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Unified cross-resource rules for Heroes 3
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17 years ago
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As a first iteration, we can take the rules developed during the inter-resource match.
I ask all interested parties to express their opinions; all kinds of statements are welcome – critical ones, simple “no,” constructive suggestions, poems, business plans – basically everything except spam and flame.
As a measure for implementation, I suggest that we promote the "Interportal" rules and make it good form to play by them, without initially forcing or compelling anyone – let's make it fashionable; everyone should understand that by playing according to these rules, they contribute to uniting the player community, or simply show themselves as great players :).

P.S. And here is a link to the Interportal rules themselves (click on the link and see the first post in the topic):
/topic/4921/
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17 years ago
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I definitely support it...
But...
1. As far as I know, inter-portal rules are created when a tournament between portals is held (which, by the way, has already happened)...
2. The idea is good, but it's difficult to find the optimal rules, especially on one website, and even more so between different websites...
3. Even if these rules are established, regular tournaments will need to be held, and players should compete with as many portals as possible. And that's not easy; it requires a lot of time and effort to organize....
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17 years ago
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I think that's how it should be, Portal players often play with World players and vice versa, maybe in the future the cross-portal will not be limited only to our resources as I originally wanted...
So, personally, I can often leave Necropolis as red after agreeing to play by HeroesWorld rules, without remembering the specific differences at the time, and only later when I see Gosha :smile24: as a starting hero - I remember.
It would be correct to use the quite adequate cross-portal rules in such games, however, for the most part, IMHO it all depends on the agreements between the players, and in the case of some trivial violation, it's unlikely that anyone will be handing out tech bans to anyone (again IMHO), since here the game is more for fun rather than rating (although many post the results on both resources at the same time), and also because who would be the judges then? :)

P.s.: I think the need for cross-portal rules at this stage is still more in demand for official cross-portal competitions than for playing in the seasonal league, but as an option, if someone has disputes or disagreements about which rules to play by and they have forgotten or simply don't know about the work done to create cross-portal rules - advertisement wouldn't hurt :smile02:
17 years ago
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The idea is interesting. In the spring, together with Zerzes, I worked on developing inter-portal rules with only one specific goal – to hold a match between two player communities. It is quite possible to develop universal rules. The main advantage in achieving this goal at the moment is the willingness of competition organizers on both resources to cooperate. For example, I can consider Zerzes, Neo, Dreamcatcher – the most active tournament organizers – as good acquaintances, with whom I can easily find common ground on any Heroes-related issue. I think that VBN, Evgeny, Adelaide, Invisible (am I only listing Homov's people?), Loy, Dreamcatcher (he manages to be everywhere!) are also in favor of cooperation between online players. What are the advantages of universal rules? 1. Holding inter-resource tournaments, bringing player communities closer together. This is not only an inter-portal match (and it will probably happen again, possibly later this year). Perhaps the idea of holding an official individual championship for both resources at once is interesting: since all serious, practicing players in SoD currently live on our two resources, a legitimate Heroes of Might and Magic 3 champion in the SoD version will appear throughout the Russian-speaking world, which has not been the case for over 4 years, since Andre's victory at the Krasnodar CIS Championship. I think that neither resource can handle the status of such a tournament on its own, but together they can, to the greater glory and respect. 2. Convenience for the players themselves. Let's say you want to play, but there is stagnation on your native forum, and a big tournament is starting on the neighboring resource. Naturally, the player signs up, but in the heat of the battle, he may forget and play "according to his own rules." Even if it doesn't result in a scandal, the game is still ruined. Unification would allow players to play seamlessly on different resources, which would raise the status of tournaments to the benefit of both communities.
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17 years ago
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IMHO, such an idea would only work with HOMM3 and HeroesWorld. On Liga and Bay they play a different version ;-) On the first one only fixes—the rules are completely different. On the second one the basic rules are the same as ours, but TE changes a lot.
But otherwise it's a fine idea—the rules on SoD resources are 90% identical anyway.
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17 years ago
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loi;196695
As a first iteration, we can take the rules developed during an inter-resource match.
I ask all interested parties to express their opinions; all kinds of statements are welcome – critical ones, simple "no," constructive ones, poems, business plans – basically everything except spam and flame.
As a measure for implementation, I suggest that we promote the "Interportal" rules and make it good form to play by them, without initially forcing or coercing anyone – just make it fashionable; everyone should understand that by playing according to these rules, they contribute to uniting the player community, or simply show themselves as cool guys :)

P.S. And here is a link to the Interportal rules (click on the link and see the first post in the topic):
/topic/4921/

Excellent idea! We're all playing the same game, regardless of where you're registered; our passion is one and the same. Portal and World have become very closely connected; at least 20-30 players are registered and play on both resources. Let everyone be able to comfortably play by unified rules.
I look forward to suggestions and am ready to reasonably edit the portal rules and come to an agreement.
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17 years ago
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I also want to say a few words:
2. Convenience for the players themselves. Let's say you want to play, but the activity on your native forum has stagnated, while a major tournament is starting on a neighboring resource. Naturally, the player signs up, but in the heat of the competition, they might forget and start playing "by their own rules." Even if it doesn't lead to a scandal, the game is still ruined. Unification would allow players to play seamlessly on different resources, which would raise the status of tournaments to the benefit of both communities.
So that this kind of nonsense doesn't happen, you can simply discuss it in a small group and agree on common rules – why make it so difficult?
And if you are already thinking about the rules, here is a request:
If you compare the rules between fixed and random games, the fixed game has fewer restrictions, and there might be a couple more nuances. So, maybe you could add a few points to these rules with a note "fixed only" and the same for points that are not suitable for fixed games (for example, building a Grand Magus for using scrolls) - "random only"? I'm ready to delve into this if you like the idea:)
17 years ago
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I'd like to recall Dreamcatcher's spring post, when we were planning a cross-server match, regarding differences in rules.
1. Restarts. On HP there is no restart upon meeting on 1-1-6, on HW there is.
2. Heroes. There are differences concerning the use of spells obtained from 4th-level specialist heroes. No point in detailing it, take a close look yourselves. But pay attention: On HP, Tanth is restricted, same as 4th-level specialists, on HW it is not.
3. Scrolls. On HW, the requirements for building magic are more flexible, granting the right to use scrolls, but there is no Week 6 rule. On HP, there is.
4. Necropolis. On HP, the starting hero is random, goodbye Gosh.
5. Diplomacy. On HP, it is completely banned, on HW, it is allowed with restrictions.

In general — where we must concede, and where they must. The most serious issue in my opinion is the restart on 116. If two strong players meet, the hero encounter can happen very early; again, recall the cross-portal match.
In reply to ewgeniy
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17 years ago
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Hello everyone. To avoid any confusion, I'm in favor of inter-portal rules. However, they need to be formalized somewhere so that everyone can read and understand them.
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17 years ago
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To avoid such nonsense, you can simply discuss it in a small group and agree on common rules – why make things difficult?
That's exactly what the next step will be – in my opinion. For now, let the player base get acquainted with it, and then it will be up to the leaders – Nagan, Vbn, Evgeniy, etc. from World, Vitalik, and someone authorized from the Portal – to give us the rules on how to live and play – the right way!
1. Restarts. There are no restarts on HotA based on the 1-1-6 encounter, but there are on HotV.
2. Heroes. There are differences regarding the use of spells obtained from level 4 specialist heroes. There's no point in detailing it; just look closely. But pay attention: on HotA, Tant is limited, as are the level 4 specialists, but not on HotV.
3. Scrolls. On HotV, the requirements for building magic that allows the use of scrolls are more flexible, but there is no rule for the 6th week. On HotA, there is.
4. Necropolis. On HotA, the starting hero is random; goodbye, Gosha.
5. Diplomacy. On HotA, it is completely prohibited, but on HotV, it is allowed to a limited extent.

When creating the rules, I suggest using the following criteria – balance, freedom of strategies, simplicity, and clarity – in descending order of importance. Based on this and some experience, here are the default rules (of course, you can change them by agreement):
1. Remove the 116 restart – use scouting from the first days.
2. Do not limit Tant and Loins – I'm not sure about Tant; I don't have much experience.
3. Rarely applicable – I have never built 2 level 3 castles to use a scroll. Therefore, based on simplicity, introduce the 6-week rule.
4. Goodbye, Gosha, from the start – there will be fewer complaints about Necropolis.
5. Allow it to a limited extent – otherwise, I won't be able to refuse navigation, for example. Besides, there is an option – to level up a weak hero who carries troops – why cut off that possibility?
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17 years ago
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Well, I think we should adopt our rules for the HW portal; they are more flexible.
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17 years ago
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invisible;196964

1. On the portal, when starting as Necropolis, the hero is random. I believe that the ban on building the Amplifier significantly nerfed the Necro's strength. And if you also start in the underground even with Galthran, it's a loss in most cases. I understand that Gosha is Gosha, but I propose to ALLOW!!! building the Amplifier, BUT with a ban on upgrading Vampires!

I recently suggested on the Portal to buff Necro by allowing hero selection at the start. The reason was the more than modest win/loss statistics for this town. The idea didn't find understanding; people only started agreeing with the condition of banning Gosha. The people got scared as hell. And you want to allow the Amplifier to an already chosen Gosha :eek: Imho, the thought won't fly.
invisible;196964

4. I am categorically against allowing the purchase of monsters of any level that appear as a result of that monster's week. On HW this rule doesn't exist (although I planned to add it at one point); on HP only the purchase of 7th-level monsters is forbidden. +5 bears is good on 121, of course, but +5 horses is also busted!

But what about archers or troglodytes? Honestly counting when buying to avoid buying an extra 5-unit stack, and remembering it until the end of the game. Imho, it's better to just introduce a rule that during a monster's week, loading from a save is mandatory.
invisible;196964

5. On HP I didn't see a clause at all allowing buying creatures in Refugee Camps; on HW it's allowed and IMHO it's not busted at all, because mostly you get spearmen at the start, and the object is pretty well guarded. I personally am FOR.

On HP there is no permissive clause, nor a prohibitive one. The Refugee Camp has always been used, and even upgraded Phoenixes and Vamps were bought out. I don't remember any precedent for disputes on this matter.
invisible;196964

6. Not so long ago a situation arose, after which a clause was added to the HW rules: "...In the absence of a passage guard, including a shifted one, free passage from respawn to respawn is allowed..." It happens that there is a passage, but the guard is nowhere to be seen. Perhaps the opponent broke through the passage, or perhaps it's a generator glitch.

I had a situation in a game, rare, but could happen again in the future. I approached the border of the respawns, my Swamp - next to a neutral Stone. I see a shifted guard, don't have time to fight it. Then my opponent jumps over from the Stone territory and attacks me. His perspective: approached the border, I'm standing there. He didn't see a guard. So, did I pass through? He attacks - and the battle takes place on Swamp ground. Formally - he violated the shifted guard rule, because he passed from Stone to Swamp. How to avoid this? I couldn't think of anything other than asking the opponent if he had broken through anyone or not. It sounds silly, but there is already a precedent, and it could easily give birth to another topic for Besha's poems.
invisible;196964

9. Neither on HW nor on HP does it say anything about the mandatory visiting of all obelisks before digging up the Grail.

Correct, there isn't. It's an offline option. And what's the point of revealing all obelisks if the Grail is allowed from week 6. Games rarely last that long, even if 1-4-1 shouldn't happen (c)! And has anyone even dug for the Grail at all? I only know one person, my buddy, we dug for the Grail in every game because we played on M-maps. The habit carried over to L-maps for him, and quite successfully! In one game he dug up the Grail on week five. And he even suggested changing the rules so you could dig for the Grail even on the first week! :)
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17 years ago
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I agree with Seryoga about the Grail. I found it on week 6, but I couldn't open all the obelisks, and it's just not possible. Since some of the obelisks are on the enemy's territory, and it's impossible to visit all the obelisks there. Either you kill the enemy, leaving him with a castle (which sounds stupid), or you try to send weak units to quickly open the obelisks (which sounds unlikely)....
LET'S VOTE!!!!!!!!!!!!
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17 years ago
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I would like the Grail to be available for excavation starting from version 1.4.1, or without any restrictions. There is no intrigue at all in the game regarding the Grail; no one even tries to excavate it because there simply isn't enough time.

Magic specialists of level 4 are generally harmless, except for Solmyr, Dimera, and Aislinn.
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17 years ago
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invisible;196964

1. On the portal, when starting a Necropolis game, the hero is random. I believe that the ban on building the Amplifier significantly reduced the strength of the Necropolis faction. And if you also start in the Underground, even with Galthran, it's a loss in most cases. I understand that Gosh is Gosh, but I suggest allowing the construction of the Amplifier, BUT with a ban on upgrading Vampires!

2. I am strongly against canceling the restart upon encountering another player! I don't want to encounter Valeska in the first week, who has 30+ extremely powerful Moral Archers, and I would even less like to encounter the Miner, who has a pair of Angels and Dragons on day 114, supported by 150+ Trolls. This restart balances the overpowered castles with those that need a little development. What can the Barbarians do in the first 6 days of the game? Can 1 Bear, 3 Rukh, and a bunch of Goblins kill even one Troll of Shaktii? Or will 2 Efreet kill everyone?


1. I believe that the Necropolis faction is perfectly fine even without the Amplifier. As for the statistics, there aren't that many people who want to play against the Necropolis with a pre-set Galthran.
2. As far as I know, Shaktii with a starting Dragon is a well-known and effective tactic that wins in 90% of cases. Although, I completely agree about the restart upon encountering another player.

By the way, developing a unified set of rules is a very good and correct thing to do.

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