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Posts from The essence of the tactics when playing as the Dark Elves.

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18 years ago
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I think the need for such a topic has arisen a long time ago; all the topics in this section indirectly relate to tactics, but many are narrowly focused on discussing some specific aspect (for example, developing a Commander or playing as Dark Elves against someone). As for general topics like "Discussing Dark Elves," I think they are too broad, and truly interesting ideas are found only in 2-3 posts per topic, so it's very difficult to pick up on anything useful from them.

Personally, my tactics for playing as Elves have changed five or six times in the last two weeks.
On dueling maps, I always preferred the Sanitar. Among the advantages that are important at the beginning of the game, there's a powerful spell, meaning that instead of building a guild, you can upgrade Stalkers or build Riders, which is good. However, he still has difficulty clearing mines at the beginning, firstly because he has very little mana, literally enough for 2 shots, so he will have difficulty in prolonged battles, but this problem disappears on days 3-4 as Furies are upgraded and the hero himself becomes stronger.
I develop him like this: Chaos Magic (Fire Control - Secrets of Chaos - Pyromancy).
Secrets of Chaos is a very useful skill, plus it increases mana, and if you're lucky, you might not even need to build a guild in the first few weeks.
I choose Pyromancy instead of Fire Attack because I think it's more important for such a powerful spellcaster.
I increase Luck for the Lucky Charm skill; with this ability, we become incredibly powerful.
And, of course, to use all of this, we need spellcasting, and approximately from these levels, the Sanitar's ability starts to weaken as there is already a lot of mana, especially after upgrading spellcasting.

Recently, I've also liked playing as Ailinn; she is purely a late-game hero, BUT that doesn't mean she's weak at the beginning. Clearing mines is her forte, and it takes about five minutes, as no one can drag out a battle better than her, except perhaps Leto. The trick is that we have a supply cart, and if the enemy isn't a ranged attacker and isn't too fast, then defeating him is easy; you just need a little patience. This is especially good if two heroes encounter a specialist in assassins; then their number increases to 35, which makes it possible to clear 50% of the mines in the first few days. Moreover, a balanced development of both Chaos and Attack skills makes her especially strong, and when we take "Haste," then our army can defeat an enemy that outnumbers it several times without much difficulty. Usually, I develop her as a Commander.

In principle, I recently tried Leto, and he's not bad, both at the beginning because of his ability to prolong battles and at the end because of the power of Dark Magic, although I wouldn't choose him against Humans and Elves.

I would really like to hear your opinion.
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18 years ago
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I think the need for such a topic arose a long time ago; all the topics in the section indirectly relate to tactics, but many are narrowly focused on discussing some single aspect (for example, upgrading a Castle or playing as Dark Elves against someone), and general topics like "Discussing Dark Elves" seem too broad, and truly interesting ideas appear in only 2-3 posts per topic, so it is very difficult to pick up something useful from them...
To make the information easily visible in the post, it should be more specific, indicating the map (or several), if it is a standard map, and the scenario, if it is a HotS scenario, the difficulty level, the starting hero, the dates of key buildings and breakthroughs. It would also be good to indicate the opponent and the turn time. Unfortunately, your post lacks almost all of this, except for the wish that a large number of Stalkers from Vaishya would come to the hero with the spell.
On dueling maps, I always preferred the Sanitar.
I'm tired of giving this dueling example, but on the Former Friends map, the engineers are in the center and clear it out by day 4-5, Leto probably a couple of days later. But how does this work for Sinistar? And for Erin?
Moreover, a balanced upgrade of both Chaos and Attack makes it especially strong, and when we take "Haste," our army can easily defeat an army that outnumbers it several times. I usually upgrade it on the Castle.
And on what level do you get the Castle? What day is it? The information should be in numbers.
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18 years ago
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At what level do you get the Skill Academy (SA)? What day is it? The information should be in numbers.
I just wrote about this in another thread; I was too lazy to repeat it.

And why judge so harshly? I just wanted to suggest a general direction, and you should have analyzed specific examples. If you wanted to show with this post that you play Heroes 5 better than me, I wasn't arguing with that. It would have been better to just write what I was wrong about and provide real examples. And now I'm not being sarcastic; I would be genuinely interested.
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18 years ago
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I just wanted to set the general direction, and you were supposed to analyze specific examples. If you wanted to show with this post that you play better than me, I wouldn't argue with that.
Not at all. I just think that you should have immediately moved on to specifics. And I don't consider myself a particularly strong player.
Although I'm not a big fan of the Tower, I think that Lethos is the strongest hero. He can easily take mines guarded by level 3 creatures in the first week, and with some luck, even level 4 creatures, which is largely due to the stupidity of the AI, which uses Wait after the hunters disappear and takes twice as much damage from Plague. Even with 3 spell power, during the invisibility, Plague will deal an average of 336 damage to the stack, and that's for 6 mana, and the hero himself can attack twice.
In terms of strength, Lethos can be compared to the Mechanists and can be safely banned along with them. In that case, in my opinion, it's worth taking Vaishan (Stalkers + a quick path to Lucky Charm + Mines) or Sinistar (Archers, and, as mentioned above, the ability to get Chaos Magic early). The problem with the Tower is that its first two levels require an upgrade, without which it's impossible to do without, which makes it somewhat difficult to develop on maps with a low starting city level. Previously, many believed that you should go for Hydras, and then magic will solve everything. With the appearance of Orcs and Counterspell for other races (and additional tactics from invisibility), things are no longer so obvious.

Now, about the example I gave earlier - the "Former Friends" map (Veteran, no time limit). It seems to me that it presents some problems for a Warlock-Mage, although there are enough resources there to build every day. This is because you can break through to the center with magical support and fight there, even if it's in the second week, but, as you know, equal players meet in the center. But if you run out of mana, and there's a real shortage of it, unless you find an artifact for Knowledge on your own territory, then things can get bad, because without an upgrade, the Tower is not very combat-ready at levels 3-5. 12 Druids are not 12 Lizards, and there may be 30 Vampires or more. Therefore, I think that the Tower should not try to grab a piece of the center, but, if possible, with full mana (there are wells before the bridges), attack the enemy and bombard them with Chaos. For such purposes, Kifrah with the Golem looks optimal, and she also transforms into a pretty good warrior. And if you manage to get Chaos with Deadly Cold on her early on, then you can even kill a Ballista (because machines can be upgraded not only by Mechanists).

Now I will express my opinion about the Creature Ability (CA). It can only be effectively used in a real game on a really long map and not with a starting hero. The starting hero will be responsible for development, and only then, with an army, you need to level up someone with CA. Otherwise, losses in tempo are inevitable. A good example: for Necropolis, the main candidate for leveling up CA is Deirdre, but as a starting hero, she is very unstable, because she often has problems with quickly getting the Mark skill. For me, CA is still an exotic thing, moreover, these skills differ greatly in strength, there is no talk of balance.
In reply to Fireball
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18 years ago
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Fireball;152227
In terms of skill, Letos can be compared to boosters and banned along with them.

Just to add – not compared, but rather superior. Letos is a widely recognized leader in boosting (boosters are left in the dust) and has been banned for a long time (until AI is improved)...
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18 years ago
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Just to add – it’s not comparable. Letos is a generally recognized leader in rushing (players can only watch) and has been banned for a long time (until the AI is fixed)...
On a specific map, like during a test on the anniversary, yes. But in general – no, not always. Kaspar, for example, defeats Letos on the "Old Friends" map, and not only because of the undead's immunity to plague. Any experienced player can take a medium-sized Utopia on week 2 and without fancy artifacts, but Letos often fails.
In reply to Fireball
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18 years ago
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Fireball;152230
On a specific map, like when testing on the Anniversary map, yes. But in general, no, not always. Kaspar, for example, easily defeats Letos on the "Former Friends" map, and not just because of the undead's immunity to plague. Any skilled player can get a decent Utopia on week 2 without using advanced artifacts, while Letos often fails.

I disagree with this example. I played on "Former Friends" and also against Kaspar. I cleared the entire center on week 2 without any problems.
Getting Utopia with Letos is very simple – you just need to focus on developing the Summoning skill and either Mines or Crystal (the latter is preferable).

[+]
With Crystal, there's a real bug in the AI's behavior. It's as if this spell was specifically created for Necromancers. If there are no enemies on the battlefield (Hunters are in stealth), the AI (you can't really call it intelligence) considers Crystal guilty of all mortal sins and attacks it. This is easy to exploit – place Crystal next to a stack that moves later (and in the case of large creatures, even next to two stacks), and the stack that moves earlier will destroy itself and its allies. Moreover, Black Dragons take full damage, despite the magical type of damage from Crystal.
And Crystal's damage is pretty good. And Earth Lord also affects it...
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18 years ago
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The spell is cool, but it's hard to get; there are plenty of other spells of the same level in the guild.
In reply to Vayshan
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18 years ago
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Vayshan;152274
The spell is cool, but it's hard to get; the guild has plenty of other spells of the same level.

Raise Dead and Swarm of Insects. So, the chance is 33%.
And a 50% chance for Fire Trap. In total, we have a 66.7% chance of getting one of these spells. Not that bad.
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18 years ago
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For some reason, new spells don't work well on old maps. And there are quite a few of those old maps.
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18 years ago
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I disagree with this example. I played against Former Friends and Kaspar as well. I cleared the entire center on the 2nd week without any problems.
Kaspar is already in the center on the 4th day, defending his artillery and then running towards yours. And if you plan to clear the center on the 2nd week, you won't even be allowed into it. Moreover, it's very difficult to chase after artifacts and experience while simultaneously running away from the enemy. And when Letos and Kaspar clash (130-150 skeleton archers, a lot of meat, and a tent with 150-160 resurrection/damage), the former is practically doomed. And considering the specifics of the center, raising 8-9 vampires by day is also not that difficult. And if you ban Kaspar, you should also ban Letos, and that's a completely different game.
With Crystal, there's some kind of bug in the AI's behavior. This spell seems to be specifically designed for Necromancers. If there is no enemy on the battlefield (Hunters are in invisibility), the Idiot (you can't call it Intelligence) considers Crystal guilty of all mortal sins and attacks it. This is easy to exploit: place Crystal next to a stack that moves later (and in the case of large creatures, even next to two), and the stack that moves earlier will blow itself up, along with its colleagues. Moreover, Black Dragons take full damage, despite the magical type of damage from Crystal.
And Crystal's damage is pretty good. And Earth Lord also affects it...
Crystal is a great thing. But setting up the Guild and learning takes a lot of time, plus you also need to get Summon on the first upgrades and level it up. And there are not always enough mines. Kaspar would also like to have Fire Arrows, but you can get them on the 8th day in no more than one out of five cases. And with normal Summon leveling, the Warlock will have a similar situation.
In reply to Fireball
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18 years ago
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Fireball;152308
Kaspar is already in the center on day 4, repelling his own artillery and running towards yours. And if you plan to clear the center on the 2nd week, you won't even be allowed in...

What a scary Kaspar :D

Well, I just tried playing as Lethos and went to the center on the 4th day. And I already had Fire Warriors. I defeated the Northern Riders and High Druids on the bridge. And who's going to stop me from getting there? Yes, mana is a problem. If I had an artifact for Knowledge instead of a ring, it would be even better. And by the way, the Necromancer's helmet is not that rare to find at the start. So, I would have 40 mana. And we could easily fight Kaspar.
But why rush there so early? I would rather upgrade my Guild to level 2 and go there on the 6th day with powerful spells and a means to clear Utopia.
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18 years ago
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Well, I just tried out Lethos and went to the center on day 4. And I already had Fire Warriors. I cleared the Northern Riders and High Druids on the bridge. So, who's going to stop me from getting there? Sure, mana is a bit low.
You cleared the guards, you got lucky (really!) with your Summoning skill, but what will you do in the center without mana? You can clear the bridges with Kaspar on day 2 if you're a little lucky. But he's only truly combat-ready in the center on day 4. Either way, that's two days of leeway.
I would have leveled up the Guild to level 2 and gone there on day 6 with powerful spells and a way to clear Utopia.
Let's talk about that in more detail. How are you going to take Utopia with 20-30 mana? You're not a Necromancer who found an artifact in the center, fought some Topla, and replenished his mana. Of course, if you got a Helmet at the start, found Wings (+3 knowledge) during respec, and got something else from the upgrades, then maybe. Do you know some secret word that makes such good luck happen?
Even if you're lucky with your Summoning skill, you get a Crystal, and you have mana, you'll take Utopia with 2 stacks, but after that, it's highly questionable because you'll run out of mana.
And by the way, the Necromancer's Helmet isn't that rare at the start. So, I would have 40 mana.
In a real game, I've never found it.
And I would easily fight Kaspar.
Only with full mana and powerful spells, but you don't always get to choose the time of the encounter and the necessary mana costs. And what if it's already the beginning of the second week, and the Necromancer has raised 15 additional vampires, which is not uncommon on this map? IMO, it's better to sacrifice Lethos but ban Kaspar. The Elves have other worthy heroes. Of course, the Necromancer has Zoltan.
In reply to Fireball
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18 years ago
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Fireball;152345
So you broke through the guards, and you got lucky (insanely!) with your Summoning skill-ups.
What do you mean "got lucky"? You consistently get Summoning up to level 5. This time, I got it at level 3.
Fireball;152345
and what are you going to do in the center without mana?
And at the red respawn, after breaking through the guards, it's easy to slip away to the well for half a day's travel and replenish mana. And I don't intend to jump out there on day 4 — there's nothing to do there so early. I'd rather clear some mines, raise my level, and come out with spells and about 50 mana several days later (also if luck is on my side).
Fireball;152345
Tell me more about this part. How do you plan to take the Dragon Utopia with 20-30 mana... Maybe you know some magic word to get such a freebie?
I do. It's not a word, but a phrase: "Luck favors the strongest" :D
Fireball;152345
Even if you got lucky with Summoning skill-ups, the Crystal dropped and you have mana, you'll take the Dragon Utopia for 2 stacks, but beyond that it's very doubtful, because your mana will run out.
Why only 2? A full Dragon Utopia is taken easily. You just need sacrifices in the form of single Hunters to hold back the Dragons at the distant lines.

Fireball;152345
In a real game, I've never encountered him once.
Well, I have :p
I even had the Helmet of Chaos a couple of times. And as for the Emerald Slippers, almost every other time they are lying around somewhere near the start...
Fireball;152345
. True, the Necromancer also has Zoltan.
The Necro has a beast even scarier — Orson. Now he's a real piece of work. I already wrote in the Necropolis thread that I saw a replay where he clears the Dragon Utopia with 4 Vamps...

Generally, I hold the opinion that it's not very dignified to play as machinists on such maps. For example, in "Duel," I lost miserably to Hafiz without the slightest chance.
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18 years ago
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And on the red starting location, it’s easy to travel to the well after breaking through the guards and replenish your mana.
Yes, the red starting location is good. So you want the well to be nearby, to be able to move around without penalties, and to go first. That’s a bit too much to ask.
And I’m not going to rush there on the 4th day – there’s nothing to do there so early. I’d rather clear out some mines, level up, and go out with spells and mana around 50.
Without artifacts, maybe 30 (or if you’re lucky), one Knowledge point at the start, one in the upgrade (an unpleasant detour), and hope for one more.
a few days later (also with some luck).
Not later, but late. It will be late.
I know. It’s not a word, but a phrase: “Luck favors the bold.”
But the more modest ones tell about it.
Why on day 2? Utopia is easily taken. You just need sacrifices in the form of weak Hunters who will hold back the Dragons on the distant borders.
You can specify the day, level, and stat progression.
Necropolis has an even scarier creature – Orson. He’s definitely a nasty one. I already wrote in the Necropolis branch that I saw a replay where he cleared Utopia with 4 Vampires...
Orson is a specific character and not always strong, although sometimes he just goes wild. And we’re not impressed by replays. I’ve done this trick a couple of times in games, and not just with Orson.
In general, I think it’s not very fair to play with pre-set heroes on such maps. For example, on “Duel,” I lost badly to Hafiz without a chance.
But this is also a kind of game: imbalance against imbalance. It’s somewhat reminiscent of the third game, where there are also very few hero and upgrade options. But my opinion is that if you want to ban a pre-set hero for your opponent, give them the right to ban one hero for you as well.

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