Posts from Stronghold vs. Haven

I'm looking for the optimal build for an Orcish Mage, knowing that I'll be facing a Haven mage. I can't seem to find the perfect skill point distribution – I'm constantly wanting to change something. But there are some things that are stable for me right now, and I'll describe them.

I believe that it's more advantageous to play defensively than offensively. In this case, you can meet the opponent and be the first to attack a specific unit stack. Plus, goblins and cyclops will shoot at full strength. Therefore, the question arises: can you force Haven to attack, or will you have to do it yourself? I believe you can. Yes, Haven has the most powerful support abilities, but when it comes to ranged combat units, they are clearly inferior to Orcs. The Orcs have: 3 ranged units, one very powerful mage, and furies that also attack from a distance. Plus, you can attack with panthers on one turn and retreat on the next (you can protect them with earth elementals and their ability to inflict Slow).

Another factor in favor of a defensive tactic is the racial ability, Earth Idol, which increases both physical and magical defense of nearby units until the end of the battle.

Based on this, I go for a defensive build. If I can engage in an exchange of blows without moving away from the idol, the Haven army will gradually become smaller than the Orcish army, even despite their superior healing.

1. I always take Earth Magic level 3. Because for Orcs, this determines the strength of Path Skills + Restoration - the most powerful spell in the game, in my opinion.

2. Restoration. Because it restores a lot of health and because of Earth Magic level 3.

3. Dispel. Without this skill, the entire defensive strategy for Orcs would be a complete failure. As soon as the opponent casts two or more general spells, you can safely remove them from several units. It is especially important to remove general Restoration and Stone Skin from the opponent.

4. General Healing. Otherwise, it is simply impossible to outlast Haven.

5. Earth Elemental. Its Slow ability will allow panthers to make raids without the risk of being blinded and then taken down by the entire group.

6. Ambush. It is important to be able to cast first at the beginning of the turn, since after applying the racial ability, many other units will be able to move and attack the reinforced units.

7. Tactics 2. Otherwise, they simply won't gather near the Earth Idol, the furies and panthers won't be able to reach, and the centaurs will be blocked by someone later.

8. Guardian 2, Retaliation 2, Defense, Endurance 1. Since we are playing defensively, it would be a sin not to take them.

I'm not sure about the remaining skill points; I need to think more and experiment with a "strong" build.

If anyone has any thoughts, please share them.

The idea is as follows:
The only hope for the Orcs is a blitzkrieg in 2-3 turns.
For example, subdue and intimidate the light factions in the early turns (if playing as a Mage) and push...push...trample them all.)))) Of course, occupy the corpses to prevent resurrection (like in the good old days).
Then, there will be a small chance against a strong player, and if they make a couple of mistakes, you might win.))))


Playing defensively with Orcs against Humans and Mages might be good, but unfortunately, time works against the Orcs.

Playing defensively with Orcs against Human Mages might be a good strategy, but unfortunately, time is not on the Orcs' side.

However, this is a big question. From a distance, the Orcs will have 5 units and panthers working – periodically, that's 5.5 units. And the Alliance, considering healing and resurrection, will have archers, radiance, avengers, archangels, and griffons at half strength – that's 4.5. At the same time, it should be taken into account that archers and avengers will quickly be eliminated. And it's unlikely that they will be able to reach the Orcish archers – except with radiance spells to reach the fury units. But at the same time, they can be protected by earth elementals, which also have the Petrify ability. And Restoration works twice as effectively on centaurs. But it's difficult to hold back both avengers and archers – someone will scatter. If it's avengers, then you can safely run forward, and if it's archers, you can safely stay back.

I think the Orcs can outlast the Alliance.

Don't forget that, besides blinding, humans also have time stop and stone skin. In one turn, you can weaken up to 3 units (panthers, harpies, and centaurs). And only an orc mage can remove spells (and only once per game, with purification). Unfortunately, centaurs and archers won't carry you through the entire game. The main damage dealers are still mass killers – panthers and cyclops. Centaurs, harpies, and archers are support units. What's great about the orc mage is his magic. They are truly powerful. People often underestimate them and attack other units instead. I usually take 2 groups of mages, increase them with the blessing of the earth, then multiply one group with reinforcement 2, and with fury 4 (without a response) – few people like that))))

Added 7 minutes later
Or maybe we won't argue, and you'll be able to defeat a light human mage with an orc mage in a fair duel. That would be a truly heroic feat worthy of respect!

Maybe we shouldn't argue. And maybe you can defeat an Orcish Mage against a Human Light Mage in a fair duel...
That would be a truly heroic feat worthy of respect!

A fair duel isn't possible because the Haven faction has two stacks of Light. But if you put Griffons on the field, I'll beat you easily. :)

A fair fight is possible in a skirmish.

Okay, I found a trick that helps Orcish Warriors survive against Alliance Mages: stone walls! I used to think this was a useless spell and never took it. But now, I need something to deal with those damn radiant spells. On the first turn, they always blind my Cyclops and Dreamcatchers and deal insane damage. Now, I place walls, and the radiant spells can't hit on the first turn; losers! :) On the first turn, I place walls and calmly wait with all my stacks. Then, the Priests move, and they won't be able to heal on that turn anymore. Even if the Mage turns someone to stone, blinds them, or summons elementals, it doesn't matter. On this turn, we'll practically crush the Alliance without taking any damage. And by the next turn, we'll have enough points for the racial ability. And we can cast a spell (for example, Inner Flame on the Cyclops, after which they move before the radiant spells, or Reinforcements on the Panthers). This will give us a good chance on the second turn to destroy one stack and move on top of it: preferably either the radiant spells or the Priests.
If I were to describe the tactic briefly: overwhelm the stacks of Priests and radiant spells and move on top of them. After that, you can breathe a sigh of relief. The rest deal physical damage, which doesn't do much damage to the Warrior units because they have high defense, and the Alliance also has lower attack than the Orcish Mages. In short, in the future, with repeated attacks, the Alliance's troops gradually melt away – gradually, only due to resurrections. Therefore, the outcome of the battle depends mainly on one thing: whether it is possible to quickly destroy the radiant spells and Priests.
In principle, the Orcs have a good chance, no matter what anyone says.

I think I've gone a bit overboard with these walls. I should take Blizzard for the hero and cast it on the radiant spells – it slows them down, lasts for 2 turns, and also deals some damage. Although walls can be useful to block the enemy's undead stack and prevent it from being resurrected. If only these walls were a little stronger... But as it is, they are destroyed by a single hit. In short, it's better to cast Blizzard on the first turn.

Explain why? So they can't cast Resurrection?
And instead of Blizzard, have you tried Poison Cloud? Although that's only for a Mage.

Good job, you answered all the questions yourself. :)

Chingiz, how do you manage to have such large armies? What week was it, and what was the map size?

Good luck, Chingiz!

There's a player who can beat this map with the Stronghold faction in about 27 days. It's harder with the Orcs, of course. I don't even know how he managed to do it. Well done.

The Fortress faction is awesome ;)

Damn, everything is terrible! People, please tell me how to level up an Orc Warrior to be a good Warrior for the Haven faction. Those damn Sylvan with level 2 tactics are a problem! I just got completely beaten by someone named Baltazar twice in a row. What should I do? How do I level up?

What is a stronghold?

Unique building of the Stronghold faction. Grants movement points to heroes for defeating neutral or enemy armies.

Why not use Priestesses? They deal tremendous damage to a mage hero. And reflecting spells will also be useful.

On the first turn, freeze them with an Ice Golem and then shoot them down with archers (Shining Ones are weak in defense).

Against the AI, the Ice Golem works great. But if a player uses tactic 2 and places Shining Ones in the front and a Guardian behind, then there are more problems. The golem will slow them down for one turn, but the Shining Ones will still reach them and may even paralyze someone. But if the player doesn't use tactic 2, then yes, on the first turn – the golem, and on the second – either a General heroism spell or a General spell in fire magic, and it becomes difficult for the players from the very first turns.

Now I'm doing better against the Alliance. Just don't go to the Tears against them. I'll explain why.
1. Shining Ones remove spells, including Magic Resistance.
2. Shining Ones and Vistalks paralyze, after which the unit will no longer be able to respond to attacks. Shining Ones and cavalry cannot be countered. Therefore, a level 3 counterattack is completely irrelevant.
3. A lot of damage comes from magic, so defense is not as important as attack.
4. The racial ability "Remove Shackles" is useless against the Alliance, as they don't have dark magic.