How to counter mind control spells (subjugation, blinding, etc.) used by a Necromancer? — Haven

VVS_raz

4/9/2010 11:41 AM UTC

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Actually, the question has already been asked in the title of the thread. I've played against a Necromancer (human player) on medium and large maps many times. If he doesn't get the "Subjugation" skill, victory is practically guaranteed. But if the Necromancer acquires "Subjugation" (which is very likely on large maps, especially if there's a Dragon Lair), it becomes impossible to defeat him. In the last battles, it went like this... I had 200 Paladins and other units for Axel, and he only had 80 Banshees and other units (I converted a lot of Monks to his side). As a result, thanks to "Subjugation," spellcasting (he often moved around with his hero), high-level magic, knowledge, and education, he kept subjugating my units and using them to wipe out my entire army while simultaneously resurrecting himself. What should I do?! :smile21:

antonag07

4/9/2010 4:10 PM UTC

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VVS_raz

What should I do????!:smile21:

Actually, your victory shouldn't be in doubt, not only because of the huge number of paladins, but also due to the incorrect (in my opinion) selection of troops in the undead army. I find it hard to understand why he needs banshees (the correct solution would be harbingers), but you can safely cast "Antimagic" first on the paladins, and then on other controlled/berserked units. Besides, adepts can also remove control with their "Purify" spell, and there's also an area-of-effect "Dispel Magic" (although it won't remove "Berserk"). So, develop your knight's skillful Light magic, and go into battle!:smile13: :smile13: :smile13: :smile13:

In reply to antonag07

VVS_raz

4/10/2010 2:42 AM UTC

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antonag07

Frankly, your victory shouldn't be in doubt, not only because of the huge number of Paladins, but also due to the, in my opinion, incorrect selection of units in the undead army. I find it hard to understand why he needs Banshees (the correct choice would be Harbingers), but because of this, you can safely cast "Antimagic" first on the Paladins, and then on other controlled/berserked units. Besides, Adepts can also remove control with their "Purification" spell, and there's also the area-of-effect "Dispel" (although it won't remove "Berserk"). So, develop your knight's skillful Light magic, and into battle!:smile13: :smile13: :smile13: :smile13:

The catch is that on a large map and with 2 castles, there was no Antimagic. And Dispel and Purification were ineffective half the time because his magic skill was 1.5-2 times higher than mine (this is always the case, as it's his main skill + education). And his hero was constantly moving around... every 4-5 turns, and I just couldn't keep up.

He casts control, and then my cavalry moves, and he eliminates 1 unit (of monks), then the second unit, and so on....

In reply to VVS_raz

antonag07

4/10/2010 6:07 PM UTC

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VVS_raz

removing enchantments and cleansing was ineffective in half the cases because his magic skill was 1.5 to 2 times higher than mine (this is always the case because it's his main skill + education).

The magic parameter does not affect "Remove Enchantment" - the level of the spellcaster is the deciding factor (see the manual for more details). Even if he has "Spellcasting" (expert), you (with "Soldier's Luck") will have several attempts to remove his "Dominate". Try this build: Light (Storm - Secrets of Light), Attack (BB), Defense, Luck (Magic, Soldier's). And for dessert, either Leadership or Education. Try my build and let me know the results.

Саня Изи

4/11/2010 6:55 PM UTC

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By the way, there's this Zoltan who blocks antimagic...

In reply to Саня Изи

antonag07

4/12/2010 6:21 PM UTC

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Lordesat

By the way, there's this Zoltan who can block antimagic...

Let's put it this way – Zoltan's specialty allows him to block the spell(s) cast by his opponent during the battle. If you've read the messages above carefully, you've probably noticed that someone was asking for advice on how to counter "Dominate," and I suggested trying a clever "Antimagic." So, even if Zoltan blocks the "Antimagic" cast on the paladins (and that's not a certainty – there are cases where Zoltan blocked spells of level 2 only after 4-5 attempts), this block will occur after the "Antimagic" is cast on the paladins – and thus, it will be impossible to dominate them while the spell is active, which is essentially what's needed for success in the battle.

Саня Изи

4/13/2010 1:53 PM UTC

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You can’t defeat the undead with paladins alone – it’s been proven.

Смысла нет, но вы держитесь там. Удачи, здоровья, хорошего настроения!
И пока в кармане пачка милкиуэйев - значит все не так уж плохо на сегодняшний день

Mish-gan

4/18/2010 5:58 AM UTC

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I think "Vampirism" is better than "Antimagic".

In reply to antonag07

Саня Изи

5/17/2010 6:37 PM UTC

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antonag07

Let's put it this way – Zoltan's specialty allows him to block the spell(s) cast by his opponent during a battle. If you read the messages above carefully, you probably noticed that someone was asking for advice on how to counter "Dominate," and I suggested trying a clever "Antimagic." So, even if Zoltan blocks the "Antimagic" cast on the paladins (and that's not a certainty – there are cases where Zoltan blocked 2nd-level spells only after 4-5 attempts :)), this block will occur after the "Antimagic" is cast on the paladins – and thus, it will be impossible to dominate them while the spell is active, which is exactly what's needed for success in the battle.

Antimagic is removed by messengers, so there's no need for that:smile34:

Смысла нет, но вы держитесь там. Удачи, здоровья, хорошего настроения!
И пока в кармане пачка милкиуэйев - значит все не так уж плохо на сегодняшний день

In reply to Саня Изи

antonag07

5/18/2010 4:51 PM UTC

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Lordesat

Antimagic is removed by messengers, so there's no need for that:smile34:

Well, to be honest, it's clear that you still haven't learned to read messages carefully – I'm not going to quote my own message from 04/09/2010, addressed to user VVS_raz – because I think it's better to give you the opportunity to reread the topic yourself and understand what is needed here and what is not:smile48:

Саня Изи

6/6/2010 8:52 PM UTC

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Here's another good way to get rid of not only antimagic, but also magic – recruit imps into your army and replace zombies with them. Of course, for this, you also need an Inferno Castle.

Смысла нет, но вы держитесь там. Удачи, здоровья, хорошего настроения!
И пока в кармане пачка милкиуэйев - значит все не так уж плохо на сегодняшний день

In reply to Саня Изи

Aluxuu B.

6/22/2010 10:24 AM UTC

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A proven method against Necromancers is... I generally think Humans are weak in Heroes 5... but that's a separate topic... there is a solution...
Download Dark Magic and take the skills "Dark Pact" and "Weakness". Divide your Paladins into two groups and place them next to each other during battle... because thanks to your Dark Magic, their resistance to "Dark Pact" and their Berserk and Initiative will decrease significantly... The Necromancer casts "Dark Pact" on a Paladin... you immediately remove it from him, and the other one attacks - that's the whole secret :))... you can also find Sandro's Cloak, which will help you cast "Dark Pact" and Berserk on the Necromancer... and that's it, the Necromancer is defeated... he won't be able to do anything anymore... :smile01:

Саня Изи

6/24/2010 4:48 PM UTC

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Your so-called “proven” method is a trap for newbies. If you split up the Paladins you took instead of Isabel’s Knights, these two stacks won’t be worth blinding with Vampires and then finishing off. Besides, judging by everything, your Paladins won’t be doing much besides healing. Also, there are other suitable targets for the Berserker, such as Angels. And your Darkness vulnerability won’t give the Necromancer much of an advantage with high spell power. The only thing you can hope for is a cloak, which is hard to find.

Смысла нет, но вы держитесь там. Удачи, здоровья, хорошего настроения!
И пока в кармане пачка милкиуэйев - значит все не так уж плохо на сегодняшний день

In reply to Саня Изи

Aluxuu B.

7/25/2010 6:48 AM UTC

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That's exactly the point... it works, but they won't bother with healing... 60-70 Paladins are enough to wipe out almost any Necropolis army with a single attack... it's been tested... I've played a lot against humans on large maps... and because of this method of dividing the Paladins, I got defeated... and if you also encounter Sandro's Cloak... and on a large map, that's 80% out of 100%, then it's game over for the Necropolis... and there's nothing you can do about it...

Ganseng

7/25/2010 3:52 PM UTC

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60-70 Paladins are enough to obliterate almost any undead army in a single strike.

This isn't like magic users, who have neither defense nor attack. You won't kill any undead unit in a single strike, even if you really want to. Except maybe skeletons.
Two Paladin units are easy prey for mind control. And if you have two cavalry units, then you won't have another unit, like Landlords, for example. Even if a Knight finds the Cloak, considering his meager magic skills, mind control will only be useful to avoid taking a counterattack, for which mass slow is much more effective.