Posts from The 8th stage of the annual John Van Caneghem Tournament (2007).

Well, why not? I clearly saw 2 groups of vampires that didn't join for free. But first, I thought it wouldn't be enough for the Rust faction, and second, I was impressed by the power of the mighty Gorgons and how easily they joined. In short, seeing the Gorgons, I immediately stopped exploring the map and didn't even pay attention or think about the possibility of another option – joining more than 2 vampire stacks. Basically, I didn't explore the map properly and focused on only one possible strategy. Well, if I had been given another month to complete the map, just out of boredom, I might have seen this alternative strategy (or some other one), and who knows, we could have competed again based on initial parameters. Oh, what am I dreaming about? The tournament ended a long time ago. We are all moving on to stage 9 in Heroes 4 "Saving Angel." Once again, congratulations to the winner! :smile24:

But I thought, firstly, that this would be too little for the Rust faction,
and secondly, I was impressed by the power of the mighty Gorgons,
and how easily they join your army.

I understand you. Gorgons are powerful. When you need to kill something big and scary, they are always the first thought.

Well, if they had given another month to complete the map, I might have found this walkthrough option (or some other),
and who knows, maybe we could have competed again on the initial parameters.

It's easy, especially on Mercury, I definitely didn't get enough of it due to the time constraints. And maybe I could squeeze in one more level.

Oh, what am I dreaming about. The tournament ended a long time ago.
Now we move on to the 9th stage of Heroes 4 "Saving Angel".

But we are not in a favorable position there. There is one Iron favorite.

I made an extract from the saves (2 zip archives of 2 MB each), but they don't want to attach to the messages. What could be the reason?

learn 2 times, then "and" learn one more time!!! As I mentioned above, nothing but a power-based approach came to mind. I only managed to last 37 days out of the initial 50. No diplomacy or tricks at all. I lost to BigAke in terms of skills, and I don't even care that I'm not in the table. I learned a lot of new things. I always considered diplomacy to be complete nonsense. I see that I was wrong. But the main thing is not this, but the fact that I started too late... it's ridiculous to sit up all night and play a clearly bad strategy. What are "forces" and how do they affect the possibility of joining? And in general, I see that I don't know much. Where can I find comprehensive information about the intricacies of Heroes 3? I was very unlucky - all my opponents over the years of playing at work are simply bigger losers than I am... by the way, that nonsense I said about the difficulty of this map... if without diplomacy, then in general, yes. You could even put it in a separate category.

What are "forces" and how do they affect the ability to join factions? And generally, I see that I don't know much. Where can I find comprehensive information about the intricacies of Heroes 3? I haven't been very lucky – all my opponents over many years of playing at work are simply bigger noobs than me… By the way, regarding the nonsense I said about the difficulty of this map… if we exclude diplomacy, then yes, in general. You could even put it in a separate category.

Download PhysMig; it has almost everything. Here is a topic where it is discussed:

/topic/421/

There you will also find a link to it.

and I don't even care that I'm not in the table

By the way, it's unclear why you're not in the table:confused: My save hasn't even been counted yet, but I'm in the ranking, and yours has been counted and...:confused:

You can still somehow understand them, but when generally recognized strong players end up in such a scam, you have to be surprised... "I won't send the save, because I'm not sure about its quality..." No one has ever been stoned for a bad result... What's the difference?

That's why I always promote the slogan: Participating in a tournament is primary, the result is secondary. Even if you never take a prize-winning place, participating in tournaments and reading discussions and walkthrough descriptions after the tournament will still help you learn to play Heroes better.

Added 11 minutes ago

I agree. Strong players experience this symptom many times more intensely - at this point, they lose virtual honor and respect.:) They want to maintain their level.

I disagree that even if a strong player starts playing worse, they will lose respect :) Honor - maybe yes. But maybe it just means that others have significantly raised their level of play and become the leaders. But how did they raise their level of play, if not by looking at the walkthroughs of the former leader? And the reluctance of strong players to participate because of the fear of getting into trouble... I always remember the movie "An Ordinary Miracle" where Leonov played the king-satrap :) There was a Hunter, and he had a student. The student asked the hunter to go hunting, but he refused. He said - what if I miss! There will be a lot of talk afterwards :) Something like that. When going to a tournament, you need to think like this: The main thing is that I play for the sake of the game itself - and the result and place will be seen later :)

Added 7 minutes ago

And don't even get me started... I completely messed up: I decided to attack the Rust Dragons, and I didn't develop diplomacy at all. The result is 37 days:(

Wow, that's a great result. I don't understand how you completed it in that many days WITHOUT DIPLOMACY! It would be interesting if all the participants in the tournament posted information about which troops (type and quantity) they used to defeat the key guards guarding the computer opponent.

Added 8 minutes ago

Dmitry has shocked us again. For me, 14 days is the same as completing it in three days.

Didn't FireBall shock you? :) He's doing great, thinking outside the box and proving it again and again in the tournament with his walkthroughs.
P.S. A request to the leaders (FireBall, vbn, Dmitry A.S., Radik). Those who recruited Gargon, please post your saves (immediately before recruiting) on the forum. And those who didn't recruit him, but defeated them with something else - I want to see the save immediately before attacking the Rust Dragons. I think the other participants in the tournament will also be interested in seeing such saves.

Added 3 minutes ago

I looked at the results table!
My applause to our leaders, I thought 14 days was a lot...and here's what happenedI'm going to dry my socks...

:) Why socks right away? Where were your pants? :) Just kidding :)

Added 11 minutes ago

2 snake riders, 5 lizards, 2 gnolls, and a ballista

Is that true? :) Fire, were the thieves running around the snake riders? I'm also interested in what troops you used to defeat the vampires. And the save immediately before attacking the large group of Dragons. Well, a non-standard walkthrough is cool! ;)

Added 5 minutes ago

All the vampires joined for money.

What do you need to do for them to join for money, besides money? Does the composition of your army matter at this point?

Added 1 minute ago

I see that they are with Gurnisson - but how did they get there, you need money to recruit them!!!

What are "funds"?????????????????????????????

Added 5 minutes ago

Great job, Fireball!
Congratulations on the victory, and what a victory!
VBN - also good!
You both - a description.
How can you not love this game!!!!

It seems that you also need a description, even if it's short :)
Congratulations to the leaders on their excellent results!
And thank you to all the participants in the tournament who, one way or another, made it to the finish line, for their will and perseverance ;)

Added 16 minutes ago

Description of the "I and my shadow" scenario

vbn! Excellent description. But could you add a little more to it, indicating what troops the Diplomat has when he recruits additional troops for free or for money.

Added 7 minutes ago

So, the scouting played a crucial role here.

I haven't looked at the saves yet, I can't at work. But I'm already interested - how many vampires do you need in your army to kill 20 Rust Dragons? The battle tactic is probably to have the vampires huddle in a corner. Then they can only be attacked by two slots of Rust Dragons, three each - right?

Added 16 minutes ago

I understand you. Gorgons are powerful. When you need to kill something big and scary, the first thought is always about them.

Well, and Vampires are also good when you need to kill something big and scary, BUT SLOWLY :) I, like vbn, didn't think about vampires precisely because I thought there wouldn't be enough of them for the Rust Dragons and didn't even check :( And therefore, all efforts were focused on finding the right hero (by the way, an interesting point - the main hero is different for most participants :) with the skills of diplomacy + navigation + logistics or pathfinding. In this regard, Fireball had it easier when searching for a hero - he didn't need navigation at all, as he decided to go by land, having previously checked the option with vampires regarding the possibility of winning key battles with the Dragons.

But we're not in favor there. There's one Iron favorite.

I'm already tired of the end of the tournament. I have a ton of Iron - it was hard to run :) So, maybe you'll still be lucky in stage 9.

Added 5 minutes ago

but the main thing is not in this, but in the fact that I started late... it's funny to sit all night and play a knowingly bad option.

I don't see anything funny :) Well, if there was no other option. I also understood that my chosen main hero was not the right one, but I didn't have time to dig deeper. And I also hammered out a walkthrough, knowing that it was not the best. But I had to create at least some kind of final save and manage to meet the deadline.

01 - Recruit 33 Monarch Wyverns. 02 - Recruit 55 Gorgons. 03 - Battle with angels (all Gorgons survive). 04 - Before the battle with the Rust Dragons. 05 - After the battle with the Rust Dragons.

Too bad I didn't manage to send the save file. Could you please tell me who took 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place, if possible?

/topic/2077/
13 пост

Thank you, Vanechka. It’s a pity you were disqualified.

Is this for real? Fire, what, did the thieves run after the snakes?

Some ran, and some groups hit the ballista. Those were the ones that needed to be quickly reduced so the ballista wouldn't be killed before it wore down the gnolls. The lizards turned out to be useful, and the snakes finished off the single units. The battle isn't that difficult.

I'm also interested in the question of which troop composition did the vampires surrender to?

28 snakes, 30 cerberi, 20 swordsmen, and a spellcaster. And that's with some to spare.

And as for surrendering for money — what is needed for this besides money? Is the composition of your own army important or not?

It is important whether you have the same creatures in your army and its overall strength, which was exactly where the problems were.

I'm posting my Walkthrough here. It indicates what joined which armies.

Scouting
About the map .

The map is quite generous with available money and resources. Some of them are free, some are guarded by armies of varying strengths. Large armies guard the approaches to the enemy.
It immediately becomes obvious that diplomacy is indispensable.

About troops and magic .

At the start, we are given one spellcaster, and there are flying snakes in the Castle. Not too bad for a start.
The main striking force consists of joined armies, but in most cases they require money, which is limited for us. The question arises as to the expediency of joining certain creatures.
A decision was immediately made to strive to collect 76 vampires. The option with shooters and a force field was dismissed almost immediately; swimming for gorgons wasn't even considered—it takes too long. To implement the vampire strategy, it was necessary to first join snakes, swordsmen, and cerberi.
Magical support for the army proved difficult to achieve due to lack of money and low hero levels, as experience was distributed among 4 heroes before the battles with dragons.

About heroes

This map is unusual in that logistics specialists were not needed, nor were scholars. Two ballistas, two diplomats, and a power-hitter were required. All of this would combine nicely with a Ranger.
In the end, Gurnisson, Peer (who later fabulously leveled Logistics and Ranger), Lord Haart (Diplomacy expert at level 5), Malcolm (Diplomacy expert by level 6 via Tier 1 Ranger) were used. Alkin (an ordinary starting hero, but by level 6 having same-level Attack and Defense Tier 3, Tactics Tier 1 — ideal for the battle with dragons).

About resources

To join 76 vampires, 46000 and a corresponding army are needed. Cerberi were joined for 7500, and basilisks and lizards also had to be built. Theoretically, one could do without the lizards, but when taking the dwarf treasury, Baba Yaga was definitely against it, and losses were higher than planned.

Day 111
Some go into the woods, some for firewood.

Alkin with one wizard takes a chest +1500 and a pile of gold +1500. He kills imps and takes another 2 chests +1500, +2000. Andra is purchased.
Andra with one upgraded snake runs left for a chest +1000 and a campfire +400, 4 sand. Gurnisson and Lord Haart are purchased.
Gurnisson gives his ballista to Haart and runs down, visiting the Stone.
Lord Haart with 2 snakes (hereafter always upgraded), 5 lizards, 2 gnolls kills bandits near the sawmill, losing the lizards and gnolls in the process, and heads toward the diamond golems.

Day 112
Beasts stood by the door.
They screamed — they were not let in.
Beasts stood by the door.
They were shot at, they died.

Alkin behind the dwarf-house takes a chest +100 and 2 campfires of +500, 5 mercury and stops near the ghosts.
Gurnisson grabs a chest +1000, campfire +600, 6 gems. He runs down and takes a campfire +600, 6 stone. Peer and Malcolm are purchased. Malcolm takes the ballista.
Peer with a snake takes a chest near the watermill +1500.
Andra stands to the left of 30 snakes.
Lord Haart in one touch takes a chest of 1000 experience (Wisdom Tier 1), campfire +600, 6 wood. Then he attacks diamond golems and kills them with the ballista, receiving Diplomacy Tier 2, and heads up.
Malcolm with a snake and an imp similarly kills gold golems (Diplomacy Tier 1) and runs to the Stone.

Separately, I want to thank sir vbn for the you-know-what=program.

Day 113
A Tale of Friendship and Unfriendliness.
Or how a druid quarreled with dwarves.

We build basilisks and buy Ash.
Ash with her army, 12 gnolls, and 4 basilisks runs to Andra, takes the snake from Andra, and waits for Haart to hand over forces.
Lord Haart kills goblins and troglodytes, receiving Diplomacy Tier 3. With an army of 8 snakes, 4 basilisks, 5 gogs, 12 gnolls, 23 imps, and 1 spearman, he joins 30 snakes.
Taking only one with him (the rest are with Andra), he runs to the cerberi.
Andra visits a flag, kills 100 spearmen (all snakes, gogs, and 1 basilisk survived), takes Clover and 2 chests +1500, and hands the army over to Peer.
Peer gives it to Alkin and freezes near the griffins.
Alkin delivers forces to Malcolm (who already has a spellcaster).
Malcolm begins to gain experience sequentially. He kills 30 ghosts without losses; on dwarves he loses gogs and a basilisk, and in the treasury 4 snakes die a heroic death (although theoretically it's possible without losses, but that's only in theory).
We buy Charna. She takes wood, the sawmill, and returns to the castle.
Gurnisson takes the snakes and breaks through the snipers, but spends the night before the gates.

Day 114 .
Oh, how many of them are ready to give blood
For pleasure!
In them is bliss and love,
Like a dream and awakening.
But the count is always alone
Under the freezing vault of darkness.
He loves to dream of death.

Gurnisson kills skeletons with the ballista, takes a chest +1500 and campfire +400, 4 stone.
We build lizards. Charna takes 5 lizards and 2 gnolls and hands them to Alkin.
Alkin gives forces to Malcolm, who has already taken the snakes from Gurnisson. Malcolm joins swordsmen and returns a significantly grown army to Alkin, while he himself takes a chest +2000, visits the market, sells some resources so that there will be enough for cerberi and vampires later (needs 7500+8000), and stops near the spearmen.
Then Alkin gives everything to Peer, who in turn gives it to Haart and stands by the garrison.
Lord Haart joins cerberi and kills centaurs. He is left with 28 snakes, 30 cerberi, 20 swordsmen, and a spellcaster; he takes a chest +2000, Andra takes a chest +1500. Haart joins vampires and stops near the crypt. Andra takes the army from him.
Ash takes mercury near the laboratory and visits the watermill.

Day 115
The wood is a mess, start from the beginning.

Lord Haart attacks the crypt and flees.
Andra takes the crypt, gives the army to Peer, and resigns.
Ash picks up campfire +400 and 4 wood, chest +1500, and resigns.
Charna picks up sand, captures the quarry, and runs to the market.
Gurnisson picks up chests +2000, +1500 and 3 neighboring campfires (total +1500 and 15 stone).
He heads toward the djinn.
Peer sequentially breaks through snipers (without losses), ghosts, and golems, picking up an artifact +2 Knowledge, +2 Sorcery along the way. She is left with 18 snakes, 28 cerberi, 16 vampires, 20 swordsmen, and a spellcaster. Peer receives Mysticism Tier 1 and Ranger Tier 2. After capturing the castle, she receives Logistics Tier 2.
In the second castle, we buy Gretchin and Piguedram.
Gretchin with 1 snake and 16 vampires runs to the nagas.
Piguedram runs past the crusaders in search of money.
Malcolm attacks spearmen and flees. We buy him in the Barbarian castle and send him southeast toward the vampires with a snake.
We buy Lord Haart, who with an army of 1 goblin, 11 hobgoblins, 20 swordsmen, 28 cerberi, 15 snakes, and 1 spellcaster runs up to other vampires.
Alkin takes Stone, attacks bandits, and flees.

Day 116
Ricky-ticki-ticki-ticki-tock!

Piguedram takes chests +2000, +1500, +1000 and campfires +600 and 6 stone, +500 and 5 wood, +400 and 4 gems, and resigns.
Gurnisson stands next to the djinn.
Charna takes stone and wood, enters the market, and trades periodically.
Peer kills gnolls, takes chests +2000, +1000 and moves toward the portal.
Gretchin kills nagas, opens the vault, hands 16 vampires to Haart, who joins another 30.
Lord Haart runs down, taking with him 46 vampires, 1 snake, and 20 cerberi.
We buy Rissa, who transfers cerberi and vampires from Haart to Malcolm.
We buy Alkin, who visits the mill and stands next to Peer, receiving 1 snake.
Malcolm wipes out crusaders and elves, picks up 2 chests of +2000 each and rider's gloves.

Day 117
"Nonsense, I'll eat my way back!"
A popular vampire saying.

Lord Haart takes campfire +500 and 5 mercury, chest +1500.
Malcolm takes a chest +1500, joins 30 vampires, picks up 2 piles of mercury, and gives 76 vampires to Rissa, who transfers them to Alkin.
Alkin kills 1+1 azure dragons near the portals at the Barbarian castles and gives the vampires to Peer.
Peer kills lords of the abyss near the castle in the swamp (receives Ranger Tier 3), picks up armor +5 Sorcery, and transfers the vampires and artifact to Gurnisson.
Gurnisson kills djinn, picks up a helmet +5 Knowledge, and on the way to the portal kills 6 angels.
Any hero runs out of the castle in the snow, dives into the portal, and transfers artifacts and 76 vampires from Gurnisson to Alkin.
Alkin without much trouble kills 5 crystal dragons near the starting castle and reaches level 6.
Then it's time for 2 groups of 20 rusty dragons and 5 crystals at the enemy castle to die, into which Alkin enters without a fight.
In this castle, we build Valhalla and buy Ivor, who with 76 vampires kills Vokial and Craig Hack, giving the trophy shield and sword to Alkin. Alkin in auto-battle mode kills Vei.

Victory!

Total : 7 days, Alkin level 16 with stats 12-16-10-10 (sum 48). 36 mercury.

Fire, you're a genius. My applause!!!
I've already printed it out; I'm going to start learning.

Fire, you're a genius. My applause!!!
I've already printed it out, I'm going to study it.

:) Yeah, and the main thing is that after reading the walkthrough, everything becomes clear, and you think, "How could I not have figured it out myself?" But in reality, it's a time-consuming option. Here, you need to scout the heroes and explore to see who diplomacy will work with, and there are long battles against slow units (thankfully, the ballista killer works), and chains for transferring troops. It all exists.
And I think this map would be perfect for the Best Of Best tournament! But, apparently, the organizers have even better maps.

But in reality, this option is quite time-consuming. You need to scout the heroes and check who will be receptive to diplomacy.

Well, this had to be done in all scenarios. Much depends on luck. I happened to find Malcolm early on, so I only had to check the rest on their first two promotions, and after Haart, even just on one. And the hero-finding tool with 15 heroes in the list works almost instantly.

and long battles against slow units (thankfully, the ballista killer works well),

It definitely works well, but it strains your mouse. nwcAres is still better.

and chains for transferring troops.

No one can do without them. What was annoying was the lack of a Ranger among most of the heroes.

It's definitely great, but it takes over the mouse. nwcAres is still better.

Did you mean Arcomage, or something else? The code nwcAres is for Heroes of Might and Magic IV – it means to win a battle. Is there an equivalent code in Heroes of Might and Magic III?