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I know, but it was said in the context of using scrolls without GM adjustments, which already perfectly solves the house rules issue, making it impossible to get confused.
Posts from A new plugin for Heroes 3 tournaments!
Ben80
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It’s a pity that Armaga’s message was deleted by the server; he was criticizing the object values in the original game.
Regarding the incorrect object values in the original game. The logic of the original game’s developers is not always as simple as it seems. For example, the value of beehives is so high, while that of cans is so low, because cans are harder to take. Or, for instance, imp slots have a high value because you can cut skeletons from them. And in general, it’s not always the developers’ logic that the higher the value, the more useful the object. They weren’t interested in the value itself, but in what generations (probabilities) it leads to. One of the reasons developers had to shift values away from the “objective” level is that different objects can have a similar “objective” value and will essentially interfere with each other’s generation (they will rarely be generated).
As an example, take the HotA (even if it’s not the original developers) value for obelisks — it’s 500. Does this mean they really value this object so low? No, it’s just that this value was convenient so that obelisks would only spawn on respawns, but not in treasures.
A good example is the same value for campfires and cans. From an online player’s perspective, this is absurd. But it all depends on the game’s conditions — map and zone size, game difficulty, number of players. For example, if each player gets a small piece of the map, difficulty is 200% (in short, it’s generally hard to develop), then a player with 2 campfires on respawn may end up in a more advantageous position than a player with 2 cans. Because they get a small but extremely important supply right now for development; they’ll find a beehive or consu later, in another zone. Meanwhile, the other player with 2 cans essentially gets nothing and falls behind in development.
I understand that for an online player this is nonsense. Online players constantly play on different templates, but the nature of the game is often suspiciously similar. You’re a bit fixated on certain game conditions and think that the conditions in which you play Heroes can only be that way.
I would advise making any major overhauls only for specific cases (templates), and for common templates — small tweaks like the value of scrolls. And even that isn’t mandatory.
Regarding the incorrect object values in the original game. The logic of the original game’s developers is not always as simple as it seems. For example, the value of beehives is so high, while that of cans is so low, because cans are harder to take. Or, for instance, imp slots have a high value because you can cut skeletons from them. And in general, it’s not always the developers’ logic that the higher the value, the more useful the object. They weren’t interested in the value itself, but in what generations (probabilities) it leads to. One of the reasons developers had to shift values away from the “objective” level is that different objects can have a similar “objective” value and will essentially interfere with each other’s generation (they will rarely be generated).
As an example, take the HotA (even if it’s not the original developers) value for obelisks — it’s 500. Does this mean they really value this object so low? No, it’s just that this value was convenient so that obelisks would only spawn on respawns, but not in treasures.
A good example is the same value for campfires and cans. From an online player’s perspective, this is absurd. But it all depends on the game’s conditions — map and zone size, game difficulty, number of players. For example, if each player gets a small piece of the map, difficulty is 200% (in short, it’s generally hard to develop), then a player with 2 campfires on respawn may end up in a more advantageous position than a player with 2 cans. Because they get a small but extremely important supply right now for development; they’ll find a beehive or consu later, in another zone. Meanwhile, the other player with 2 cans essentially gets nothing and falls behind in development.
I understand that for an online player this is nonsense. Online players constantly play on different templates, but the nature of the game is often suspiciously similar. You’re a bit fixated on certain game conditions and think that the conditions in which you play Heroes can only be that way.
I would advise making any major overhauls only for specific cases (templates), and for common templates — small tweaks like the value of scrolls. And even that isn’t mandatory.
Armageddets
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That's right — there will always be dissatisfied people, but they've always existed even without changes. No matter what anyone does, there will be both supporters and those who don't like it. The most important thing is — please don't perceive everything I strive for as imposition under any circumstances. First, all of this might not catch on; second, enabling or disabling the plugin is up to each person (like a checkbox in settings).
1) I disagree that taking a Griffin Conservatory one or two is harder than max Dragon Fly Hives. First, the speed of wyverns is higher and losses are often greater; second, single Griffin Conservatories are taken in the first week, doubles in week 1-2. Griffin Conservatories are already being taken both without losses and with losses (from "zhor"/overeating) by many.
2) Regarding HotA — their template editor immediately sets which objects will be in a zone and which won't — without even changing the value itself — this already leads to more precise intentions of template creators (we unfortunately don't have such template editors).
3) And even on the M template, a single Griffin Conservatory is taken in week 1-2, which gives a huge boost in tempo. And there should definitely be no lag in tempo. And that one angel will break through all the mines, most guards (especially with the help of magic), etc. Campfires don't give a significant advantage. They can give you the missing resource for a building, but this cannot compare with the capabilities of even a single angel on the map. The skill level of players is constantly growing. And we don't always keep up with it.
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1. What is the point of changing the values of all scrolls? First, we don't have the functionality to change the value of specific spells. Second, the rule only exists for banning scrolls of levels 4-5 (not control scrolls). Specifically for levels 4 and 5, I proposed setting decent guards. It's not for me to decide the strength. We do have that functionality. As for the point of setting the same value for Sacrifice and Fly, for example? Again, we don't have the necessary functionality, and also in Heroes there is randomness everywhere, and you can't do without luck. When you run for Pandora's Boxes, you also don't always get what you need (though it's roughly calculable), or when you beat an Utopia — you get a lottery ticket.
2. What's wrong with HVRules? The fact that it went down the path of blocking game functionality, and newcomers still need to learn a lot of rules. The more rules, the higher the chance of breaking them. Let's not forget that both newcomers and people who are not sober or have some problems can play (rules don't care about that). And many problems are not solved by it. For me, HVRules is primarily — guild restructuring, object bans, utilities before the start of the game.
3. I'm the same kind of philosopher (theorist in Heroes) as all of you and I often make mistakes and fantasize about "what if..." (and then test it in practice). These fantasies are primarily caused by communication with newcomers. It so happens that our activity is primarily directed at them. The easier it is for newcomers to integrate into the community, the better it is for the community itself. And having integrated into the community, they can quite get used to anything (here is your element — I don't interfere here (I can only suggest)). Why go far — some players started playing online purely because of the arena tournament, which saves time. And having experienced it, they will probably try other formats too (at least some of them). There is definitely nothing bad about this.
4. Perhaps not everyone noticed, but SoD is already divided into at least 2 groups. These are offline Heroes (playing through maps, campaigns, playing against the computer + newcomers who play by their own rules and have fun) and tournament Heroes (with HVRules, a bunch of rules, lobby, etc.). The first ones love Heroes 3 as the developers created them and don't care what happens in tournaments (many don't even know about them). The second ones want balance and for skill to decide as much as possible through more even distributions, for bugs to be fixed, for comfort to increase, game time to be reduced, and so on. But besides players, there are also people who not only use other people's developments but also do something or want to do something for players (tournament organizers and hosts, plugin developers, template creators, community managers, etc.) — the reasons are very different. But the capabilities of modders are partially limited (thanks to Baratorch and similar guys, thanks to whom we have the ability to influence the game). The capabilities of template builders are also very limited. Each template had its own design, but in reality, the generator does whatever it wants with your design. Even the capabilities of mapmakers in the editor are severely limited, which saddens them. Moreover, even tournaments are now divided into regular ones (with an emphasis on familiarity in rules and formats) and show tournaments (with an emphasis on spectacle and popularization of Heroes). Communicating with different organizers (including on HeroesWorld, we encountered a lack of capabilities to implement necessary things). Tournament organization can follow the pattern of "I want it this way and I don't care about your opinions," as well as the pattern of "let's discuss what's best for the majority."
What is all this for? To the point that we need to immediately distinguish between fun/original Heroes and the tournament version. They are already too different. And if the community is alive, they will progress. The question is only in what direction and at what speed. Each of us can choose any direction, but if the community does not support it (by community I mean not only this portal), the direction will die. That is, the community itself will weed out absurd ideas and good ones. Any idea can lead to a "brainstorm" and even give birth to another, more sensible one. It's much worse when there are no ideas and no initiative.
Once, we (a number of players) pushed an initiative with show tournaments. In the end, it became the norm. At one time, we (many in the community) raised the topic of simultaneous turns in SoD, and many laughed, saying "there's HotA (and earlier WT), why?" We even managed to obtain the source code from the WT version, and seemingly on the same day or around then (+/-), Baratorch delighted us with news. Then there was an attempt to gather players from different countries and portals and organize an "a-la" team world championship in Heroes. There were plenty of skeptics, but there was also plenty of help — in the end, the matter was brought to completion (new viewers and new communities learned about us, they even wrote about us). That is, the positives were still extracted. There were a number of templates that we wrote and discussed with some template builders — many also said it was nonsense, why do this, there are already normal templates and that's enough. But first, some of them did catch on (a very small part and in separate pockets, but still, not much time has passed, and the competition among templates is high); second, we gained a lot of experience in this matter and now understand it much better; third, video guides were even recorded on how to make and edit templates yourself. If something doesn't suit you in them, you can sit at home and make Heroes the way you want. There were also initiatives that have not yet led to the intended result — recording games of other players with their permission brought a lot of headaches, takes a lot of time, and there is a constant struggle with copyrights. But first, it's a memory of us and those who are no longer with us, a memory of tournaments and events in the Heroes world; it's also water for newcomers, and it's an opportunity to prepare for your opponents knowing their play style, mistakes, tempo, etc. (especially for newcomers). Therefore, any initiative must lead to something.
5. Now regarding this specific plugin. What are its prospects? I have no idea. It might catch on, but with serious edits and discussions; it might not catch on at all under any edits and sink into oblivion; or it might be used by a small group of people; it might be used in some one tournament or a specific format of tournaments. This plugin expands opportunities for those who make templates (including me), and also gives additional opportunities for tournament organizers to create those tournament formats that they previously could not afford. After all, everyone makes those tournaments that are interesting to them as a viewer and organizer (with rare exceptions), and players then choose whether to play in such tournaments or not. That is, if organizers have more opportunities and diversity, in theory it will attract more organizers, which means more choice for you as players.
6. Regarding object values. Here I will only touch upon tournament Heroes. Fun Heroes suit me just fine — I don't care about winning there, and I still get the joy of randomness and unpredictability. But for tournaments, the assessment of object values categorically does not suit me — both as an organizer and template creator (I cannot set roughly equal distributions as intended) and as a player (with random single-creature distributions). For example, Griffin Conservatories are valued at 2000 and under the same value we have campfires, resources, Dwarf Cottages, shrines of level 2, and Pandora's Boxes with 5000 experience. That is, in the range of the same value, one might get 2 campfires, and the other 2 Griffin Conservatories, and for the generator — this will be equivalent (if we trust the table and I understand correctly). I'm not even mentioning other values. Therefore, for tournaments, I would certainly rework all objects by value and set them more adequately (subjectively, of course). At least more equivalent objects could theoretically be obtained within the same value. But I don't have as much experience as you, and without you, I would just create some chaos or fix it for many years. But even if we perfectly set the values, the problem will not be solved, as far as I understand. After all, all objects with a lower value appear in objects with a higher value. This is good on the one hand (for variety of zone filling not with endlessly repeating objects of a few types), but on the other hand, it makes the distributions not exactly what was intended. And in a template, only 3 value ranges can be set for each zone. Essentially, if it were possible to specify generation in detail for each zone, even based on the values that already exist, it would solve many of the problems described above. We are starting from the capabilities we have today and what we can do with them.
7. Regarding the fact that players won't get used to some innovations. Tell that to those who played in WoG and WT, then moved to SoD, then to HotA. Or tell that to those who constantly get used to the ever-changing rules on different portals. And newcomers on portals immediately start memorizing the rules and amendments to them. It takes some time, of course, and not everyone accepts changes. And I am categorically against any community abruptly changing and imposing something. Everything requires gradualness, healthy competition, and mutual assistance.
8. And well, actually, what is the goal of what I'm trying to do:
- Games without rules (rules should be embedded in the game and template).
- Speeding up the game, but preferably within reasonable limits.
- Not cutting anything out of the game at all (or almost nothing), only balancing it if possible.
- Popularizing Heroes (and by expanding opportunities, we also find more supporters, everyone finds something for themselves). The same SoD also brings players to HotA and vice versa. Everything is interconnected.
- Increasing the diversity of content and the number of streams about Heroes.
- Also, any activity (even the gaming industry) should promote not only entertainment to the masses but also carry some sensible things (from any field), in my opinion.
Lately, I've lost interest in watching streams about Heroes. Maybe I'm just saturated. Streams are usually turned on either out of habit in the background parallel to something, or more because of the commentators' interaction — rather than because of what's happening in the game. Although interesting short moments pop up, losing half a day of life (the duration of games is just killing) for the sake of a few minutes is not very appealing. XL games with Dungeon largely boil down to gaining control; M games to getting the best mage and spells — there are extremely few equal games, unfortunately, that I've managed to watch percentage-wise (although maybe I just don't come across them). But "equal game" is a relative thing. It would be good to at least have many interesting and non-stale solutions (they do happen, but not that often — percentage-wise). That's probably why I try to make tournaments completely different.
And well, perhaps the most important thing. Let's not forget that we are discussing a computer game. And no game should be one of the most important things in a person's life. In many ways, we are wasting time with much less benefit than we could bring to world society, our families, and ourselves, at the very least. And you absolutely cannot take offense at other players — it's just a game. It is not destined for everyone to agree in opinion; we are all different, not a herd. So, you shouldn't try to offend anyone with anyone's statements. You can offend me — because I hold no negativity towards anyone (offense comes from pride and misunderstanding). But many people react sharply to things directed at them. But think about it, you can offend and be offended because of a game — just like children)
1) I disagree that taking a Griffin Conservatory one or two is harder than max Dragon Fly Hives. First, the speed of wyverns is higher and losses are often greater; second, single Griffin Conservatories are taken in the first week, doubles in week 1-2. Griffin Conservatories are already being taken both without losses and with losses (from "zhor"/overeating) by many.
2) Regarding HotA — their template editor immediately sets which objects will be in a zone and which won't — without even changing the value itself — this already leads to more precise intentions of template creators (we unfortunately don't have such template editors).
3) And even on the M template, a single Griffin Conservatory is taken in week 1-2, which gives a huge boost in tempo. And there should definitely be no lag in tempo. And that one angel will break through all the mines, most guards (especially with the help of magic), etc. Campfires don't give a significant advantage. They can give you the missing resource for a building, but this cannot compare with the capabilities of even a single angel on the map. The skill level of players is constantly growing. And we don't always keep up with it.
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1. What is the point of changing the values of all scrolls? First, we don't have the functionality to change the value of specific spells. Second, the rule only exists for banning scrolls of levels 4-5 (not control scrolls). Specifically for levels 4 and 5, I proposed setting decent guards. It's not for me to decide the strength. We do have that functionality. As for the point of setting the same value for Sacrifice and Fly, for example? Again, we don't have the necessary functionality, and also in Heroes there is randomness everywhere, and you can't do without luck. When you run for Pandora's Boxes, you also don't always get what you need (though it's roughly calculable), or when you beat an Utopia — you get a lottery ticket.
2. What's wrong with HVRules? The fact that it went down the path of blocking game functionality, and newcomers still need to learn a lot of rules. The more rules, the higher the chance of breaking them. Let's not forget that both newcomers and people who are not sober or have some problems can play (rules don't care about that). And many problems are not solved by it. For me, HVRules is primarily — guild restructuring, object bans, utilities before the start of the game.
3. I'm the same kind of philosopher (theorist in Heroes) as all of you and I often make mistakes and fantasize about "what if..." (and then test it in practice). These fantasies are primarily caused by communication with newcomers. It so happens that our activity is primarily directed at them. The easier it is for newcomers to integrate into the community, the better it is for the community itself. And having integrated into the community, they can quite get used to anything (here is your element — I don't interfere here (I can only suggest)). Why go far — some players started playing online purely because of the arena tournament, which saves time. And having experienced it, they will probably try other formats too (at least some of them). There is definitely nothing bad about this.
4. Perhaps not everyone noticed, but SoD is already divided into at least 2 groups. These are offline Heroes (playing through maps, campaigns, playing against the computer + newcomers who play by their own rules and have fun) and tournament Heroes (with HVRules, a bunch of rules, lobby, etc.). The first ones love Heroes 3 as the developers created them and don't care what happens in tournaments (many don't even know about them). The second ones want balance and for skill to decide as much as possible through more even distributions, for bugs to be fixed, for comfort to increase, game time to be reduced, and so on. But besides players, there are also people who not only use other people's developments but also do something or want to do something for players (tournament organizers and hosts, plugin developers, template creators, community managers, etc.) — the reasons are very different. But the capabilities of modders are partially limited (thanks to Baratorch and similar guys, thanks to whom we have the ability to influence the game). The capabilities of template builders are also very limited. Each template had its own design, but in reality, the generator does whatever it wants with your design. Even the capabilities of mapmakers in the editor are severely limited, which saddens them. Moreover, even tournaments are now divided into regular ones (with an emphasis on familiarity in rules and formats) and show tournaments (with an emphasis on spectacle and popularization of Heroes). Communicating with different organizers (including on HeroesWorld, we encountered a lack of capabilities to implement necessary things). Tournament organization can follow the pattern of "I want it this way and I don't care about your opinions," as well as the pattern of "let's discuss what's best for the majority."
What is all this for? To the point that we need to immediately distinguish between fun/original Heroes and the tournament version. They are already too different. And if the community is alive, they will progress. The question is only in what direction and at what speed. Each of us can choose any direction, but if the community does not support it (by community I mean not only this portal), the direction will die. That is, the community itself will weed out absurd ideas and good ones. Any idea can lead to a "brainstorm" and even give birth to another, more sensible one. It's much worse when there are no ideas and no initiative.
Once, we (a number of players) pushed an initiative with show tournaments. In the end, it became the norm. At one time, we (many in the community) raised the topic of simultaneous turns in SoD, and many laughed, saying "there's HotA (and earlier WT), why?" We even managed to obtain the source code from the WT version, and seemingly on the same day or around then (+/-), Baratorch delighted us with news. Then there was an attempt to gather players from different countries and portals and organize an "a-la" team world championship in Heroes. There were plenty of skeptics, but there was also plenty of help — in the end, the matter was brought to completion (new viewers and new communities learned about us, they even wrote about us). That is, the positives were still extracted. There were a number of templates that we wrote and discussed with some template builders — many also said it was nonsense, why do this, there are already normal templates and that's enough. But first, some of them did catch on (a very small part and in separate pockets, but still, not much time has passed, and the competition among templates is high); second, we gained a lot of experience in this matter and now understand it much better; third, video guides were even recorded on how to make and edit templates yourself. If something doesn't suit you in them, you can sit at home and make Heroes the way you want. There were also initiatives that have not yet led to the intended result — recording games of other players with their permission brought a lot of headaches, takes a lot of time, and there is a constant struggle with copyrights. But first, it's a memory of us and those who are no longer with us, a memory of tournaments and events in the Heroes world; it's also water for newcomers, and it's an opportunity to prepare for your opponents knowing their play style, mistakes, tempo, etc. (especially for newcomers). Therefore, any initiative must lead to something.
5. Now regarding this specific plugin. What are its prospects? I have no idea. It might catch on, but with serious edits and discussions; it might not catch on at all under any edits and sink into oblivion; or it might be used by a small group of people; it might be used in some one tournament or a specific format of tournaments. This plugin expands opportunities for those who make templates (including me), and also gives additional opportunities for tournament organizers to create those tournament formats that they previously could not afford. After all, everyone makes those tournaments that are interesting to them as a viewer and organizer (with rare exceptions), and players then choose whether to play in such tournaments or not. That is, if organizers have more opportunities and diversity, in theory it will attract more organizers, which means more choice for you as players.
6. Regarding object values. Here I will only touch upon tournament Heroes. Fun Heroes suit me just fine — I don't care about winning there, and I still get the joy of randomness and unpredictability. But for tournaments, the assessment of object values categorically does not suit me — both as an organizer and template creator (I cannot set roughly equal distributions as intended) and as a player (with random single-creature distributions). For example, Griffin Conservatories are valued at 2000 and under the same value we have campfires, resources, Dwarf Cottages, shrines of level 2, and Pandora's Boxes with 5000 experience. That is, in the range of the same value, one might get 2 campfires, and the other 2 Griffin Conservatories, and for the generator — this will be equivalent (if we trust the table and I understand correctly). I'm not even mentioning other values. Therefore, for tournaments, I would certainly rework all objects by value and set them more adequately (subjectively, of course). At least more equivalent objects could theoretically be obtained within the same value. But I don't have as much experience as you, and without you, I would just create some chaos or fix it for many years. But even if we perfectly set the values, the problem will not be solved, as far as I understand. After all, all objects with a lower value appear in objects with a higher value. This is good on the one hand (for variety of zone filling not with endlessly repeating objects of a few types), but on the other hand, it makes the distributions not exactly what was intended. And in a template, only 3 value ranges can be set for each zone. Essentially, if it were possible to specify generation in detail for each zone, even based on the values that already exist, it would solve many of the problems described above. We are starting from the capabilities we have today and what we can do with them.
7. Regarding the fact that players won't get used to some innovations. Tell that to those who played in WoG and WT, then moved to SoD, then to HotA. Or tell that to those who constantly get used to the ever-changing rules on different portals. And newcomers on portals immediately start memorizing the rules and amendments to them. It takes some time, of course, and not everyone accepts changes. And I am categorically against any community abruptly changing and imposing something. Everything requires gradualness, healthy competition, and mutual assistance.
8. And well, actually, what is the goal of what I'm trying to do:
- Games without rules (rules should be embedded in the game and template).
- Speeding up the game, but preferably within reasonable limits.
- Not cutting anything out of the game at all (or almost nothing), only balancing it if possible.
- Popularizing Heroes (and by expanding opportunities, we also find more supporters, everyone finds something for themselves). The same SoD also brings players to HotA and vice versa. Everything is interconnected.
- Increasing the diversity of content and the number of streams about Heroes.
- Also, any activity (even the gaming industry) should promote not only entertainment to the masses but also carry some sensible things (from any field), in my opinion.
Lately, I've lost interest in watching streams about Heroes. Maybe I'm just saturated. Streams are usually turned on either out of habit in the background parallel to something, or more because of the commentators' interaction — rather than because of what's happening in the game. Although interesting short moments pop up, losing half a day of life (the duration of games is just killing) for the sake of a few minutes is not very appealing. XL games with Dungeon largely boil down to gaining control; M games to getting the best mage and spells — there are extremely few equal games, unfortunately, that I've managed to watch percentage-wise (although maybe I just don't come across them). But "equal game" is a relative thing. It would be good to at least have many interesting and non-stale solutions (they do happen, but not that often — percentage-wise). That's probably why I try to make tournaments completely different.
And well, perhaps the most important thing. Let's not forget that we are discussing a computer game. And no game should be one of the most important things in a person's life. In many ways, we are wasting time with much less benefit than we could bring to world society, our families, and ourselves, at the very least. And you absolutely cannot take offense at other players — it's just a game. It is not destined for everyone to agree in opinion; we are all different, not a herd. So, you shouldn't try to offend anyone with anyone's statements. You can offend me — because I hold no negativity towards anyone (offense comes from pride and misunderstanding). But many people react sharply to things directed at them. But think about it, you can offend and be offended because of a game — just like children)
Armageddets
Auto-translated
This year has proven to be very productive. Gratitude is expressed to Ben80 and Igrik for the plugins created upon request (+ a number of plugins were created long ago by various developers - we simply collected them for review, in case anyone needs them), thanks to the subscribers for testing, and thanks to Baratorch for a number of updates, fixes, and generally the ability to connect plugins to the HD mod.
Below I provide a list of which plugins are currently available for classic heroes (each item is a separate plugin). Some are definitely worthwhile and will be useful, while others are more for general review (I don't even like them myself). You can pick the ones you like - put them in one folder and they will work as a single plugin, and simply omit the rest. Therefore, you will filter out what you need and what you don't yourself. If anything interests you, I will post the plugins individually or I can make a build so that they can be connected as one plugin. Some plugins are customizable - I can configure them for specific tasks.
Plugin List:
Specializations:
1) Logistics depends on level and is nerfed to 2% (can be applied for mirror matches, for example)
2) Moon's Fire Wall is nerfed to x1.5 (instead of x2)
3) Fixed bonus of 5% for logistics, attack, and defense specialists. The bonus does not depend on the hero's level
4) Armor and weapons are nerfed to 2% and depend on level
Skills:
1) Mysticism (+4/+8/+12 mana units per day)
2) Mysticism restores 5% / 10% / 15% of the maximum number of spell points per day. But, at least, skill_level + 1 (as with mysticism by default).
3) Estate (+250/+500/+1000 gold units per day)
4) Estate brings (50/100/150)
5) Eagle Eye learns spells from the enemy hero's book as soon as they take a turn in battle. The probability of learning a spell is (30/35/40 + bonuses for artifacts and specialization)%
6) Diplomacy only recruits creatures for payment (no free recruitment)
7) Button to renounce skills at the witch's hut
8) Button to renounce skills with the scholar (he disappears regardless of the answer)
9) Learning is buffed - 5/10/15% is added for each level gained, and the gap from other heroes constantly grows
Artifacts:
1) Artifact Cloak of the Undead King: no or basic Necromancy - generates Skeletons; advanced or expert Necromancy - generates Living Dead.
Heroes:
1) All heroes start with three stacks of creatures and always have the second level of creatures built in the city (less randomness at the start and better breakthrough power for strong blocks, speeding up the game)
2) Ability to ban and unban any heroes in the game (for the tavern and prisons). Works great for regular templates (there is a bug on mirror maps where banned heroes appear in prison during generation)
Spells:
1) Changes the duration and effect of the "Disguise" spell.
Using a dialog, any player can choose how strong their hero's army using the "Disguise" spell will look when viewed by other players via right-click. At the same time, information about the number of units in the hero's army will be distorted: understated or overstated.
The following options are available:
At basic and advanced levels of Air Magic - 66%, 150% (of the number of troops in each unit).
At advanced - 50%, 66%, 150%, 200%.
At expert - 25%, 33%, 50%, 66%, 150%, 200%, 300%, 500%.
Spell duration - 2 player turns.
2) Changes the duration and effect of the Disguise spell. Additionally, it allows the same Vision spell at expert level to discover the true size of the army even if Disguise was applied. The Vision spell becomes a Water School spell; coefficients for calculating the distance at which the spell acts have been changed from 1/2/3 to 2/2/2.
The algorithm for changing the hero's disguise field differs from that used in the NewDisguise plugin, possibly towards greater reliability.
3) Changes the duration of the Blindness spell depending on the level of Fire Magic - 1/3/5 rounds depending on the skill level. Spell power does not affect the duration of the spell.
Additionally, the AI's "value" calculation procedure for the spell has been changed to account for these modifications.
4) The Joy spell at any level now affects all friendly units immediately. At the same time, morale increases by 1, and (if final morale is positive) the probability of triggering fighting spirit is further increased - by 50/50/75/100% of the bonus associated with morale, depending on the Water Magic level. For example, with an initial morale of 3, after applying an expert-level Joy spell, the probability of triggering fighting spirit will be 25% instead of 12.5%.
Furthermore, the secondary skill Leadership now also additionally increases the probability of triggering fighting spirit - by 10/20/30% of the bonus associated with morale, in addition to increasing morale. For example, with a morale of 3 and this skill at expert level, the probability of triggering fighting spirit will be 16.25% instead of 12.5%.
5) Changes spell duration according to the following formula: Duration = 1 + (2 * Magic_Power + Knowledge) / n
6) Town Portal - now a city can be chosen at any level of Earth magic. MP costs have significantly increased - 1200 MP for basic, 1000 MP for advanced, and 800 MP for expert.
7) Mines and quicksand now appear in greater quantities - not 4/6/8, but 6/8/10
8) Mana Vortex replenishes the mana pool and adds a random amount (from zero to full mana capacity); additionally, it can now only be built after a level 2 Mages' Guild.
Global:
1) All necromancy (artifacts, secondary skill, specialization, amplifier, grail) is nerfed by half in one go.
2) Improved protection of artifacts, scrolls, and Pandora's boxes from the possibility of theft without flight (theft with flight is still possible).
3) Opening the entire map for both players at the start of the game (suitable for testers or open play)
4) Prohibition of upgraded stacks appearing among neutrals (to prevent the bug involving reducing an upgraded stack)
5) Ability to change the value and frequency of appearance of scrolls, prisons, conservatories, hives, Dragon Utopia, cartographers, forts on the hill (editing generation and guards through them).
6) Ability to pay off neutral creatures during battle
7) Allows AI to save mana in battles with neutrals to be more combat-ready for encounters with humans and to fight strong neutrals more successfully.
Bugfixes:
1) BenBugFixes
- damage bug received from shooting towers when having the "Armor" secondary skill or cast "Air Shield" or for a petrified creature (RoseKavalier)
- bug where additional sea movement points are given to all players instead of the lighthouse owner (RoseKavalier)
- luck not triggering in battle for creatures without a hero
- game crash when AI attacks a hero without creatures (RoseKavalier)
- interface bugs for Fairy Dragons (RoseKavalier, igrik)
- bug related to Harpies attacking Dendroids (igrik)
- "Disguise" spell bug (the spell lasted for one game day instead of one cycle of player turns)
- bug obtaining an infinite number of movement points using the Admiral's Hat
- bug receiving Defense and Attack bonuses for Blood Obelisk and Signs of Fear (Fortress faction)
- same-unit destruction bug with "Earthquake" spell (RoseKavalier)
- bug where sea movement points are not recalculated into land points when a hero retreats in a sea battle
2) Fixes.dll
- small graphical and gameplay fixes:
- Fairy Dragon button coordinates
- button in the tavern dialog
- button in the unit splitting dialog
- "cancel" button removed from the arena
- centering of the image on right-click in town on the troop recruitment icon (previously shifted far left). Very noticeable when playing with HD mod at very high resolutions
- ability to enter the mages' guild without a book or money for a guest hero
- bugs with Armor secondary skill, monster petrification and air shield against shooting towers
- centering of the image on right-click in town on the icon
3) Castle_lighthouse - The Castle lighthouse now applies only to the owner of the castle
Below I provide a list of which plugins are currently available for classic heroes (each item is a separate plugin). Some are definitely worthwhile and will be useful, while others are more for general review (I don't even like them myself). You can pick the ones you like - put them in one folder and they will work as a single plugin, and simply omit the rest. Therefore, you will filter out what you need and what you don't yourself. If anything interests you, I will post the plugins individually or I can make a build so that they can be connected as one plugin. Some plugins are customizable - I can configure them for specific tasks.
Plugin List:
Specializations:
1) Logistics depends on level and is nerfed to 2% (can be applied for mirror matches, for example)
2) Moon's Fire Wall is nerfed to x1.5 (instead of x2)
3) Fixed bonus of 5% for logistics, attack, and defense specialists. The bonus does not depend on the hero's level
4) Armor and weapons are nerfed to 2% and depend on level
Skills:
1) Mysticism (+4/+8/+12 mana units per day)
2) Mysticism restores 5% / 10% / 15% of the maximum number of spell points per day. But, at least, skill_level + 1 (as with mysticism by default).
3) Estate (+250/+500/+1000 gold units per day)
4) Estate brings (50/100/150)
5) Eagle Eye learns spells from the enemy hero's book as soon as they take a turn in battle. The probability of learning a spell is (30/35/40 + bonuses for artifacts and specialization)%
6) Diplomacy only recruits creatures for payment (no free recruitment)
7) Button to renounce skills at the witch's hut
8) Button to renounce skills with the scholar (he disappears regardless of the answer)
9) Learning is buffed - 5/10/15% is added for each level gained, and the gap from other heroes constantly grows
Artifacts:
1) Artifact Cloak of the Undead King: no or basic Necromancy - generates Skeletons; advanced or expert Necromancy - generates Living Dead.
Heroes:
1) All heroes start with three stacks of creatures and always have the second level of creatures built in the city (less randomness at the start and better breakthrough power for strong blocks, speeding up the game)
2) Ability to ban and unban any heroes in the game (for the tavern and prisons). Works great for regular templates (there is a bug on mirror maps where banned heroes appear in prison during generation)
Spells:
1) Changes the duration and effect of the "Disguise" spell.
Using a dialog, any player can choose how strong their hero's army using the "Disguise" spell will look when viewed by other players via right-click. At the same time, information about the number of units in the hero's army will be distorted: understated or overstated.
The following options are available:
At basic and advanced levels of Air Magic - 66%, 150% (of the number of troops in each unit).
At advanced - 50%, 66%, 150%, 200%.
At expert - 25%, 33%, 50%, 66%, 150%, 200%, 300%, 500%.
Spell duration - 2 player turns.
2) Changes the duration and effect of the Disguise spell. Additionally, it allows the same Vision spell at expert level to discover the true size of the army even if Disguise was applied. The Vision spell becomes a Water School spell; coefficients for calculating the distance at which the spell acts have been changed from 1/2/3 to 2/2/2.
The algorithm for changing the hero's disguise field differs from that used in the NewDisguise plugin, possibly towards greater reliability.
3) Changes the duration of the Blindness spell depending on the level of Fire Magic - 1/3/5 rounds depending on the skill level. Spell power does not affect the duration of the spell.
Additionally, the AI's "value" calculation procedure for the spell has been changed to account for these modifications.
4) The Joy spell at any level now affects all friendly units immediately. At the same time, morale increases by 1, and (if final morale is positive) the probability of triggering fighting spirit is further increased - by 50/50/75/100% of the bonus associated with morale, depending on the Water Magic level. For example, with an initial morale of 3, after applying an expert-level Joy spell, the probability of triggering fighting spirit will be 25% instead of 12.5%.
Furthermore, the secondary skill Leadership now also additionally increases the probability of triggering fighting spirit - by 10/20/30% of the bonus associated with morale, in addition to increasing morale. For example, with a morale of 3 and this skill at expert level, the probability of triggering fighting spirit will be 16.25% instead of 12.5%.
5) Changes spell duration according to the following formula: Duration = 1 + (2 * Magic_Power + Knowledge) / n
6) Town Portal - now a city can be chosen at any level of Earth magic. MP costs have significantly increased - 1200 MP for basic, 1000 MP for advanced, and 800 MP for expert.
7) Mines and quicksand now appear in greater quantities - not 4/6/8, but 6/8/10
8) Mana Vortex replenishes the mana pool and adds a random amount (from zero to full mana capacity); additionally, it can now only be built after a level 2 Mages' Guild.
Global:
1) All necromancy (artifacts, secondary skill, specialization, amplifier, grail) is nerfed by half in one go.
2) Improved protection of artifacts, scrolls, and Pandora's boxes from the possibility of theft without flight (theft with flight is still possible).
3) Opening the entire map for both players at the start of the game (suitable for testers or open play)
4) Prohibition of upgraded stacks appearing among neutrals (to prevent the bug involving reducing an upgraded stack)
5) Ability to change the value and frequency of appearance of scrolls, prisons, conservatories, hives, Dragon Utopia, cartographers, forts on the hill (editing generation and guards through them).
6) Ability to pay off neutral creatures during battle
7) Allows AI to save mana in battles with neutrals to be more combat-ready for encounters with humans and to fight strong neutrals more successfully.
Bugfixes:
1) BenBugFixes
- damage bug received from shooting towers when having the "Armor" secondary skill or cast "Air Shield" or for a petrified creature (RoseKavalier)
- bug where additional sea movement points are given to all players instead of the lighthouse owner (RoseKavalier)
- luck not triggering in battle for creatures without a hero
- game crash when AI attacks a hero without creatures (RoseKavalier)
- interface bugs for Fairy Dragons (RoseKavalier, igrik)
- bug related to Harpies attacking Dendroids (igrik)
- "Disguise" spell bug (the spell lasted for one game day instead of one cycle of player turns)
- bug obtaining an infinite number of movement points using the Admiral's Hat
- bug receiving Defense and Attack bonuses for Blood Obelisk and Signs of Fear (Fortress faction)
- same-unit destruction bug with "Earthquake" spell (RoseKavalier)
- bug where sea movement points are not recalculated into land points when a hero retreats in a sea battle
2) Fixes.dll
- small graphical and gameplay fixes:
- Fairy Dragon button coordinates
- button in the tavern dialog
- button in the unit splitting dialog
- "cancel" button removed from the arena
- centering of the image on right-click in town on the troop recruitment icon (previously shifted far left). Very noticeable when playing with HD mod at very high resolutions
- ability to enter the mages' guild without a book or money for a guest hero
- bugs with Armor secondary skill, monster petrification and air shield against shooting towers
- centering of the image on right-click in town on the icon
3) Castle_lighthouse - The Castle lighthouse now applies only to the owner of the castle
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The nerf to the logic bonus for offense and defense is too strong. You are simply killing the specialization at its root. Because at level 20 with a 10+ boost, there will be 240 moves. 240 is just nothing. Diplomacy is still as strong in rules mode, while under anarchy rules it's actually great to get lucky and join, so I believe it shouldn't be touched. The same goes for offense and defense. IF YOU MUST NERF, THEN TO 3.5%-4% MAXIMUM
Categorically against starting with 3 stacks; too strong an up for the dungeon
Property up to 1000 is cool, I think it should be up to 750, but overall I agree;
Mysticism should be done in percentages, otherwise an already strong tant will be able to spin even harder;
Eagle Eye was a piece of sh*t and will remain so;
Nerfing the portal simplifies the game, making it more linear, so I am against it;
Increasing spell duration is generally a nice bonus, I agree;
Morale and fields remain just as unplayable;
<<improved protection of artifacts and scrolls from the possibility of theft without flight>> - a debatable point; seemingly everyone plays by the rules, but this will spoil gameplay under anarchy rules, and if this fix prevents stealing resources, then I believe it is bad
I don't like the AI improvement; they will ruin the tempo, though there are still few situations where this mana will decide the outcome
AND MOST IMPORTANTLY: Leave some part of soda, even a tiny bit, and cut Necromancer by 33% instead of 50%
As for what I didn't mention, I basically agree; halfway through the review I stopped mentioning everything I agreed with
P.S. dendoids and harpies are not a bug, but a feature; don't fix this
P.P.S. Sorry for the caps, it's to highlight certain ideas
Categorically against starting with 3 stacks; too strong an up for the dungeon
Property up to 1000 is cool, I think it should be up to 750, but overall I agree;
Mysticism should be done in percentages, otherwise an already strong tant will be able to spin even harder;
Eagle Eye was a piece of sh*t and will remain so;
Nerfing the portal simplifies the game, making it more linear, so I am against it;
Increasing spell duration is generally a nice bonus, I agree;
Morale and fields remain just as unplayable;
<<improved protection of artifacts and scrolls from the possibility of theft without flight>> - a debatable point; seemingly everyone plays by the rules, but this will spoil gameplay under anarchy rules, and if this fix prevents stealing resources, then I believe it is bad
I don't like the AI improvement; they will ruin the tempo, though there are still few situations where this mana will decide the outcome
AND MOST IMPORTANTLY: Leave some part of soda, even a tiny bit, and cut Necromancer by 33% instead of 50%
As for what I didn't mention, I basically agree; halfway through the review I stopped mentioning everything I agreed with
P.S. dendoids and harpies are not a bug, but a feature; don't fix this
P.P.S. Sorry for the caps, it's to highlight certain ideas
Armageddets
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As I said, most plugins are more for familiarity; among the plugins that are worth paying attention to:
- nerfing Necromancer
- nerfing Moon
- nerfing logisticians on mirrors
- ability to ban heroes
- ability to refuse skills at huts and scholars
- fixes for some bugs (not all)
- management of frequencies and object values (suitable for some game formats and template developers - for linking with a plugin)
Everything else is too controversial for the community.
Regarding starting with three stacks. What nerf to Dungeon are we talking about? I mean, when Dungeon has 3 stacks and Tower currently gets 1—is that normal in your opinion? Wouldn't it be better if starts were more equal? And is it really bad to speed up development and shorten game time? Some won same not like it, but the pros are obvious.
Eagle Eye will at least become useful sometimes, which is already good. Currently, it isn't taken at all in online play.
Regarding the Portal nerf—I am more against it, probably. It seems everything works fine as is. Better to fight the main problems for now.
Regarding increasing spell duration. On the contrary, I don't agree that this is good. The current dependence on Spell Power is perfectly satisfactory.
Regarding Joy, Min, and Sands—they will simply become more profitable spells if anything. No one tried to make them imba. Why create a new imba?
Regarding stealing objects—everything is stolen fine with Flight. Plus, under Anarchy you can play the old-fashioned way completely.
About bugs/non-bugs. The developers considered these bugs and fixed them. Whether to use them or not is for each person to decide. Some plugins will be suitable for online, while some may be applied offline or simply not used anywhere.
Regarding whether it should be done or not. Some plugins are 2-3 years old. The question of whether they should exist isn't even an issue—they just do. Those who need them will take them; those who don't will ignore them. We can only discuss plugins made to order. But regarding Moon and Necromancer, this issue was discussed with some "fathers".
Plugins are provided separately, and you can simply put together a normal build from them (without taking anything unnecessary)—combine them and connect them as one plugin. This is done elementary (I'll tell those who need to know).
- nerfing Necromancer
- nerfing Moon
- nerfing logisticians on mirrors
- ability to ban heroes
- ability to refuse skills at huts and scholars
- fixes for some bugs (not all)
- management of frequencies and object values (suitable for some game formats and template developers - for linking with a plugin)
Everything else is too controversial for the community.
Regarding starting with three stacks. What nerf to Dungeon are we talking about? I mean, when Dungeon has 3 stacks and Tower currently gets 1—is that normal in your opinion? Wouldn't it be better if starts were more equal? And is it really bad to speed up development and shorten game time? Some won same not like it, but the pros are obvious.
Eagle Eye will at least become useful sometimes, which is already good. Currently, it isn't taken at all in online play.
Regarding the Portal nerf—I am more against it, probably. It seems everything works fine as is. Better to fight the main problems for now.
Regarding increasing spell duration. On the contrary, I don't agree that this is good. The current dependence on Spell Power is perfectly satisfactory.
Regarding Joy, Min, and Sands—they will simply become more profitable spells if anything. No one tried to make them imba. Why create a new imba?
Regarding stealing objects—everything is stolen fine with Flight. Plus, under Anarchy you can play the old-fashioned way completely.
About bugs/non-bugs. The developers considered these bugs and fixed them. Whether to use them or not is for each person to decide. Some plugins will be suitable for online, while some may be applied offline or simply not used anywhere.
Regarding whether it should be done or not. Some plugins are 2-3 years old. The question of whether they should exist isn't even an issue—they just do. Those who need them will take them; those who don't will ignore them. We can only discuss plugins made to order. But regarding Moon and Necromancer, this issue was discussed with some "fathers".
Plugins are provided separately, and you can simply put together a normal build from them (without taking anything unnecessary)—combine them and connect them as one plugin. This is done elementary (I'll tell those who need to know).
HellLighT
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Too much text, and I don't want to play according to someone else's rules again. How about a plugin that disables Necropolis heroes from entering non-Necropolis castles... (and, of course, prevents them from spawning from dungeons)? That would be enough for me to enjoy playing on HotA.
Armageddets
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Too much text, and I don't want to play according to someone else's rules again. How about a plugin that disables Necromancer heroes from entering castles that are not Necromancer castles... (and, of course, prevents them from appearing in prisons)? That would be enough for me to play on HL+U.
There is a plugin that allows you to ban any heroes. But unfortunately, it works perfectly only for standard templates. There are some shortcomings in mirrored maps.
Here is a plugin that blocks all Necromancer heroes in taverns and prisons. But only on standard templates and for all castles - including the Necromancer castle. On mirrored maps, someone might still be able to get into the prison.
Starting with Necromancer heroes is possible, but they won't be in the tavern or prison. Playing as Necromancers ultimately results in playing with only one Necromancer hero.
Download the plugin: https://ru.files.fm/u/68bymk85
But we also have a plugin that reduces the Necromancy skill, specialization, Grail, Necromancer artifacts, and Necromancy amplifier by half
HellLighT
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I don't see any point in having heroes with reduced stats, essentially making them "disabled." Perhaps it would be better to remove all three artifacts related to necromancy as well.
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