Posts from Mafia 107. Fever and Overdose

Well, yes, Master. That's the reason why I didn't believe you much on the second day, and initially doubted you on the third. Besides all sorts of rather shady proposals like "let's have you isolated," the main thing was that Gumer had already revealed himself in my eyes as a Knight. I interpreted the phrase about saving someone exactly that way. And it was absolutely unclear to me who you might be revealing as, possibly with an aggressive role...
Not to mention that I considered Crabbi not as a test, but as a pure... tabletop game. Because at the beginning of the second day, he says (the quote is not exact):
"I don't like Cop, Master, and Morning. Maybe I just don't like the letter M..."
What was that?! I've never seen a town member _directly_ reveal themselves to other town members! After that, the entire end of the second day, when Crabbi tries to hint at Master's aggressiveness, and Master tries to hint that he is aggressive, but one of us, looks like an absolute bad trip. Because it would never occur to anyone that tabletop players know anything about a player's Mafia role or roles (we, who are potentially swapped, can say something about ourselves. For example, because I wasn't redirected from Locken, I decided that if my Night Defense doesn't double, then either Master visited Locken, or one of them is a bad guy; the beginning of the third day was based on this assumption).
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Thank you all for the game! To the town, the Mafia, and the Moderator, and of course, to Tox.
You are all lovely, the game was intense at times, and always extremely interesting. I even had trouble sleeping a couple of nights. Town, congratulations on the victory, and to the rest – well played!

So, I still have two questions:

Morning, did you shoot at me randomly, or was there some reason?

Why did you use your ultimate ability on Mama-Fragment in Nebka?

There was a reason, but not a definitive one. At that moment, I needed to check the statuses of the daytime players and Lynx, and at the same time, I decided that it was time to commit a murder, but I couldn't do it on Lynx or Master, whom I had mentioned in my previous posts during the day – I didn't want to raise unnecessary suspicions. Yashur was also a candidate, but I thought that someone might visit him this time, and he wasn't active enough to try to target him specifically. I considered you a harmless player, but not entirely, and in the end, I wanted to test both you and Lynx – to remove any defenses you might have, and for the reasons mentioned above, she got the "strip" effect, and you got the murder. I also thought that if you were indeed a town member, that wouldn't be bad either. But honestly, I didn't really want to kill you; I enjoyed reading your posts during the day, and I like your avatar. Although, when I realized you were a board game enthusiast, I thought that maybe it was for the best, as it might be too difficult to calculate your nighttime actions. Although, in the end, it turned out not to matter.

During the game, I understood that Fragment was revealed because he didn't use his ultimate ability and didn't want to reveal himself on the second night. He made the right decision, and after the second newspaper, I became 100% sure that he was the "mother" (the Mafia leader), considering his 3D status.

I actually thought Crabbi was a Townie for some time. I thought he redirected me on the second night, didn't see the result in the newspaper, but at the same time, I saw that the Knight was protecting a different target, so I was so sure that I couldn't be a Townie.

It's funny, but I never thought about this possibility until you mentioned it now. Because I'm absolutely sure that a Mafia member won't reveal themselves as such during the day, almost under any circumstances. And Crabbi didn't have that, no one really suspected him.

That's understandable. The question is, why did he act that way...

Yeah, I was just in a mood where I wanted some entertainment.

Yes, of course, it's better to have at least some chance of healing through random events than to just leave it to chance, but... I decided as I decided.

And the first night wasn't particularly bloody.

And Lynx, I was genuinely annoyed with you that day because you exposed me with evidence, but only because the situation was difficult: your entire team was intact, there was still an unidentified killer, the town was in disarray, and I was exposed. Knowing your aggressive playstyle, I was almost 100% sure you were Mafia – unless you were a Town role, which seemed very unlikely – and I had reason to suspect you were a hypocrite. That's why I had to vote. The options for execution were you, Master, and Sky, but I couldn't be as sure about them as I was about you being at least somewhat Mafia, and I needed to eliminate a Mafia member urgently. Although, in the end, I left the decision to Fragment; if he had chosen the other two, I would have hanged them.

But overall, yes, I reviewed the days later and only realized how much information was revealed in that game. It leaves a somewhat unpleasant feeling, although I personally think the Mafia were overtuned with a huge number of defenses, an unidentified killer, and two ultimates. On the other hand, I still enjoyed it; the setting was good, and the players were pleasant. Thank you all for the game.

And I had reason to suspect you were a hypocrite.

That's the most interesting part, will you tell us about it?
Because assigning roles among the mafia members in this game was actually more difficult than finding them. I personally only had some thoughts from the first day as the Master regarding immunities, but that's not very reliable (and I'm a little surprised that it actually turned out that way).

And in general, yes, I rewatched the days later and only realized during a reread how much giveaway information there was in this game. It leaves a not very pleasant aftertaste, although I personally think the mafia was overbuffed with a huge number of defenses, a faceless kill, and two ultimates. But on the other hand, I still enjoyed it; the setting was good, and the players were pleasant. Thank you all for the game.

Yeah, I personally think that a player who is revealed without any real evidence should lose all their NDs and special abilities (the Master suggested something slightly different, but I see the essence of the idea as being roughly the same).
But I tried to stay within the rules myself.

I'll just say that it didn't turn into a team game. The Mafia's gameplay was sluggish, without much desire to win, and I understand that. I even understand why, as this has been discussed many times.
After my unfortunate decision to eliminate Menta (I thought he was a medic) due to confusion in the displayed actions, everything went downhill. Although this night didn't seem tragic or decisive to me, the team's desire to win simply vanished completely. All subsequent actions were based on the idea that: "Oh well, it's already a lost cause," "Whoever messed up is the one trying to fix it." I almost didn't lose my desire to win throughout the game, so I don't understand and don't approve of this kind of apathy. I wanted to use my special ability as a Hypocrite before the day I was eliminated. But again, I wasn't allowed to do that. It turned out to be something vague. My hands were almost tied, and I only had the opportunity to write in the forum during the day.

Signing up and almost not participating in the general discussion is boring for me. I showed some activity, which ultimately backfired. The revealed clue was basically ignored. Initially, I didn't plan to elaborate on it in the forum. But after reading the Mafia chat, I realized that one of my teammates simply didn't believe in the correctness of the deduction, and the others didn't really care. What else could I do? Apparently, I should have just stayed silent. With the elimination of Morning, we practically had no chance of winning. But at that point, winning wasn't the main goal. Although, thanks to Morning, I was sent to Amsterdam, I didn't want to kill him. The victory of the Maniac doesn't scare me at all. It was funny to watch the madness that was happening in the forum, lol. The GM gave Menta a "third eye," and then he started having insightful thoughts. So, from that point on, the reasoning became more logical.
Some of the townspeople decided to clearly reveal their roles. As a result, it became clear that Gumer was the medic, MasterR was the knight, and so on.
Pretending and lying isn't my thing; it's difficult for me. Initially, I wanted to play for fun and relax.

In any case, thank you all for the game. I'm sorry that Nefelu was eliminated so early. I hadn't played with her before, and I wanted to read her thoughts and everything. Also, thank her for "eliminating" me in a poetic way. I also didn't want to eliminate Vishmaster. I hope he's not mad at me. Krabbi acted very decently.

Thank you to Toksu for hosting the game. I think he will take all the advice/criticism into consideration in the future if he decides to host another Mafia game. But there were too many inactive players.

This is the most interesting part, will you tell me about it?

Based on psychology, I was sure she was Mafia. Based on her behavior, she was aggressive. Of the aggressive roles, only Knight and Fragment remained. On the third night, there was no visible Mafia kill for the second night. Nebula was blocked, which means he was either the Godfather (then the Master was the Demon) or a Demon. Later, I was told that Nebula was definitely not the Godfather. Why isn't Lynx the Godfather? Because there was no Godfather kill on the second night, and she wasn't blocked. This leaves the Liar, or the Godfather's turn was spent on Nebula, but that would be an unhelpful coincidence that can be ignored, like, for example, trying to account for untraceable and completely random night actions in tabletop games when interpreting the newspaper, or like connecting the absence of kills on any night with being in natural protection.

an unsuccessful decision to let Menta lose

The thing is... it's not enough to just "want to do something this way or that way"; you also need to consider how successful it will be and what it will give us in the future. Using an ultimate ability on a player who will be blocked 90% of the time is a failure (and the saddest thing is that this failure was chosen deliberately), and killing a player who is being healed with a 90% probability is also a failure. You can attack Yashura whenever you want...

"oh, well, it's a loss anyway"

No, it's just that after playing as a total Adeptus, you can only play as a counter-Adeptus during the day, which is unacceptable to me. What are the rules for then?

at the suggestion of Morni, I went to Amsterdam

Emm... Is this how we call executions now?

Well, it's my turn to speak up.

First of all, thank you all for participating; I'm very happy with the fact that we managed to play a full game. This is a big step, and I believe this won't be the last game in the near future. You did a great job; I applaud you and sincerely thank you.

Secondly, let's talk about the difficulty and balance. Before writing this setting, I reread many previous games in my free time. And right before writing this, the last games I read were among the most recent ones. I don't think I need to say how large and complex some of the settings were. Therefore, this setting, as it seemed to me at the time of its release, was actually simpler compared to the previous ones.

But I underestimated the fact that, after a 3-year break, it would still be too difficult for the players, and even for the GM. This is the pitfall I'd like to address when we discuss the main topic: "Why wasn't there a modkill?"

You see, I made a big mistake on the second night. First, I forgot about the hypocrite's immunity to swapping and wrote a block for the Master if the Knight didn't have ND (Night Defense), then I forgot about Vlad's immunity to the hypocrite, and I had to add his ND after the Mental's block. The problem was that I knew all along that the mafia members were online. Therefore, I assumed that my mistakes could inadvertently reveal two town roles to them. So, when Humer came and started his performance, I didn't dare give him a modkill because I understood that, given the circumstances, it would be almost a 100% win for the mafia, and the game would end very quickly. Therefore, I limited myself to scolding him in PM and giving him a warning there.

The fact that I didn't modkill him later after his post about the Master being 2D, and that I ignored Krabby's hints (but, to his credit, I only noticed these hints on the second read-through of the posts), is undoubtedly my fault. The town really didn't play very well, and if it hadn't been the first mafia game after the break, and if I hadn't had a strong desire not to spoil it with modkills, a couple of adeptus would have been caught. I apologize to Yashur and his team.

Another point that needs to be mentioned is my pictures with my mom, which the mafia members strongly criticized, seeing a hint there. And yes, I admit that it was unnecessary, and I shouldn't have interfered so much in the game. But I'll say this: although for some players, vague descriptions in the newspaper are one of the features of the game (Revan's settings are largely based on this, for example), I personally believe that the information in the newspaper should be accessible to everyone, and it's not very cool when players win by exploiting the ambiguity in the newspaper. When, after the newspaper was released, I realized that I had really made the death of Nephela too complicated, I felt ashamed of myself for violating my own principle, and that's why I decided to hint to the players that they had misunderstood it a little. Again, this is wrong, it's my fault, and I'm ready to face your tomatoes.

But, overall, I've drawn conclusions for myself. First, ХВ is not ready for this level of complexity in the setting. I strongly recommend making the next game even simpler. Secondly, I really regret that I didn't introduce notes into the game. You see, having notes allows you to move all this mind games with hints and half-reveals there. And considering that they usually can't be signed, anonymity and room for bluffing are preserved. Next time I host a game, I will definitely introduce notes, which I will moderate, for example, by directly checking the adeptus, and I will punish such hints in the main thread immediately. And I also ask the players not to play in the thread like they did in this mafia game.

Among the players, I would like to separately mention Links, Nephela, Morning, Fragment, Yashur, and Menti. There was a lot of activity from them in PM, they discussed a lot out loud (I didn't give anyone hints in PM, don't worry, I'm not that bad of a GM), and it was incredibly fun to see how some of them were targeting completely the wrong players, who were actually mafia. XD Before the end of the game, I wanted to comment on the night actions of individual players, but I decided not to do that in the end; the game was played, and there's no need to argue now.

I'm not against hosting another game (or even more), but I would even more like to play myself. So, I hope that the next game will happen, that it will be soon, and that a worthy GM will be found for it.

Thank you all again!

Based on psychology, he was sure she was Mafia, based on her status, she was aggressive. Of the aggressive roles, only Knight and Fragment remained. On the third night, there was no visible Mafia kill for the second night; Nebula was blocked, which means he was the father (then the Master) or a monster. Later, I was explained that Nebula was definitely not the father. Why isn't Lynx the father? Because there's no kill from the father on the second night, and no one blocked her. This leaves the possibility of a liar, or that the father's turn was spent on Nefelu, but that would be an unproductive coincidence that can be ignored, like, for example, trying to account for untraceable and completely random non-deductive tabletop elements in interpreting the newspaper, or like linking the absence of kills on any night to being in natural protection.

Okay, so it turns out that the conclusions were correct.

The thing is... it's not just about wanting to "do this and that," you also need to consider how successful it will be and what it will give us in the future. Ulting a player who will be blocked 90% of the time is a failure (and the saddest thing is that this failure was chosen consciously), and killing a player who is being healed with a 90% probability is also a failure. You can attack the Lizard whenever you want... No, but after playing against a total Adeptus, you can only play against another Adeptus during the day, which is unacceptable for me. What are the rules for then? Hmm... Is this what we call executions now?

And how much did we consider: "what will this give us in the future?". ) It wasn't noticeable.

Nice avatar, Tox. Personally, this image didn't give me any hints about Nephalem's actual role, but the subsequent direct comment in the spirit of "Why are you so slow, think about how I think" – well, not immediately, but yes. But that's how it was, you can't really change the GM x)

Yes, the GM successfully managed to mess things up on Friday night/Saturday morning... This wasn't ideal either, and I apologize for that too...

By the way, what did you think of the clues? Unfortunately, they weren't a major focus in this game, but I'd still like to hear feedback on their difficulty, interest, and complexity.

The problem was that I knew all along that the mafia members were online. So, I assumed that my mistakes had inadvertently revealed two of their identities.

I only managed to identify one Cop. Besides, the Master was already known to us because of the role check, so there was no need to worry so much.))) So, his reveal actually helped the town.
In my opinion, it would have been better to restart the game with a new role distribution than to do it this way: "Gentlemen of the mafia, I messed up badly, so now the town is allowed to adapt as much as it wants."

Added after 6 minutes

And how much did we consider: "what will this give us in the future?". ) It wasn't noticeable.

Well, it's hard to say... When we killed Vishmaster on the first night, I assumed that "in the future, there will be a corpse, because the probability of him being healed/protected is much lower than that of a "regular Master"", Nebk's ultimate on Humer "will give us at least one corpse in the future; maybe not the one we wanted, but at least it's guaranteed", the hypocrite's ultimate "will give us the opportunity to get rid of a mafia member without any "ifs or buts"". Something like that...