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Posts from Is diplomacy necessary?

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In reply to Мугайс
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Mugais;111919
Well, if you have all 7 creatures from different Castles, and even undead, then even expert leadership won't help. Moreover, such an army cannot be replenished - unless you capture a similar Castle. And creatures of level 6-7 almost never join. Also, neutral creatures often require astronomical sums to join. The question is - by the time you develop expert diplomacy and find creatures willing to join, enough time will pass for the AI to develop well and, if not destroy you, then at least significantly weaken your mixed army. Of course, on the "pawn" (easy) difficulty level, every other monster will join without diplomacy. But I prefer to play on "rook" (hard).
I'll just add a little for completeness.

1. The difficulty level of the map does not affect the joining of monsters.
2. 90% of players on this forum play on the "queen (or king?)" - "very hard" level.
3. Monsters of level 6-7 join just like monsters of level 1-5, if your hero's army is strong enough.
4. Expert diplomacy (if it is the goal) comes no later than the fifth level (and sometimes even on the fourth) - for this you need to take the appropriate hero-diplomats. And during this time, the AI will not develop - it's only a few days. Again, if joining units during the game is the goal.

So, diplomacy, if it is necessary, is a very useful skill. And if there is an opportunity to play with native units, then it is not needed at all... But on the other hand, if you remember the last Warlords tournament, a diplomat was able to join 2k gargoyles, 700 liches, and more than a thousand vampires - it would take a long time to gather such an army in your own cities :) ...
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In reply to AmberSoler
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to AmberSoler
I don't understand from your posts whether diplomacy is a useful or useless secondary skill, according to you. If it's useless, then give me an example of an ideal hero, in your opinion, with 8 useful secondary skills, and I'll try to replace one of them with diplomacy.
I personally consider diplomacy to be a kind of hidden, yet powerful skill.
DmitriyAS

Кто сильнее или шаблон для сравнения городов по силе.
Различие офф-лайна в Heroes II и Heroes III.
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Dmitry_A_S;111943
to AmberSoler
I don't understand from your posts whether diplomacy is a useful or useless secondary skill, according to you. If it's useless, then give me an example of an ideal hero, in your opinion, with 8 useful secondary skills, and I'll try to replace one of them with diplomacy.
I personally consider diplomacy to be a kind of hidden, yet powerful skill.

I understand that AmberSoler meant that the importance of diplomacy depends on your goal and tactics for developing on the map – whether you are gathering creatures in your own (or not your own) city, or you are looking at who is on the map, and your goal is to gather as many neutral creatures as possible.
P.S. My opinion is that you should definitely try playing with diplomacy just to know what this skill is, and whether to take it further or not is up to you.
Step aside from the way of a better man than you
So you fall at his feet hes the one who betrays you
Its the servants devotion for the decay
Stand up

There are no flowers on your grave
There are no chains
There I keep chanting for the forgotten name © Amorphis
In reply to eXeCuToR
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eXeCuToR;111948
As I understand it, AmberSoler meant that the importance of diplomacy depends on your goal and development tactics on the map – whether you gather creatures in your own (or not your own) city, or you look at who is on the map, and your goal is to gather as many neutral creatures as possible.
P.S. My opinion is that you should definitely try playing with diplomacy just to know what this skill is, and whether to take it further or not is up to you.

I remember that at first, AmberSoler was categorically against diplomacy. It seems like he's slowly starting to change his mind.
DmitriyAS

Кто сильнее или шаблон для сравнения городов по силе.
Различие офф-лайна в Heroes II и Heroes III.
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Dmitry_A_S;111950
I remember that at first, AmberSoler was categorically against diplomacy. It seems like he started to compromise gradually.
Where exactly was I against it? :) I said that if there is no goal to gather troops during the game, then diplomacy can be replaced by most skills, which ultimately are more useful for the game...

1. If we are playing with a fixed map, where scouting has revealed deposits of strong units heading towards the diplomat, we look at how much time it will take for these units to reach him... Sometimes the game ends faster... :) Only pragmatism works here, and nothing else. I would rather take attack or intelligence for the main hero, but never diplomacy. All schools of magic, wisdom, logistics - are a given. That's why I put diplomacy next to Eagle Eye (but it's even worse... :) )

There are specially trained people for diplomacy :) And the hero's level does not affect the ability of monsters to join - attack and defense can be gained through artifacts, so we don't need strong diplomats. My diplomats are rarely above level five or six, but I level them up (if the focus is on diplomacy) in the first place.

2. If we are playing with a random map, then diplomacy is a burden because it's not interesting :) The poor AI is already struggling, and now hordes of freebies are coming to you. I usually fight them, rather than joining them... And in general, my game always focuses on magic, not on brute force... I sacrifice free units at the altar if there is one nearby, otherwise I just fight them, but I don't join them... Morale, you see, is more important - because I never take leadership for the main hero... :)

But - this is my personal tactic and preference. Everyone has their own - and everything said earlier (before this post) did not reflect my attitude towards diplomacy. I was just saying that everything depends on the specific circumstances... Sometimes it is impossible to do without it, and sometimes it is just a useless ballast (not many skills have such a dualism of usefulness). That's why you saw comments both "for" and "against" it in my statements.
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There's a special artifact for diplomats – it's called the Spirit of Despair. With it, morale isn't a problem, and you can mix up to 7 factions. As for leadership, I don't like it; it just takes up space.
Слово "РАСА" пишется с одной буквой С.
В слове ВОИН нет буквы Й.
Пять восклицательных знаков в конце каждого предложения - признак подростковых комплексов.
In reply to Феанор
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Feanor;112094
There is a special artifact for diplomats – it’s called the Spirit of Despair. With it, morale is no longer a problem, and you can mix even 7 factions. And I don’t like leadership; it just takes up space.
Not quite. The Spirit of Despair removes the bonuses, but not the penalties...
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In reply to AmberSoler
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AmberSoler;111934
Just adding a bit for completeness.

1. The difficulty level of the map does not affect the joining of monsters.

I don't know. But I have repeatedly observed that at a low difficulty level, monsters are more likely to join on their own than at higher levels.
AmberSoler;111934


2. 90% of the players on this forum play at the "queen (or king?)" - "extremely difficult" level.

I'm very happy for 90% of the players, but the AI doesn't get any smarter above "rook." After that, it just reduces the player's resources and increases the computer's resources. In my opinion, it's a pointless challenge. But this is already off-topic.
Подмосковный рейнджер, не ведающий стаха
In reply to Мугайс
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Mugais;112115
I don't know. But I've repeatedly noticed that at a lower difficulty level, monsters are more likely to join on their own than at higher levels.

Well, you're wrong about that... Maybe you're talking about player-created maps? But in random maps generated by the editor, the computer ALWAYS sets the 4th joining level, i.e., "unlikely to join."
I'll also correct Amber a bit about what he said, that if you play with the forces of your own castle, there's no point in using diplomacy... it depends: for example, if I play as Conflux - 3 monsters with immunity to fire, and with diplomacy, I can easily find 4 more, and then Armageddon - it will be quite difficult to deal with that ;).
Mugais;112115
I'm very happy for 90% of the players, but the computer doesn't get any smarter above "Bishop" difficulty. Then it just starts reducing the player's resources and increasing the computer's resources. In my opinion, it's a pointless challenge. But this is already off-topic.

Here again, you're mistaken - even directly in the battle itself, the computer changes its combat tactics, for example, it forgets to "wait," which gives an even more convincing victory over it :)
"Единственное, что можно сказать с уверенностью об удаче - она изменит..."
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In general, diplomacy would be quite helpful if it could at least bring the morale up to zero, while you have a large number of troops of the highest level. And also, the Shackles of War! By the way, it's a good artifact because the AI is a jerk and constantly retreats when it sees that things are going badly, but before a battle, you can almost always check whether it's worth putting these chains on yourself, or you might end up making things worse.
Step aside from the way of a better man than you
So you fall at his feet hes the one who betrays you
Its the servants devotion for the decay
Stand up

There are no flowers on your grave
There are no chains
There I keep chanting for the forgotten name © Amorphis
In reply to eXeCuToR
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eXeCuToR;112406
but before the battle, you can almost always check if it's worth putting on these chains, or maybe you'll end up making a fool of yourself)))

And the puddle from what you see might very well be of your own making :)
DmitriyAS

Кто сильнее или шаблон для сравнения городов по силе.
Различие офф-лайна в Heroes II и Heroes III.
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Dmitry_A_S;112410
And the puddle resulting from what you saw might very well be of your own making.

You clearly understood what I meant.
Step aside from the way of a better man than you
So you fall at his feet hes the one who betrays you
Its the servants devotion for the decay
Stand up

There are no flowers on your grave
There are no chains
There I keep chanting for the forgotten name © Amorphis
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Diplomacy is necessary when you don't have enough gold to buy an army. And on XL difficulty, it's practically indispensable!
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The point of the game is to have fun. It's challenging to win against a superior opponent. Diplomacy is very straightforward. Everyone starts to scatter, it's just a matter of time. I'm for "No Diplomacy".
SS-D:smile17:
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In XL, logistics are essential, and you should focus on developing those skills before enemies overwhelm you. Diplomacy is definitely not one of them. It's unlikely that you'll consistently find creatures that are from your castle and willing to join for a small price.
Step aside from the way of a better man than you
So you fall at his feet hes the one who betrays you
Its the servants devotion for the decay
Stand up

There are no flowers on your grave
There are no chains
There I keep chanting for the forgotten name © Amorphis

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