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Posts from Open alpha testing of the 5.0 HD mod (online lobby).

Online Tournaments
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In reply to FireToSky
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Offline Wicc
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#91
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FireToSky
Well, this is just complete bull... Why should we all actively be guided by your personal imho?
You don't have to be guided. Whoever wants an XL+U tournament—just go ahead and make an XL+U tournament.

Running a tournament requires a certain amount of effort, which must be compensated for by something. For me, it is compensated by the opportunity to watch games that interest me. I can't force myself to watch XL+U. I've tried many times; it makes me sleepy. Therefore, personally, I am not going to run an XL+U tournament, although out of respect for public opinion, I include these templates in my tournament pools.

I also suggest dropping by the HotA server some evening and seeing what the masses are playing there. In recent days, 500-700 people have been gathering there, with 200+ games going on simultaneously. Those guys play more games in a week than in all HotA tournaments over 3 years combined. And in most cases, these are various Ls and Ms, often with shortened control. That is the real social demand, not what individual activists are trying to pass off as such.
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Offline KobRa_RR
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#92
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Wicc

Mirrors exist (it's even strange that they aren't in SoD).

This phrase caught my attention, as any example, even the most absurd, is valuable. I'll say it again, at that time I was planning to hold a tournament... BUT I was talked out of it, both by us and by you.


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In reply to KobRa_RR
Offline Grando
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#93
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KobRa_RR
I laughed at the "mirrors" comment! Vic is truly a master troll!
(For those with short memories, like our deity, let me remind you that Vic "begged" not to hold a similar Tournaments event on SoD, so as not to interfere with the Tournaments event on HoMM.)

Well, you yourselves are to blame for playing (or not playing :D) these subpar Tournaments created by Vic. If you know what a Tournaments should be like, then you are obligated to create it. How many times does Vic need to fail before you believe that his abilities only work up to a certain level?
And if anyone hasn't understood yet, I'll write down the formula, which I already mentioned in a private message.

The creators of Heroes of Might and Magic had a relatively good grasp of mathematics, but they lacked the taste to make it beautiful (and the stability for the long term, but that's a different story).
The creators of Might and Magic, on the other hand, had a relatively good grasp of taste, but a poor understanding of mathematics. Hence, the obvious Jeremy, who has been running around with his gun for several years, even though everyone is tired of seeing him. Hence, the blitz timers and diamonds.

Understand that Vic's strength is something like Game of Thrones: epic, very beautiful, and not very understandable, and there is even no hope that he himself fully understands what he is doing, even if he is doing it well. For example, here he says that Game of Thrones is an analogue of Favorites. :smile35:
And what are "Mirrors," what is the point of them? Don't even hope for it. You will have to do everything yourself.
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Offline KobRa_RR
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#94
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Wicc


I also recommend checking out a Hota server one evening to see what the masses are playing. In recent days, 500-700 people gather there, and there are 200+ games running simultaneously. These guys play more games in a week than in all Hota tournaments over 3 years. And in most cases, these are various L and M maps, often with shortened time limits. This is a real social demand, not what some activists are trying to portray.

I would like to see broadcasts or at least reports about the games of these "masses."


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In reply to Dirty_Player
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Offline Wicc
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#95
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Dirty_Player
By the way, I've been saying for a long time that a unique playable template for HotA, exceeding XL in size, would be interesting. (H or G - I don't remember exactly) ... Of course, the demand needs to be studied, but I doubt I would play it :D, although it would be interesting to see what kind of template it would be.
Yes, such a template might be possible. The scheme will be similar to Jebus, but with additional zones. Because XL gameplay on such a size would result in an unacceptable drag, while Jebus gameplay might fit the game duration into a reasonable range.
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Offline Dirty_Player
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#96
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Wicc
I also recommend checking out a Hota server sometime in the evening and seeing what the masses are playing.
Maybe you should also check out GR? There are games in the format: S, 1 min, go go go.
If you haven't noticed, we already went through this a few years ago in m200 format tournaments. They didn't work for our niche audience. :smile32:

Added after 57 seconds
Wicc
Yes, such a template might be possible. The scheme will be similar to Jebus, but with additional zones. Because HL gameplay on such a size will result in an unacceptable drag, while Jebus gameplay might fit the game duration into a reasonable range.
The 8th scheme of anarchy is asking for it :D
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Offline Wicc
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#97
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Dirty_Player
Maybe he should also check out GR? There, the games are in the format: S, 1 min, go go go.
If you haven't noticed, we already went through this a few years ago in m200 format tournaments. It didn't work out for our niche audience. :smile32:
Yes, that's exactly why the Heroes community is so small and fragmented, with a significant gap between the tastes of the elite and the broader masses.

Without bridging this gap, Heroes will remain in its current state. Therefore, it's better to try to overcome this gap somehow. This is a complex but important, and therefore interesting, task.

Personally, it's clear to me that it cannot be overcome unilaterally; there needs to be movement from both sides towards each other – both to instill a taste for good gameplay in the broader masses and for the "elite" not to get too carried away with "elite formats" that last for two days of real time. This is also in the interests of club tournaments – currently, only giants like CIS can organize tournaments that last for a week of real time.
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Offline Wicc
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#98
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Dirty_Player
The idea with diplomacy was very good, but if it had been presented in the format of Adela-Ryland-Kira, it would have been better.
No, the format of "diplomat against non-diplomat" was exactly what was needed. To see how overpowered diplomacy is in the proposed version.

Perhaps it would have made sense to add a couple more pairs like Valeska-Adela and Solmyr-Saira, just for variety. It wasn't worth moving away from playing with identical Castles, because it would have sharply increased the measurement error, at least due to the impossibility of playing mirror-image templates.
Paradoxically, people are really asking for standard Tournaments. They are even rebelling, saying that OFB is following such rules. I also don't understand why :smile32: Standard rules and templates with the original tournament format are what people like.
Yes, this thought comes to me from time to time. But under the pressure of the desire to experiment, it doesn't always stay there for long :rolleyes:.
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Offline Docent Picolan
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#99
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Dirty_Player
By the way, I've been saying for a long time that a unique playable template format for Hota would be interesting, exceeding the XL size.
Perhaps, something like that will appear in 1.5.0. It's not a given that the first attempt will result in something perfectly suitable for competitive online play, but over time, we can try to find a use for the H size. And I'll remind you that in 1.5, the Hota template editor will become available to everyone. Those interested in the topic will be able to experiment and do it themselves.
The creators of Hota have the opposite approach.
Don't equate Vik's activity on HW with the team's position on online development. Vik's tournaments are his personal initiative and his understanding of things. The other active members of the team are currently acting more as observers.
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Offline Grando
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#100
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There's no need to oversimplify it to just Wick. I don't want to create the impression that I'm somehow against him. That's not the case at all. We're not just talking about tournaments. Let's point out some of the most surprising things. Jeremy is the king of online play, and he's also the author of that recent Game of Thrones game – I've already mentioned it – is Wick solely responsible for the fact that nothing has been done with it for years? Did Wick personally design the control schemes for scrolls, for example, while Hota-Kru simply observed? Of course, this has become quite an off-topic discussion, but since we're already on this topic, it's interesting to find out.
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Offline Wicc
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#101
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Al Feyn
Jeremy is the king of online games, and also of that recent Game of Thrones game – I’ve already mentioned it – is Vicc the sole author of everything that hasn’t been changed for years?
Does Vicc personally assign values to control scrolls, for example, while Hota-Kru simply observes?
Vicc is the author of suggestions for changing the gameplay, but not the one responsible for the deadlines for their implementation. Jeremy realized that something needed to be done about him about 2 years ago, and the specific implementation of this was done about a year ago. It’s just that no updates from Hota have been released since then.

The situation with the scrolls is similar – in the 1.5 test version, their values have been corrected, but when this version will reach the release phase – I don’t know.
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Offline Docent Picolan
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#102
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since we're already on this topic, it would be interesting to find out
Any changes to the gameplay, even minor ones, are discussed and approved at the team level. Vik's suggestions are no exception and are considered on an equal basis.
But in the previous message, I clarified that I was talking about the activity of organizing tournaments on HW. These are often not discussed at all within the team (and there is no need, most of Vik's tournaments range from decent to good). Nevertheless, there is a reason to separate the personal initiatives from the initiatives of the "creators of Hoty."
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In reply to Docent Picolan
Offline Xocenk
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#103
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Why couldn't the fix for the overpowered Jeremy be released in some minor patch?
ICQ - 703804372
Discord - Xocenk#2473
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Offline Docent Picolan
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#104
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Right after the release of 1.4.2, it would have been possible, but there was no certainty at that time. Now, the content of 1.5 is closely interconnected, and it is impossible to release a separate piece. Besides, minor patches are not a format that we are used to.
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