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The map "Jedi Counterattack" 绝地反击（大众版）is a popular version, or the second version of the map "Iron Man Edition" 绝地反击（铁人版).
Heroes! I found a map on a Chinese forum; I couldn't find an English version, but Google Translate renders it as "Jedi Counterattack" or something similar.
This is definitely not a typical Jedi story! The map is not easy, in my opinion, and has a distinctly Chinese style. I'm attaching it and suggesting you try playing it.
I found a walkthrough on Chinese YouTube by a player who, as far as I can tell, plays it effortlessly, as if it's all easy, but in reality, it's clear that he chose a polished starting save, and it's so perfect that you can only understand this by starting to play the map.
I tried to play it, but I got stuck due to a delay in the walkthrough; I left the starting location too late. I'll probably replay it.
A feature of the map is that you start as a hero and choose one of the following: Orrin, Crag, Tazyk, or Malekith. I don't know who you will choose; I chose Tazyk (the Chinese player chose Crag). In my opinion, the map is designed for a quick playthrough, following a clearly written script.
If anyone wants some Chinese hardcore gameplay, here's the map – play at your own risk :)
I plan to play this map, but when I have time, later.
As far as I know, there is only one strategy for killing the final boss, and everyone uses it – mass berserk... I used the same strategy to kill one of the previous Necropolis bosses... And this isn't the most difficult battle on this map, in my opinion...
I was able to defeat Finneas today and completed the Walkthrough. I also used berserk, because with the current ratio of our and the enemy's troops, it is the only real option. I will now try to replay the beginning, as I didn't catch some of the nuances: I want to understand whether I was just very lucky, or what happened was quite natural. I will report the details later. Then I will also post a review of the map as a whole. And which battle do you consider the most difficult? The one with Mutare Drake or with Sandro?
I want to ask everyone: who has played the map "The Uprising"? I have been looking at it for a long time, and I might start playing it. There are some non-obvious choices to be made even before the start: which of the 4 sides is best to fight for, and which races should be assigned to the 4 AI opponents? I will most likely play as the Castle; I don't like the Green (Stronghold/Fortress) because of the 3 floors of the Guild of Mages. I have a good English-language review of the map from one player on Maps4Heroes and a video Walkthrough from Belkin, so I am already familiar with some information about the map and, if necessary, I have something to refer to.
(Map "Wayfarer") Which battle do you consider the most difficult? Against Mutare Drake or against Sandro?
The battle against Sandro on the Wayfarer map is the EASIEST of all! All you need to do is disable the hero's tactics and give him 2 strong ranged units with phoenixes, and place 2 ranged units at the bottom. Then Sandro, with his tactics, will gather ALL his forces at the bottom near our ranged units. Since we have Phoenixes, we do a mass berserk. This is the EASIEST battle of all on the map; I didn't find this strategy anywhere, I just figured it out during my first playthrough. A truly difficult battle, in my opinion, is at the very beginning against Nella and her titans; I had to replay it many times to minimize losses. The best way was to kill her in the field. There was also a tough battle against one of the Necromancers (the one with many skeletons and vampires), because there was a lot of randomness, and it was also difficult to get the right outcome in the battle against a hero with dragons on the fire land; I needed the fairy units not to cast any deadly 4th-level spells on our azure units, and then not to misclick. The difficulty of battles is a relative concept on this map, because I last played the map in speed-run mode, with a result of 6-1-7, so I had much smaller forces for almost the entire map than if I were playing at a leisurely pace. Only at the end, by gaining armies through quests and events, does the situation even out. I didn't have any problems with Mutare; I defeated her with force field, archdevils + titans + cyclops, and there were no problems. Marmot
"The Uprising"? I've been looking at it for a while, maybe I'll start it. There are some non-obvious choices to be made even before the start: which of the 4 sides is best to fight for, and which races should be assigned to the 4 AI opponents?
In my playthrough, as far as I remember, I chose the Castle with the hero Shana-shana. The Castle is convenient due to its location, development logic, and its resource (it's richer, in my opinion). Therefore, I chose the human race. For the enemy heroes, I didn't assign any specific races; I didn't pay attention to it at the time. You definitely need to assign the Castle with archangels, because there are a couple of external dwellings on the map for resource generation! This is definitely the way to go. For those who don't get the Castle, assign either titans or whatever is left (a dungeon for generating archangels through a dwelling, or bears - in general, those who will be in the main army, especially in the final battle). In my opinion, it's definitely archangels + titans. I would assign these 2 Castles to random enemies. There are many Castles with archangels + external dwellings on the map, so the choice is obvious. It's better, though, to accurately count which castles the opponents have, and which are assigned randomly, and which are not. And calculate which resource generation gives us the most. I don't remember any particular difficulties in the playthrough; I recommend looking at the requirements for the guard posts in the editor, as sometimes you need to replay from days to weeks (depending on what you need to bring there). Also, as far as I remember, it's VERY important to get the captain's hat as quickly as possible, because the map is maritime, and fast embarkation/disembarkation is important, so you don't have to wait a day for loading/unloading from the ship. The map is good. One downside is that one of the artifacts at the end is very well hidden. There is a hint about it in the event texts, but they are usually not read by anyone. And you can only find the right artifact by triggering an event in a specific location. So, if you get stuck at the end, you need to look at the map editor - where this event with the artifact is located (as far as I remember, it's one of the magic books). And the last battle on the map is the most difficult :) I took a hero from the prison, because with other heroes, the final boss in the corner of the map could not be defeated.
Marmot
8 years ago
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Thanks for the reply, I'll keep that in mind! Yes, the author provides a lot of tips in the text, and there's also a file with detailed author's instructions. And the plot there, with its backstory, is long and quite unique (a Chinese legend). And in which video exactly do people complete the battle with Finneas in "Wayfarer"? Can you provide a link? I already watched Belkin's video after my victory, to see how he did it. Yesterday, I tried to repeat my successful battle: yes, I managed to do it again, and the situation turned out to be the same, with minor differences. And yet, I still don't understand why the enemy did what he did (it's quite unexpected, and that's what helped me defeat him). Maybe I should record a video, just in case I discovered something new in this particular battle? Although, it's possible that it's due to the specific number of my troops, and it wouldn't have worked out the same way at a different time. I needed to eliminate the fabled and spectral creatures (which turned out to be crystal golems in the replay) in the first few rounds, and the berserker did the rest. And in the end, I just had to finish off the remaining azure creatures.kolotok
With Sandro on the Wayfarer map, the battle is the EASIEST OF ALL!
In the battle with Sandro, the main thing is not its difficulty. This battle serves to introduce Kilgor into the game, as only he can win it due to the "+2 to speed" specialization. This is the main "trick" of the battle.
Could you provide a link to the video where everyone fights Finneas in "Wayfarer"? I watched Belkin's video after my victory.
Here's Richard Chen's battle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lk_VfZ89xA&t=4s. His approach is more original and interesting than Belkin's, and I prefer it. The army composition and the randomness of the fear effect can be adjusted, but the principle is the same: gather all the enemy forces in one place and then unleash a mass berserk attack until only the Azure Dragons remain. I had a slightly different army composition and a different setup, as well as different fear randomness, but I used the same principle. The key is to set up a weak trap so that the Titans run down to attack someone else, creating a general melee. :) I HIGHLY RECOMMEND watching ALL the other tricks that Richard Chen suggested, which this player presented 4 years ago (!). There are several interesting battles in Wayfarer, purely in a Chinese style (shooting down all enemy projectiles, draining enemy mana, and summoning elementals when attacking the castle). Marmot
In the battle with Sandro, the main thing is not its difficulty. This battle serves to introduce Kilgore into the game, as only he can win it due to the "+2 speed" specialization. This is the main "trick" of the battle.
I don't quite understand. I didn't use Kilgore in any battles; I just freed him and sent him to complete the quest on the ship, as far as I remember. Kilgore wasn't needed anywhere else except for the quest, in no battle, and his speed didn't matter. Gem seems more useful. I saw in the editor that Kilgore can receive some kind of quest, but I didn't need it. Kilgore has purely combat stats; his magic is weak, and a developed Gem is much better! Ah... I remember now. Plus, I was focused on speed, so I didn't bother with secondary quests.
P.S. From Richard Chen's battle, it's clear that he completed this battle (i.e., finished the Wayfarer map) on day 6, 1, 3, which is 4 days earlier than me. You can make up those days at the beginning of the map, but I didn't bother, so I fell behind him by a couple of days
Marmot
8 years ago
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Here's a replay of Richard Chen's battle.
Thanks, I'll take a look!
The key here is to place a weak decoy so that the titans run down on foot to attack someone else, getting involved in the general melee.
Ah, so it wasn't just me! I don't understand why this happens, but their foolish march south is what allows you to win this battle.
I don't quite understand. I didn't use Kilgor in any of the battles.
If you don't use Kilgor in this battle, the enemy has more speed, and the Prayer from the Angel Alliance goes off before we can do anything. We need our speed to be higher, and for the Cursed Armor to cast its spells on his troops first, followed immediately by us casting Berserk.
Ah, so it wasn't just me! I don't understand why this happens, but their foolish march south is what allows you to win this battle.
The Titans are blocked by a weak stack, while another, stronger stack is placed within their range. The AI always tries to inflict maximum damage and therefore rushes into the fray under Berserk.
If this battle isn't fought with Kilgore, the enemy has higher speed, and the prayer from the Alliance of Angels will activate before we can do anything. We need our speed to be higher, and for the Cursed Armor to cast its spells on his troops first, followed immediately by us casting Berserk.
No, that's not right. We attack with Gem and phoenixes, with all speed amulets + cursed armor. In the first turns, we send a weak unit against the titans, and in the thick of it - archons, archdevils (2-3 stacks), etc. Since it's Gem, her stacks take the initial hits, and all of Finnis's forces are drawn into one pile. Kilgore might be needed there, but I managed without him.
Titans are blocked by a weak stack, while a stronger stack is placed within their attack range. The AI always tries to inflict maximum damage and therefore rushes into the thick of the battle under the Berserk effect.
Now I will illustrate this mechanic more vividly :)
That's correct! You can only add that this rule has a peculiarity that manifests itself in a battle with a Djinn (armor unit). Titans try to choose, of course, the larger stack to attack, BUT only because someone has already attacked it, and the titans will not receive a retaliatory strike. If it turns out that 5,000 of Finneas's titans can inflict damage, for example, on our 1,500 archons or 100 phoenixes, then they will attack the archons only if the retaliatory strike has already been removed from the archons. Otherwise, they will attack only a hundred phoenixes. Therefore, a Djinn is taken for this final battle with Finneas so that the stacks can endure, withstand the first attacks, and the enemy titans descend into a general melee. That is, the rule that the enemy attacks our larger stack applies with some exceptions, especially if we have an armor unit.
Marlo_Stanfield
8 years ago
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I agree, the clarification is important; the stacks for selection should be weak so that the AI doesn't get scared by a counterattack.
Marmot
8 years ago
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If you don't fight this battle with Kilgor, the enemy will have more speed, and the Alliance of Angels' prayer will activate sooner.
I wrote this about the battle with Sandro – Kilgor is essential for that one.
Now I'll illustrate this mechanic more vividly.
The video is great, :) even though it's not about the same thing. By the way, I've been meaning to thank you for the trick of destroying an unnecessary (spent) Archangel clone using the Wall of Fire: I used to do it with the Ring of Cold, but this is more efficient (6 mana instead of 9). It's a shame that the Wall only lasts for 2 rounds. And I didn't come up with the trick with the Ring myself; I read it somewhere before (in Richard Chen's video, he uses the Ring). It's easier during a siege because the used clone is killed in the moat without spending mana on a spell. By the way, the most impressive thing is the small army Chen uses to win this battle, and there's also a strong dependence on random factors (especially: who and how the fabled creatures will attack).
The video is great, :) even though it's not about the same thing.
The difference is in the details. In one, the arrows after the run hit the berserk, in the other, they ignore the fact that there is a wall of fire in front of them. But the goal is the same – to hit a stronger stack. Marmot
By the way, I've been wanting to thank you for the method of destroying an unnecessary (spent) clone of archangels using the Wall of Fire: before, I did this with the Ring of Cold, but this is more economical (6 mana instead of 9).
If the second clone of archons is morale-boosting, then you can remove two spent clones with one wall.
Added 1 hour 2 minutes ago Marmot
By the way, the most impressive thing is the small army that Chen wins this battle with, and there is also a strong dependence on random factors (especially: who and how the fairy creatures will attack).
The fairy creatures play the role of extras (as does the entire army, in principle). All that is required of them is not to resist blindness. A more important useful randomness is the fear on the enemy titans in the 1st round. Although, if there had not been fear on the archdevil under Chen's control in the 1st round, then the titans could have been immediately herded together.
Added 13 hours 5 minutes ago solmir2003
Good afternoon. I was suddenly struck by a scenario from, attention, a standard(!) set of maps. It's called "Just A Visit".
How I found it – I accidentally saw mentions of difficulties on another forum, thought it couldn't be true, tried it – it's really tough.
I go through author's maps, like the Paragon discussed above, quickly, but here there isn't even a plan for the game if you don't generate a special layout with "needed" lairs and artifacts.
In total. M – size. Few or medium resources. 4 players. 3 have 2 castles each, earth, stone, snow, or grass of your choice. One – on dirt, and this is always a computer with three castles. In each castle of this computer, every week, +5 / 3 / 1 creatures of level 5-6-7 are generated.
If you play according to hw-rules at 200%, it turns out that you clear the respawn point in a week (if you calculate the battles correctly). You go to the neighbors with level 5-6, there is simply no more experience. You take the castles of two other computers with losses (there is no resurrection). Then the red computer comes with legions of creatures, and that's it...
You can probably generate a map so that there is a Town Portal and flight, and run away from the computer, pumping up a hero (but on what?), then use blindness or hit-and-run to reduce the army. But these spells are forbidden, and it is not a fact that they will be in the guilds at all.
There are no dungeons to rely on artifacts.
Starting with Necropolis is not an option – you won't have time to create skeletons (the map is small).
It seems worse than starting with skeletons, but maybe I'm wrong.
Diplomacy... I haven't tried.
Has anyone played? Maybe you can share a plan for the game? I'm looking at it purely as a chess puzzle. Under what conditions is the map almost guaranteed to be passed?
For example (I haven't checked, just thoughts) 1) If all the cities are of the same type, then the map is easy to pass. 2) If there is resurrection and Town Portal in the guild in the starting city, then the map is easy to pass. 3) If you start, say, with Tower, and the computer has a swamp, then it's also easy. and so on
What do you think?
I read the topic first, and this post interested me. I looked at the map, and it really seems to be the trickiest of all the standard maps:
The red computer has three castles at the start, and one of them has a capitol right away. With the exception of this, the construction is standard, but (!) at the same time, every week, troops of levels 1, 5, 6, and 7 are added to all the castles. That is, this computer needs to be killed very quickly, otherwise it will quickly gather good forces.
I started as orange. Dungeon, Shakti, 200% without resources and money. I gathered wood, on the second day I went to the shipyard and broke through ten manticores (minus half of the troglodytes), put them on a boat, landed at the central castle of the red (it generated a stronghold), captured it and broke through the local hero (almost without a fight), and then developed it based on this stronghold. The computer managed to put rogues in all the castles, so by the second week, it had a good number of them. I put a bear using the external market and, in a chain, captured the upper, and then the lower castle of the red. In the process, I had to smoke out one guy from the castle, as I couldn't break through him when he was on defense :D
Then followed a quick breakthrough of the two remaining flags, victory on 1.4.7. It's a fun map, you can spend two hours enjoying it.
Added 29 minutes ago Although, I see that starting as purple would be more convenient.
Marmot
8 years ago
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I remember. I didn't write anything that time, but actually, a long time ago, when I was still a newbie, I started working on this map and couldn't complete it because of the imbalance of power that was built into it. Much later, I started again to see what would happen the second time around. The cities are also randomly generated there. I won't try to guess what the developers had in mind. I got to the point where Red sailed south to raid others, captured 2 of his cities, and then put the map aside because it was relatively uninteresting. Besides, Necromancers live in the south, and the veil of darkness hides almost half the map, and it was very important for me to see in time where and what Red was doing, so that in case of danger, I could make a run for it.
I also recently reviewed the entire thread, as well as "The Most Difficult Maps for You," and wrote down all the links to the published reviews, both mine and others, so that I could find them immediately if necessary.
I reached a point where Red sailed south to raid others, I captured 2 of his cities, and then I put this map aside because it became relatively uninteresting.
Yes, on this map, the only interesting thing is to eliminate Red. To prevent this process from turning into a slow and masochistic one, you need to take his central castle on days 3-4. This can be done by Galtran, Shakti, or Luna, as the shipyard is guarded by random monsters of level 6 in two flag positions and random monsters of level 5 in one flag position. By the end of the second week, you can already finish off Red.
Added 1 hour 52 minutes ago Could you compile a list of map names with links to well-written reviews or extensive comments, so that there is a clear understanding of what is being discussed here? Because the topic has become very extensive.
Marmot
8 years ago
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Yes, I agree, I was already thinking about that. Maybe it would be better to create a separate thread called "List of map reviews"? By the way, I'm ready to post 2 new reviews, and I won't edit them anymore.
Which map will you play next, or are you already playing one?
