (Although a similar feature was already implemented in one version that we cannot name). If the issue of fixing the Heroes from the 2000s has already been resolved, the question is HOW the fix should look. First of all, regardless of everything, the bug where the same hero keeps appearing in the tavern needs to be fixed; otherwise, the game will be reduced to repeatedly digging up and buying the same hero. Secondly, implement a correct calculation of movement points when buying back a dismissed hero (based on the monster that will be present when the hero arrives at the tavern). The main question is whether it is necessary to prohibit the purchase of heroes who were dismissed earlier? In my opinion, this is unnecessary because the theoretical impossibility of resurrecting killed support heroes will significantly prolong the game on large maps. Also, there should be a reset of bonuses from the stable, etc., for resurrected heroes. Another question is how this should work in single-player mode?
In reply to Dirty_Player
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4 years ago
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Do whatever you want in the hotseat mode, but don't touch the real Heroes of Might and Magic III.
In reply to sir Davos Seaworth
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4 years ago
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Sir Davos Seaworth
Do whatever you want in the hotfix, but don't touch the real third-party heroes.
😂😂😂 Some things never change in this life!

What are the "real" ones? The ones from Ubisoft on Steam?) Don't worry, no one will touch them! 👌
In reply to Dirty_Player
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4 years ago
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Dirty_Player
😂😂😂 Some things never change in this life!

What are the real ones? The ones from Ubisoft on Steam?) Don't worry, no one will touch those! 👌

The real ones are "Heroes 3: Complete Edition" + HD mod. Basically, the ones that have become known as "SoD".
4 years ago
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Since many support the fix, I will write in more detail exactly which changes I believe are possible to implement. What is listed below is the maximum program. It is possible that not all of this should be introduced.

1. Upon entering the tavern, the hero's movement points are set according to the army they arrived with. This means there will be no heroes with 2000 moves and, conversely, no heroes with fewer moves due to "phantom" 3 stacks (for example, when a hero arrives with 1 centaur, but the number of moves is as if they have dwarves).

2. Overwriting a hero in the tavern is handled as death (mana and movement points are restored).

3. Upon the death of a hero, their temporary modifiers are removed: visits to stables, fountains of youth, etc. The number of Dimension Door uses this turn is also reset.

4. Expansion of the mechanism that prevents "digging up" heroes. Currently, heroes who died simultaneously in battle are excluded from the pool. This could be expanded to any hero deaths. To ensure the pool does not run dry, the following mechanic applies:

— Each hero capable of arriving at the tavern is assigned a rank based on their experience, artifacts, spells, etc. The minimum rank is assigned to zero-level heroes and weakly developed heroes (conditionally up to level 5 in the absence of artifacts). The next rank is for heroes up to level 10, and so on.

— When selecting heroes for the tavern, a hero of the minimum rank is always chosen. If such heroes have run out, a hero of the second rank is taken, and so on. Because of this, the hero pool cannot be exhausted. At the same time, dead mains or heroes with powerful artifacts receive a high rank, making their arrival at the tavern practically impossible.

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In single player, all of this should work exactly the same way. The anti-digging mechanism might potentially harm games in the style of offline Tournaments, where inviting a hero to the tavern is used. But it's hard for me to judge how much of a problem that is, and the format isn't very popular in HotA anyway. On the other hand, for casual play against the computer, anti-digging is only a plus — powerful AI heroes will not be dug up.

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I will also say right away that I do not consider it possible to introduce resetting hero experience upon death, primarily for atmospheric reasons. The problem needs to be solved with other mechanics.
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4 years ago
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Hopefully, they will also fix the exploit involving splitting and digging up heroes, as this wasn't mentioned in Sava's post.
In reply to Sav
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4 years ago
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Sav

— When selecting heroes in the tavern, a hero of the lowest rank is always chosen. If there are no more heroes of that rank, then a hero of the second rank is chosen, and so on. This ensures that the pool of heroes never runs out. At the same time, main heroes or heroes with powerful artifacts receive a high rank, and their appearance in the tavern becomes virtually impossible.
Excellent solution, which makes resetting progress less necessary.
4 years ago

I think Xocenk idea is very good, 2k hero is bug, it's just very popular so no one cares before, but after new "mechanic" it's gonna be tragic for gameplay on many templates. Stables + arts bonus should exist, full mana is fine in next turn. I think it's huge change and players need some time to adapt (hopefully there will be a chance to play old patch at least in World Cup final)

After Sav post not sure but if it's possible dead/deleted hero goes at the end of queue and they can't come back untill full pool is used, that would be interesting

In reply to Sav
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4 years ago
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Sav
Since many support the fix, I will write in more detail exactly what changes I believe are possible to make. What is listed below is the maximum program. It's possible that not all of this should be implemented.

4. Expansion of the mechanism preventing heroes from being dug up. Currently, heroes who died simultaneously in battle are excluded from the pool. This could be expanded to any hero deaths. To ensure the pool does not run dry, the following mechanic applies:

— Each hero capable of arriving at the tavern is assigned a rank based on their upgrades, artifacts, spells, etc. The minimum rank is assigned to zero-level heroes and weakly upgraded heroes (conditionally up to level 5 without artifacts). The next rank is for heroes up to level 10, and so on.

— When selecting heroes for the tavern, a hero of the minimum rank is always chosen. If such heroes run out, a second-rank hero is taken, and so on. Because of this, the hero pool cannot be exhausted. Meanwhile, dead mains or heroes with powerful artifacts receive a high rank, making their arrival at the tavern practically impossible.
It is very important to consider the nuance here so that when playing on large maps, a situation does not arise where opponents kill each other's strong supports and cannot dig them up, which would allow games to be dragged out almost indefinitely.

Sav
In single-player, all of this should work exactly the same. The anti-digging mechanism might potentially harm games in the style of offline Tournaments, where inviting a hero to the tavern is used. But it's hard for me to judge how much of a problem that is, and the format isn't very popular in HotA anyway. On the other hand, for casual play against the computer, anti-digging is only a plus — powerful AI heroes won't be dug up..
It's very difficult to say what the correct way should be here. Indeed, tournaments aren't being held now; the offline community mostly plays SoD. The main thing is that the "invite hero" option works exactly the same, so there are no restrictions on which heroes can be invited, otherwise it will turn out completely depressing.
In reply to Dirty_Player
4 years ago
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Dirty_Player
It is very important to consider the nuance here, so that when playing on large maps, there is no situation where opponents kill each other's strong support heroes and cannot resurrect them, which would allow them to prolong the games almost indefinitely.
There is nothing good about situations where you kill an opponent's support hero and immediately resurrect it yourself. Or vice versa, the opponent resurrects it back on their turn. This situation is the most annoying.
If one player dominates and kills the strong heroes of another, then without resurrection, they will quickly defeat everyone and win.

Resurrection of heroes should be excluded. If points 3-4 are not introduced, they will still be cycling through the tavern.
I believe that all four points should be implemented.
In reply to Xocenk
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4 years ago
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Xocenk
There's nothing good about situations where you kill an opponent's support hero and then immediately resurrect him yourself. Or vice versa, the opponent resurrects him back on their turn. This situation is particularly frustrating.
If one player is dominating and killing the other player's strong heroes, then without resurrection, they will quickly defeat everyone and win.

Resurrection of heroes should be removed. If points 3-4 are not implemented, they will still be cycling through the tavern.
I believe that all four points should be implemented.
More opinions are needed on this issue. Indeed, what you wrote is also a problem. I don't know what the right solution is, but I think we need to approach this issue very carefully.
In reply to Juristis
4 years ago
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Juristis
I hope they also fix the abuse of splitting and digging up heroes, because this wasn't mentioned in Sava's post.
I've already written a fix for this and provided it to baratorch. So, I think it will be fixed soon.

Dirty_Player
It's very difficult to say how it should be done correctly. Indeed, Tournaments are not being held now, and the offline community mainly plays in SOD. The main thing is that the option to invite a hero should work exactly the same way, so that there are no restrictions on the heroes that can be invited, otherwise it will be very depressing.
On the other hand, in offline tournaments, it is still forbidden to dig up killed heroes in the same turn, and splitting is not canceled. But, indeed, as a compromise, it can be made so that the invitation to the tavern works differently than the usual arrival (although this is a bit awkward, but simple to implement), or make an option in the map editor.
In reply to Sav
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4 years ago
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Sav
Since many support the fix, I will write in more detail exactly which changes I believe are possible to implement. What is listed below is the maximum program. It is possible that not all of this should be introduced.

1. Upon entering the tavern, the hero's movement points are set according to the army they arrived with. This means there will be no heroes with 2000 moves and, conversely, no heroes with a lower number of moves due to "phantom" 3 stacks (for example, when a hero arrives with 1 centaur, but the number of moves is as if they have dwarves).

2. Overwriting a hero in the tavern is treated as death (mana and movement points are restored).

3. Upon a hero's death, their temporary modifiers are removed: visits to stables, fountains of youth, etc. The number of Dimension Door uses this turn is also reset.

4. Expansion of the mechanism preventing the "digging up" of heroes. Currently, heroes who died simultaneously in battle are excluded from the pool. This could be expanded to any hero deaths. To ensure the pool does not run dry, the following mechanic applies:

— Each hero capable of entering the tavern is assigned a rank based on their experience, artifacts, spells, etc. The minimum rank is assigned to zero-level heroes and weakly developed heroes (conditionally up to level 5 without artifacts). The next rank is for heroes up to level 10, and so on.

— When selecting heroes for the tavern, a hero of the minimum rank is always chosen. If such heroes have run out, a hero of the second rank is taken, and so on. Because of this, the hero pool cannot be exhausted. Meanwhile, dead main heroes or heroes with powerful artifacts receive a high rank, making their arrival in the tavern practically impossible.

---

In single player, all of this should work exactly the same way. The anti-digging mechanism might possibly harm games in the style of offline Tournaments, where inviting a hero to the tavern is used. But it's hard for me to judge how much of a problem that is, and the format isn't very popular in HotA anyway. On the other hand, for casual play against the computer, anti-digging is only a plus — powerful AI heroes will not be dug up.

---

I will also say right away that I do not consider it possible to introduce resetting hero experience upon death, primarily for atmospheric reasons. The problem needs to be solved with other mechanics.
I support all points

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