Posts from The Lord of the Rings

Title: The Lord of the Rings
Map name: The Lord of the Rings
Two-level map: yes
Number of players: 8
Size: XL
Difficulty level: Very difficult
Map author: Akronis

The Dark Lord Sauron is gathering his forces to destroy the last stronghold of humanity - the fortress of Minas Tirith. The wizard Saruman attacks Rohan. Will you side with the Alliance of Men and Elves, or will you prefer to join Sauron's army? The fate of Middle-earth is in your hands.

This is a beta version of a map I created based on Professor Tolkien's books and Jackson's films. Any constructive criticism is welcome, both regarding map design, balance, and other aspects, as well as regarding the plot from Tolkien enthusiasts. The map is filled with various objects, resources, mines, and monsters. This is my personal preference; I like it when there is something to collect and someone to fight on the map. The map will be corrected and supplemented based on your criticism and advice. I would also like to add more quests and RPG elements, but the engine of the third Heroes game has limitations in this regard, so I had to limit myself to small "go and fetch" tasks from various seers and watchtowers, as well as hints about collectible artifacts in "rumors."

By the way, I would be grateful if someone could tell me how to fix the following bug: all players have starting heroes in the castles, but the game somehow doesn't recognize them and says that the player will be selected automatically based on their affiliation with the castle type.

Overall view of the map (click to enlarge):

Another "Lord of the Rings"... I should give it a try. But do you know how many of these there are already? Probably no one has counted them specifically, but here's a collection:
- single maps: http://h3disk.narod.ru/download/lotr.htm
- campaigns: http://h3disk.narod.ru/download/lotr_c.htm
It's a pity that there's no plot in the event-timer sequences. I, for example, never read this saga, and I only saw the first movie (I liked it, by the way).
You were just a little ahead of me: I also have a map "based on" a novel (though less well-known, but written by a famous author) almost ready. Now we need to wait for everyone who wants to play your map to finish it. :)
What can be said at first glance? The drawing is neat, and there are no empty spaces. So, the author tried hard.
The first question right away: Is the special victory condition (bring an artifact) available to computer players - the checkbox is checked. Do you allow this, or did you just not notice?

Well, since the map is based on the novel, the main goal for players is to destroy (for the side of good) or capture (for evil) the ring. And it doesn't matter who does it. As for the plot, it's more complicated. I wanted to convey it, of course, but the actions of the players and computer opponents can be different, not as in the book. And all of this will look a bit strange. If it were possible to set a specific victory condition for each player, that would be a different story. P.S. By the way, I downloaded all the maps and campaigns from these links. One or two of them are worth paying attention to, as maps based on Lord of the Rings. The others don't even have the names of the main characters. And at the same time, they are all geographically incorrect, more like the map author's own vision of Middle-earth.

Akronis, your map might be better than others, but to tackle such a "worn-out" plot, you need to be extremely confident that you can surpass its predecessors. However, not everyone has that goal: maps are usually created and played for fun.
By the way, here's another "Lord of the Rings" map (author - pHOMM):
http://phomm.narod.ru/homm3maps/homm3maps.htm

Wow! I'm famous! But they should have warned me that the map is specifically a story-driven one and that it involves a lot of work with the scripts of Heroes of Might and Magic III, and that the latest version 3.58f of the game needs to be installed.

pHOMM, I already gave you a link to your page, and everything is written there, so "he who has ears..." - why copy and paste unnecessarily?
Regarding the matter at hand: I just finished playing through another map, so I'll try to start yours, Akronis, "The Lord of the Rings," right now.

The main difference between our maps is that the pHOMM map was created specifically based on the plot of "The Lord of the Rings," and it is mainly designed for constant movement and escaping from the Nazgûl. However, the geography and the overall picture of the Shire, Eriador, and the other lands it covers were not shown. My map, on the other hand, allows for a completely different development of the plot and focuses on the correct geography and balance of power at the end of the Third Age. That is, I don't force Frodo to carry the Ring first to Rivendell, then to Moria, then to the Falls of Rauros, and then... The player decides how to destroy Sauron.
If you play it, I look forward to your comments on what to add, remove, or possibly adjust the balance. I managed to play it twice, on both sides, and didn't notice any critical errors.

Here's the issue regarding which side to play as: it seems that the player can only play on the side of Evil (Red - Sauron), and if they want to play for Good, they need to change the settings in the editor. Which color should be chosen in this case? Orange, to play as Frodo?
And another thing that bothers me: "allows for a completely different plot development." In my opinion, if a map is based on a particular work, the author's responsibility is, on the contrary, to ensure the correct course of events and a finale that corresponds to the given plot.

That's exactly the question: which side to play as. It seems that the human player plays on the side of Evil (Red - Sauron), and if you want to play for Good, you need to change the settings in the editor. Which color should you choose in this case? Orange, to play as Frodo?

Do you mean the map settings editor in the game itself? Yes, Frodo is orange. If it weren't for this strange bug that prevents the heroes of most players from being displayed, you would be able to see which color each player has.

And I'm also confused by: "allows for a completely different plot development." In my opinion, if a map is based on a particular work, the author's task is, on the contrary, to ensure the correct course of events and a finale that corresponds to the given plot.

Perhaps the difference lies in our understanding of the words "based on." In my understanding, "motif" and "plot" are different things. As I already wrote, I focused on the correct geography and the general idea of the work (the struggle between good and evil for the Ring). At the same time, events can develop in any way, it is not at all necessary that they develop as they did in the book, which is the main difference from the aforementioned pHOMM map, where almost every step of the player is scripted, he is not free to choose how to deal with the Ring, where to go, and who to fight.

YES! Before playing and winning this simple map of mine (personally, I can spend 15 minutes on it and go through the entire plot, well, the part that's on the map, because it's only a part of the whole saga), one shouldn't say that everything is so limited there. What was before the main character was created – a path full of dangers, and every step could be fatal, but some steps allowed survival, and the game is made up of all the steps at each stage. In essence, the beginning of the saga is almost unchangeable! And only after the Council did different paths emerge; this is approximately what I have shown, i.e., almost no alternative way to complete it, but you still have to find a way to get through it (I remind you that this is the first map of the Campaign, the real Campaign, the saga that you may see in some time, perhaps in separate maps, or somehow else, but the work is in progress, although slowly). Therefore, I ask you to remove these words; the choice exists, but due to insurmountable circumstances, it is limited at this initial stage. Personally, I will say that LOTR is not about epic battles and mega-strategy in a huge and complex world, which, for some reason, many games released in large numbers reflect. For this, I advise you to read the Silmarillion. And LOTR is a small path, the journey of only two non-heroes. The hero in LOTR is Aragorn, and Frodo and Sam are not heroes; they are friends and honorable people. This is what I wanted to reflect. And the entire Campaign will be permeated not by providing complete freedom and a lot of battles, and not by a single path from beginning to end, but by multiple paths from beginning to end, and what the player decides will influence the outcome. Scripts will allow us to convey a complex story of events and decisions made that affect the course of the game. But changing the global course of LOTR seems inappropriate to me. There must be key points; otherwise, not only will the plot collapse, but there will simply be no result. The key points of the saga led to victory over Evil, and any other outcome leads to the loss of an entire universe of freedom and life. Therefore, the plot must exist, but there cannot be a mess, simply because the Fellowship inspired everyone to act with their rejection, but they themselves did not gather armies. And Sauron did not gather armies either; he only dominated the will, and those who were weak obeyed, while the strong chose their own path. P.S. I am not a Tolkienist, but I understand LOTR and everything related to it, and I would like other people, if they want to get involved/be interested, to understand everything, and not just see the surface. P.S.2 I have focused on geography; on my map, you can really travel for as long as it is comparable to the original – months (specifically, the first map – about a month of game time), and the other maps are in progress, and the scale is approximately the same... well, as for the strategy and the "struggle of good against evil for the Ring," please, there was no struggle for the Ring, except for Gollum and Frodo (Boromir doesn't count). "Good" fought for what they wanted to protect: homes, loved ones, states, and that's it. The Ring was almost repulsive to everyone; only the weak coveted the illusory power it gave and received what they deserved.

All these games you're talking about blindly follow the plot of the book, so the player feels like one of the heroes of Middle-earth, turning the entire book into an action game. The same goes for your map. I wanted to recreate the world of Middle-earth in such a way that the player doesn't just play as one of the heroes, but is transported to this world, feels like a part of it, and therefore can influence the events that were depicted in the book. For example, leading the armies of Gondor or Mordor into battle. After all, Heroes is a strategy game, not a stealth action game. I created not a "battle of good versus evil for the Ring," but a "battle of good versus evil for Middle-earth." And the Ring is just an additional condition, which was also present in the book. If it is destroyed, good wins; if it is captured, evil wins. Regarding the geography, I must disagree. A simple example: the Misty Mountains are located south of Rivendell. And I'm not even mentioning that Rivendell is underground... and what is Sauron doing on the map? I have nothing against your map; I honestly tried to play it, but I couldn't. I just didn't understand what to do and where to go. I looked at it through the editor, but the point where, in theory, there should be a transition to another level didn't activate in the game. P.S. By the way, the Ring wasn't appealing to everyone. Even Gandalf and Aragorn felt some weakness towards it, although they overcame it. And they are portrayed in the book as superheroes who simply cannot do anything bad. Everyone else was very easily swayed by the Ring's will. P.S.2 In the Silmarillion, things are not as simple as you say: epic battles and mega-strategy in a huge and complex world. There, the Silmarils played the role of the Ring, and there were adventures no less exciting than in The Lord of the Rings. P.S.3 Personally, I don't like the Goblin translation because it distorts the original idea and simply shows disrespect for the book. Would you like it if someone did the same to your work? I don't think so.

I'll answer starting from the end.) Regarding the dislike for the Goblin... I wanted to write it with humor, and most of the humor is my own; I only borrowed some elements from the Goblin. Also, I have a nearly perfect English version of the script, and I can also write a decent Russian one (by the way, the Goblin does an excellent job of translating movies and providing voiceovers that create a unique atmosphere, and there's more respect in his work than in standard movie translations; the Goblin's funny voiceovers are a matter of taste). I mentioned this in the map description. I didn't say that Silmarillion is simple; I hinted that it has many large-scale battles... and there you can really let your imagination run wild and strategize... I'm not belittling the global events of Lord of the Rings; I just want to emphasize that they fade in comparison to the local events in the Fellowship, which, in my opinion, many people forget, relying on the fact that the action element will bring in more money (I'm talking about commercial games), and I would like people to be aware of this aspect as well. I also have nothing against your map (although I'm pretending, I didn't like the different dwarven settlements connected by underground passages; the poor dwarves, how did they dig these thousands of leagues underground... I can't imagine... and I didn't like that there wasn't even an Anduin, because he plays an essential role in the plot... but he is shown as a stream that the heroes cross as if it were dry land; I think it's worth reflecting the grandeur of the largest river, at least by making it like mine, a strip of water). The map is good, strategic, and focuses on developing heroes, armies, and cities; there is plenty of everything. I just wanted to say that the hero platform, although it fits the graphics and atmosphere, is not very suitable for Lord of the Rings without proper adaptation. A simple example: in strategic maps based on Lord of the Rings, you can buy a magic book for almost any hero, teach them spells, and cast fireballs and lightnings; this is clearly not in line with the spirit of Lord of the Rings. We can talk a lot about the Ring, especially about the characters and the Ring, but I meant the faceless mass of "free peoples of Middle-earth," i.e., ordinary inhabitants – hobbits, elves, dwarves, and humans, mostly humans, because they are the majority and involved in many events. They all fought for freedom, not for the Ring. They chose to fight, but the members of the Fellowship and the "leaders" helped them understand that this measure was necessary. That was my point. You can probably complete my map, but most likely, one of the conditions was not met... (you need to take the Ring from Bilbo, talk to Gandalf, and reach Bree (you can follow the road, which leads to Bree, or go through the forests, along paths and labyrinths; in the worst case, look in the editor where Bree is; while you're going, they might attack you 100 times; and there are several paths, by the way) and take Aragorn, and then stand on the road above the sign; then you will be transported to the "underground" further down the road). Try again; I think some of the moments will appeal to you. Sauron is on the map so that the player can see the enemy when choosing the map and in the Thieves' Guild in the game (in the tavern, as another rumor). On the map, Sauron himself doesn't do anything, and it's difficult to find him, except in the editor. Rivendell (Imladris in my version) shouldn't be underground... http://tolkien.su/wiki/ривенделл, http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Имладрис, I recommend. Regarding the mountains, I took a shortcut and placed them as if they surround Rivendell; the possible area was only to the south; from all other sides, they are implied, and even from the south, they gradually turn westward, which I reflected, albeit clumsily. Visiting a saga with one or two heroes is one thing, and commanding peoples is another... this is clear; we shouldn't argue because we have different types of works, and both have their truth... therefore, I'm not demanding, but I would simply like many aspects of Lord of the Rings to be considered when depicting this universe in any form. I left the aspect of epic battles for the next campaign maps, because they are part of the plot... but I saw little of the quest, plot, and personal aspect in your map... does the world, your vision of which you describe, deserve only the mention of city names and character names in the entire plot? And why are there djinns, vampires, demons, and other creatures that have nothing to do with Lord of the Rings on this map... I would still like to see the uniqueness... and all the other heroic content looks great on other maps, but here it's out of place... in my opinion. P.S. I'm sorry, of course; it might look like an attack on you, but I didn't mean it; I just want to be heard... because this is really not the first map based on Lord of the Rings, and there are many more strategic maps than plot-driven ones... and I would like the plot part to look decent as well.

I completely agree with you; of course, it would be nice to have a decent storyline as well, but it's difficult to achieve this in Heroes (especially in the non-WOG versions), as it is, after all, a strategy game. Therefore, I tried to find a middle ground between strategy and storyline. I'm still planning to work on the storyline, but I don't intend to direct it solely in one direction, based on the book, because player freedom is a key feature of strategy games, unlike action games, racing games, and so on. Regarding vampires, demons, and other creatures, I also agree with you. But on the other hand, I initially placed only creatures related to Lord of the Rings on this map. It turned out to be quite boring, constantly fighting the same goblins and orcs. Besides, the castles placed on the map also have creatures that are not related to Tolkien's saga (griffins, cyclops, centaurs, unicorns, etc.), and it's impossible to control this. Unless I made some creature generators in the castle unavailable, which would disrupt the map's balance. Regarding Anduin, I'm not thrilled with it myself; even a minimal strip of water takes up 2 cells in width, which looked unattractive in the overall scale of the map (each cell of mountains, rivers, city entrances, and large forest boundaries corresponds to a map of Middle-earth). As for your map: the thing is, when I talked to Gandalf, Bilbo (I assume he's the hobbit standing nearby) just ran off somewhere to the southeast. I also went into the city itself and several houses nearby, but nothing happened.

Perhaps you have additional scripts... you can try the following: rename the "data\s" folder in the game to, say, "data\s1" and try again.
You need to do the following in order: approach Bilbo, approach Gandalf, and start running away from the Nazgûl. It's up to you how you manage to escape, but you need to get to Bree and enter the tavern. After all the dialogues in Bree, leave immediately and stand above the sign on the road, which should take you to the next level. There, you need to reach Rivendell by any means, while running away from a large number of Nazgûl. After reaching Rivendell and listening to the Council, you need to go almost directly south, and you will reach Moria. Then, you just need to enter it. The rest of the additional paths and mini-quests are up to you. Important: you cannot lose anyone in battles, and you should not manipulate the army (e.g., dismiss units), otherwise you will simply lose.
After completing the map, return the folder name to its original state.
That's it! Good luck!

pHOMM, thank you for the detailed explanation. I agree with you. Those who want a strategy game with complete freedom of action should write their own story and leave "The Lord of the Rings" and other outstanding works alone, as rewriting them is not a worthy endeavor (although there is a genre in science fiction called "alternative history"). This does not mean, Akronis, that your map is bad: we simply have different perspectives.