Upgrade or alternative upgrade? — Fortress

Хранитель заката

18 years ago

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Here's the question. Which upgrades and for which creatures in the Dwarf Castle do you choose? Please provide the upgrade type and justification in advance. Please avoid off-topic discussions. For example: Mountain Guard, because... Harpooner, because... P.S. There is a similar topic, but I think it would be useful to create it in a separate section so that it is clearly visible who chooses what and why.

ValgallaWolf

18 years ago

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Level 1 - Warriors (Wall of Shields - awesome)
Level 2 - Spear Masters (Chance to stun - better than pulling (many say you can push them into walls of fire, etc., but I don't think situations arise that often where units are crowded in one cell next to a wall))
Level 3 - I don't build them (in my opinion, both abilities are stupid; you run to block archers, and they, on the contrary, are pushed back)
Level 4 - depending on the situation (depending on who I'm playing against, against fast factions - Berserkers)
Level 5 - I buy them in equal numbers or only one type, but I divide them into 2 stacks (one places a fire mark, the second casts a spell)
Level 6 - Yarls (against slow units - Erls)
Level 7 - Arcat Dragons (well, it's obvious)

In reply to ValgallaWolf

Майор Вихрь

18 years ago

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ValgallaWolf;149889

Level 1 - Warriors (a wall of shields is awesome)
Level 2 - Spear Masters (the chance to stun is better than pull (many say that you can push them into walls of fire, etc., but I don't think that situations arise so often where units are crowded in one cell next to a wall)
Level 3 - I don't build them (in my opinion, both abilities are stupid; you run to block archers, and they, on the contrary, are pushed back)
Level 4 - depending on the situation (depending on who I'm playing against, against fast factions - Berserkers)
Level 5 - I buy them in equal numbers or only one type, but I divide them into 2 stacks (one places a fire mark, the second casts a spell)
Level 6 - Jarls (against slow ones - Earls)
Level 7 - Arcata Dragons (well, it's clear here)

I wanted to just write it like that, but since I'm already doing it, I'll express my opinion by commenting on Valgalla's post ;)
1. In my opinion, we upgrade the creeps to the first level (we don't move them from their place if the enemies are not archers, +5 defense is not лишние), closer to serious battles, we upgrade them to the old level. It is really cool, a kind of counter to lizards and riders :)
2. You can move them not only when defending the city. With a successful arrangement of troops on the initiative line, you can open up enemy archers for some Berserkers. Crippling Strike works more or less often only at low levels, but the harpoon always does... It's a matter of taste/your battle tactics/the number of creatures.
3. And in vain, by the way, you don't build them. Can you just take such creatures and ignore them? A clear demonstration of their strength is the dueling hero - Ibba. The bears run quickly, a good initiative by the standards of the dwarves, and good abilities for both upgrades. The main core of the dwarves' army, IMHO. The new ones have a terrible ability... I'm for them)
4. These can be skipped when developing the city, there is clearly less benefit from Berserkers than from level 3. The second upgrade looks more interesting at first glance... But real games with dwarves are needed (which I have quite rarely) to say who is better.
5. Here, I like the Arcata Priests more, because the cross attack is great, and +1 initiative can be crucial. Flame Priests "like" to attack single targets more, they have more HP... And it seems that they cast Fireball instead of Wall of Fire. In general, the choice depends on the situation and personal preferences. For some reason, I like the first ones more)
6. It is noticeable that the Earls have much less damage. This is due to the Storm Strike. When attacking 2 stacks, the Earl balances the damage with the Jarl, and when attacking 3 or more stacks, it gains an advantage. It has a decent amount of HP, but 1 less initiative. My choice is Earls... Jarls didn't really appeal to me.
7. Again, due to my lack of experience playing as dwarves, I cannot adequately assess the ability of the new dragons, but I am more inclined towards the Lava ones. The Lava Shield is a great thing in any case, but the Liquid Flame makes me uneasy...

In reply to Майор Вихрь

ValgallaWolf

18 years ago

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Major Whirlwind; 150023

I wanted to just write it, but since I'm already doing it, I'll express my opinion by commenting on Valhalla's post ;)
Overquoting

1) I meant a wall of fire)).
2) Also, a clear example would be the archers running away from you, which you chased across the entire map in version 2.1, and the harpies in 3.0 (it happened to me many times).
3) Berserkers are more useful, in my opinion, because they occupy only one cell, while you can only protect archers diagonally with bears)).
4) I won't elaborate on Jarls yet, I can't prove that they are better.
5) But the Arcomage Dragons... Play as Helmar on a duel server, and everything will become clear; it's a mini wall of fire, not a weak flame.

Майор Вихрь

18 years ago

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1) Regarding the wall of fire, you are right. This happens quite rarely. And in general, the purpose of the ability isn't that. Sometimes, by moving an archer stack closer to the enemy, you can deprive them of the ability to attack. And that's actually quite good. 2) Actually, who forces you to attack them specifically? If they are enemy troops, you definitely won't see any exposed archers, and the ability will help you "expose" them. If they are neutral... Then you can reach these archers before their turn (there's a chance if the archers are new; if they are old, then the bears almost always go first), and therefore, kill a significant number of them. You can definitely break them into two stacks to hit more stacks and possibly reduce losses. Even if they are pushed back, they won't deal colossal damage, because they are too vulnerable and many of them will die. 5) Let me explain: Liquid Flame is nothing more than a mini-fire wall, to use your terms. It doesn't deal that much damage, but at the same time, the upgraded unit loses its lava shield and dragon's breath... And Helmar only has 3 of these dragons. That is, the damage from one such "mini-fire wall" is only about 30 units... I don't consider this to be significant at all.

In reply to Майор Вихрь

Mefisto

18 years ago

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Did you know about a cool trick for the Academy faction against the Wall of Fire? Take all your units, move them away from the wall, and then use Magnetic Golems to regenerate health:smile11: :D! So, Fireball is better. And in general, the old Dwarf units are better than the new ones (except for the dragons).

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Майор Вихрь

18 years ago

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la)(ty;150654

Did you know about a cool trick for the Academy faction against a wall of fire? Take all your units, move them away from the wall, and then run with the Magnetic Golems to regenerate:smile11: :D! So, Fireball is better! And in general, the old Dwarf units are better than the new ones (except for the dragons).

Well, yes... You'll be helping the enemy a lot by wasting a turn with the Golems almost completely. You can't resurrect a large number of them.

You claim that the old Dwarf units are better... Well, well. Provide at least a couple of convincing arguments to make people believe you or at least understand why you think so. In my opinion, the Dwarf upgrades are more or less equivalent.

In reply to Майор Вихрь

ValgallaWolf

18 years ago

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Major Whirlwind; 150575

1) Regarding the wall of fire, you are right. This happens quite rarely. And in general, the point of the ability is not in this. Sometimes, by moving a ranged unit stack closer to the enemy, you deprive them of the opportunity to attack. And that's pretty cool.
2) Actually, who forces you to attack them specifically? If these are enemy troops, you definitely won't see any exposed archers, and the ability will help you "expose" them. If they are neutral... Then you can reach these archers before their turn (there is a chance if the archers are new; if they are old, then almost always the bears go first), and therefore, kill a significant part of them. You can break them into 2 stacks in order to hit more stacks and possibly reduce losses. Even if they are pushed back, they will not cause colossal damage, because they are too vulnerable and many of them will die.
5) Let me explain, Liquid Flame is nothing more than a mini-fire wall, in your terms. It doesn't deal that much damage, but at the same time, the upgraded unit loses its lava shield and dragon's breath... And Helmar only has 3 of these dragons. That is, the damage from one such "mini-fire wall" is only about 30 units... I don't think this is significant at all.

I messed up, you are right... I forgot that their dragon's breath was removed. Then it loses all meaning, I agree... Except for one thing... Spit attacks – mini-walls are placed on 2 cells, one on each, so if a large creature stands there, it will take 60 damage

LordViRuS

17 years ago

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The best upgrade is fire dancers (they apply the fire mark) and flame priests with the Light enchantment – 4 fireballs is a lot of damage.

Ereb

17 years ago

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Plus, Lordvirus has the Regalia of Sar-Iss and Erling:smile20: there are already more than 4 Fireballs. Although, if Battle Fury drops in the guild runes, I'll take Erling.

In reply to Ereb

Silrael

16 years ago

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I've read a lot and realized that everyone has strayed from the topic, but I'll go my own way and say everything in order: 1: Alt. Alt. and that's it: they are stronger, and often the creatures of level 1 are at the first level, and they fight stronger. In general: Alt. 2: Orig. The flanking attack is used less often, and besides, the crippling attack is much more effective. 3: Alt. The fear attack is more effective, and they are generally better. 4: Alt. But don't start cursing me now, saying I'm an idiot and all that. The powerful strike is often used, and the stats are good; they hit back hard and often, and fighting giants is just great. 5: Orig. I think the flanking attack speaks for itself, and the slight loss in stats is not that noticeable. 6: For battles, each race has its own, but without explanations, read: Order: Jarls Necropolis: Jarls Inferno: Earls Forest Alliance: Jarls Dark League: Earls Magic: Earls Ranaar: Earls Northern Clans: Earls I won't explain further: you'll understand during the game. 7: Orig. The bonuses for the Alt are quite bad, while the original is very good. So, the original.

Ereb

16 years ago

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I won't swear, but I'll say a few words about the Arcanum units to keep things interesting. This type of unit should generally stay at home, but it definitely shouldn't be the last one you buy. If things are such that you're dragging your units across the map, searching for resources, and afraid of encountering units like Archmages, Druids, Priests, and Archers... many of them will attack your units, and 90% of the time, it's because your units are weak. So, you should really think about whether you need to take them on an expedition. If the map has a lot of large melee units like Griffons, Djinns, Unicorns, etc., then you can take them, but if they attack first, half of your squad might be wiped out. So, in my opinion, it's better to leave them at home and save up. And in the final stages, take Berserkers, as they surprised me a lot in a game against one player (after that, I started favoring them more).

Soljie

16 years ago

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I disagree with the choice for level 7: While Arcane Dragons may have lost "Dragon's Breath" in the description, it's still present (+ you can apply the Dragon Form rune), and the minor drawbacks compared to the Lava Dragon, such as the Fire Shield, 5 armor, and 5 HP, are compensated by the rune, resulting in significantly better stats overall.

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Mish-gan

16 years ago

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Soljie

I disagree with the choice for level 7: Although Arcane Dragons have lost "Dragon's Breath" in the description, it is still present (+ you can apply the Dragon Form rune), and the small drawbacks compared to the Lava Dragon in the form of a fire shield, 5 armor, and 5 hit points are compensated by the rune, and as a result, it will gain much more.

Dragons cannot apply the Dragon Form rune.

Added 1 hour 51 minutes ago
1. For clearing neutral creatures, we take Alt. and fight defensively. In the final battle, we use Orig., as there is the possibility of protecting adjacent units.
2. For rushing and in the late game, only Orig. - crippling strike.
3. I never use it for clearing neutral creatures; I save it. In a battle against all races except Necropolis, I take Alt. It's clear why (Roar - Claw attack).
4. I never use it for clearing neutral creatures; I save it. Definitely Berserkers, I won't even explain why - it's funny, it's all obvious.
5. For clearing neutral creatures, we take Alt. - fireball. In the final battle, we use Orig. - cross attack, fire wall - we drive away archers.
6. We clear the initial neutral creatures with Trolls and regeneration. In the final battle, definitely Erls - if you can apply the right rune and position the dwarf, and if luck smiles upon you, the final battle will end ahead of schedule. The choice is clear.
7. We build dragons on Veteran level in the second week, and in the third week, we clear all neutral creatures without losses. In the final battle, of course, Lava Dragons. I won't explain, it's all logical - shield. If anyone has doubts, put Lava Dragons under the first attack of 100 or more Knights of Isabel or Paladins, and everything will become clear to you immediately.

Points 1, 3, 5 may be subject to discussion, but 2, 4, 6, 7 are not up for discussion.