The Philosophy of Heroes of Might and Magic. — The unified universe of Might and Magic.

Драко

18 years ago

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I decided to write a small review (or maybe a large one :D) on the philosophy of Heroes of Might and Magic (all parts). Why is this needed? Let's just say that since a certain part of my life is connected with creating poems and some prose, this will be a good help in creating various plots. And where there are new plots, new worlds of Heroes will definitely appear (new heroes, creatures, artifacts, maps, etc.), and if they appear, the future of Heroes will be ensured for many years to come. As you understand, philosophy in general is a rather broad concept, including various areas. I propose to discuss several: 1. Ontology (the doctrine of being). 2. Gnoseology (the doctrine of knowledge). 3. Philosophical anthropology (the doctrine of the origin and development of man, i.e., the hero or creature). 4. Ethics (the doctrine of communication). 5. Social philosophy (the doctrine of the society of heroes). I will start with ontology. The main questions that should be answered here are: what does the being of the world of Heroes include? Does some higher power exist that created this world? How do Good and Evil relate in the world of heroes? Can it be considered dialectically? It is unlikely that the world of Heroes of Might and Magic can be called dualistic. For example, there is no categorical division into good and evil. If we look at Heroes 3, then the Castle and Rampart are considered good Castles, and Necropolis and Inferno are considered evil. The rest are located in between them on this axis, acquiring both red, gray, and yellow hues. Perhaps the only sign of dualism is the division into male and female. It is unlikely that the world of Heroes can be called static in its development. The laws of dialectics can be applied to it, as to any other living subject. Isn't there a struggle here as a driving force of historical development? It definitely exists. After all, what is the meaning of a hero's life if not in struggle - the struggle for power, the struggle against evil, the struggle of sword against magic! I very much ask you, my friends, to take this seriously and help by asking the necessary questions, as well as giving answers to them as much as possible. I propose to organize a kind of discussion club about Heroes of Might and Magic in this topic. P.S.: A few rules: 1. No jokes and pranks, except for those that are relevant. 2. No questions and comments about the topic itself (whether it is necessary, etc.).

XEL

18 years ago

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Драко;115988

I will start with ontology. The main questions that should be answered here are: what does the existence of the world of Heroes include?

If you are talking about cosmology, then the structure of the Universe in Heroes is no different from the real one. It consists of many metagalaxies (which in turn include billions of galaxies), nebulae, and so on. The action of all games in the Might and Magic and Heroes of Might and Magic series takes place, apparently, in the Milky Way galaxy (which is where Earth is located).

Драко;115988

Does a higher power exist that created this world?

It exists (I am talking about the planet of Heroes 1-3 and Might and Magic 6-8). More precisely, not created, but brought intelligent (and almost all other) life into it, changed its ecosystem and biosphere to its current state. This is a civilization with enormous technological development, called the Ancients.

Драко;115988

How do Good and Evil relate to each other in the world of Heroes?

As you already said, there is no clear division between Good and Evil in the world of Heroes. But if we consider it from the perspective of the Ancients mentioned earlier, then Evil is:
devils
demons
everything else that harms their experiments,
Good:
everything else that does not harm the Ancients' experiments.

Драко;115988

If we look at Heroes 3, then the Castle and Rampart are considered good factions, while the Necropolis and Inferno are considered evil.

Here is my classification of the alignments of the factions in the third Heroes game according to D&D (based on the events of Might and Magic 7 and the campaigns of Heroes 3):
Castle - Lawful Good, Chaotic Good, True Neutral
Rampart - Lawful Good, Neutral Good
Tower - Lawful Neutral, Chaotic Good, True Neutral
Dungeon - Neutral Evil, Lawful Evil, Chaotic Evil
Necropolis - Neutral Evil
Inferno - Lawful Evil, Neutral Evil
Stronghold - Chaotic Neutral, Lawful Good, Chaotic Evil
Fortress - True Neutral, Neutral Good, Lawful Good
Conflux - True Neutral, Lawful Good, Chaotic Evil

Драко

18 years ago

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I agree with many points. Although I'm used to considering the world of Heroes (mainly 2, 3, and 4) separately. Friends, please continue to share your thoughts on the ontology, without forgetting about other areas of the philosophy of Heroes. Most importantly, what thoughts do you have about the existence of Heroes? And our discussion club is growing :) What can we say about the social philosophy of Heroes? What does the society of Heroes look like? Is it just a group of Lords engaged in internecine wars (for the amusement of the Ancients)? Or is their society characterized by deep connections that permeate the entire structure? And, by the way, what is this structure? Is it a clan-based social structure? Is there a class or estate division? How does society develop: from primitive communalism to socialism and communism? Or perhaps according to the theory of civilizations? We can ask such questions. Of course, we can only rely on our own worldview. But even here there is a "but" - what if we discover some previously unknown structure of society, which would be better than what communism promised (and never delivered)? Join the conversation!

Мечтатель

18 years ago

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In my opinion, the society of heroes should be considered in the following way: 1) By representing it as one large whole. 2) By representing it as a group of societies. I would like to pay more attention to point 2. Each race (faction? I don't know what would be better to say) represents a separate group with a distinct mentality and "national" characteristics. For example, Barbarians are quick-tempered and used to solving problems with their fists. Mages are somewhat arrogant, although not without reason. They are a race of wise men, skilled craftsmen, and, of course, wizards. Judging by their cities, they are used to solving their problems with their minds. Each race can be described in this way. But let's move on to the first point. A characteristic of the Heroes' society is that it is stagnant in its social development (I am only considering the third game). The only attempt to change something was made by the Elves. Part of the Elves separated from Avli and created their own state (correct me if I am wrong). This was described in Armageddon's Blade. Here, it should be noted that this was not a revolution, or even any kind of social change, and certainly not social development. It was just a change in the political map of the Heroes' world. Is there a class or estate division? There is definitely a division, and not just one. The very distribution of units by levels indicates a hierarchical division, something like subordination. Again, the presence of peasants, kings, etc., indicates a division of society into classes, BUT! There is a caveat: each race has its own way. The social divisions described above apply fully only to the Castle (Humans).

Starhan

18 years ago

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It seems that all games in the Might and Magic and Heroes of Might and Magic series take place in the Milky Way galaxy (which is where Earth is located).

Why do you think so?

2 Draco

not for amusement of the ancients
they were created by the ancients to develop, evolve, and spread life throughout the universe (which was almost extinct due to the war between the ancients and their creators).

and of course, like us humans, they have internal conflicts
(even if we don't take Inferno into account, which appeared in Might and Magic VI and Heroes of Might and Magic III)
so the entire history of Might and Magic is a series of wars.

In reply to Starhan

eXeCuToR

18 years ago

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Starhan;116143

Why do you think so?

2 Dragons

not for amusement of the Ancients
they were created by the Ancients to develop, evolve, and spread life throughout the universe (in which it was almost extinct due to the war between the Ancients and the Creators).

and of course, like humans, they have internal conflicts
(even if we don't take into account Inferno, which appeared in Might and Magic VI and Heroes of Might and Magic III)
so the entire history of Might and Magic is a series of wars.

For example, the human kingdom is presented as a fairly standard feudal state, in which constant wars were commonplace.
I don't think that everything that lives in the world of Heroes can be considered as one society. Simply by definition, the societies of necromancers and elves (for example) cannot be attributed to one group.

Драко

18 years ago

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I will express my opinion, which partially coincides with yours. One can conclude that a "Heroes Society" exists, based on the common traits found in different "racial" societies. Specifically, these are the basic units that make up society: 1. The presence of social groups. 2. Lords - rulers, practically Gods. 3. Creatures - those who are subordinate to the Lords. Neutrals are outside of society, like marginals. Furthermore, the social groups themselves: 1. The highest level - the race, they are absolutely different, except for the goals of existence - self-development, self-care, etc. 2. The social class of Lords - they directly manage and direct the development of the race. 3. The social class of Creatures - they are subordinate to the Lords, the workforce, the warriors. 4. Subclasses: for Lords - mages, warriors, battle mages (for Heroes of Might and Magic III); mages, archers, swordsmen (I don't remember the names - for Heroes of Might and Magic IV). Creatures are divided into subclasses by levels; they can also be divided into magical (having features related to magic), warriors (having features related to military art), and ordinary. The latter division is rather conditional. 5. Family - the cell of our society, but not the society of Heroes. No Lord can marry a Creature (I haven't heard of it). Lords marry their own kind, but such marriages are rare (Roland and Catherine). Society is characterized by stable social connections. For example, humans and demons are eternal enemies. Social classes and subclasses are also characterized by these very connections. A large response with numerous details could be developed here, but I will not do that. I will only give an example: the struggle of lords for rivalry within the race, the joining of foreign armies (in Heroes of Might and Magic IV), etc. Thus, the Heroes Society exists and develops. Development is manifested in the fact that, as Dreamer rightly pointed out, races conquer lands or migrate. Again, the laws of dialectics come into play. However, perhaps there are other examples of all kinds of development (because it can be not only extensive but also intensive, not only quantitative but also qualitative)?

In reply to Драко

Мечтатель

18 years ago

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Draco;116211

In particular, these are the basic units that make up society:
1. The presence of social groups.
2. Lords - rulers, practically Gods.
3. Creatures - those who are subordinate to the Lords. Neutrals are outside of society, like marginals.

Interestingly, I always considered the heroes to be generals, but no more (this refers to ordinary heroes, not from campaigns).
But the "campaign" heroes can be almost gods, as Draco noted.
In other words, there is also a hierarchy among the heroes.
For example.
Catherine - a queen (everything is clear here)
Christian - her subordinate, and therefore lower than her on the social ladder.

In reply to Starhan

XEL

18 years ago

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Starhan;116143

Why do you think so?

Many planets are similar to Earth. Although it is possible that their ecosystems have been altered. And this galaxy also has spiral arms (see the good ending of Might and Magic 7).

not for the amusement of the Ancients
they were created by the Ancients to develop and evolve

Uh-huh.

(in which it almost died out due to the war between the Ancients and the Creators).

Well, not exactly a war. It was a universal power struggle. It is quite possible that the Great Elemental War mentioned in Might and Magic 3 was part of it. The Creators (there are also alternative translations: Progenitors, Builders, etc.) most likely created the Krigans - demons.

Added 2 minutes ago

Dreamer;116226

Christian is her subject, and therefore lower than her on the social ladder.

Christian is not a subject of Catherine, but of Roland. That is, he is an Enrotean, not an Erathian, and is a subject of Catherine only as the queen of Enroth.

Added 1 minute ago

eXeCuToR;116174

It is simply impossible to classify the societies of necromancers and elves (for example) as belonging to the same group.

It is possible. As a group of civilizations created by the Ancients.

Мечтатель

18 years ago

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Christian is a subject of Roland, not Catherine. That is, he is an Enrothian, not an Erathian, and is only a subject of Catherine as the Queen of Enroth.
2 Xel
I apologize for the mistake. As I understand it, you are more knowledgeable about the history of Might and Magic than I am. In any case, the meaning of my words has not changed.

eXeCuToR

18 years ago

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Yes, XEL, you are right. We can also apply this to the heroes themselves. That is, any hero (Christian, Jelu, or any other) can be considered part of the highest caste of this world, regardless of their race. Indeed, if you think about it, all the factions in this world can be considered part of one society. But only if you perceive their goals in a very general way. If you look more closely, each race has different goals, and their self-preservation manifests itself in very different ways.

In reply to eXeCuToR

Драко

18 years ago

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eXeCuToR;116250

Yes, XEL, you are right. We can also apply this to the heroes themselves. That is, any hero (Christian, Jelu, or any of them...) can be considered part of the highest caste of this world, regardless of their race.
Indeed, if you think about it, all the factions in this world can be considered part of one society. But only if you perceive their goals in a very general sense. If you look more closely, each race has different goals, and their self-preservation manifests itself in completely different ways.

That's right, we need to look at it in a general sense. Please give an example of what goals different races have and how they demonstrate self-preservation.

By the way, I didn't even consider the fact that there is also a division among the Lords. With humans, it's clear - their society, as already mentioned, resembles human society (our medieval one), but what about other races? Do they have a division of Lords into those who command and those who obey?

This raises an interesting question about power relations, which, as you know, are formed from subjects, objects, and power (the relationship between them).
Subjects: Lords. Only Lords. It is doubtful that one being would be subordinate to another (on the other hand, in Heroes 4, this is quite possible - and in principle, a stronger being must, by definition, subordinate the weaker ones).
Objects: Creatures, of course. But, considering the above, Lords can also be objects! And that is quite surprising. This subordination can be seen in the game itself: we choose one hero, developing him to the maximum, while the others perform supporting functions.
Power: power is expressed in management and strength (is there anything else - I don't remember). Lords manage because they either use force or are stronger. Sometimes management is based on feelings (Again, Catherine and her companions)

Starhan

18 years ago

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I also believe that heroes are simply mercenaries (as they were in Might and Magic 1), even in the second Might and Magic game. When I captured Roland's Castle, I bought a couple of his heroes (Kilburn and others). But Roland and Archibald cannot be recruited in the campaigns in any way. The heroes themselves (judging by their descriptions) are completely different in terms of abilities. For example, Archibald is strong in Necromancy, or Christian (an artilleryman, if I'm not mistaken), but we level them up ourselves in the campaigns (there are still some conventions and assumptions), which is why one hero is a demigod according to the scenario (Tarnum, for example), and another is just a simple thief. Therefore, you can figure out for yourself what happened to them when they were defeated: did he run away (the thief), or was he resurrected (Tarnum)? Also, heroes are not just people; they are also djinns, elementals, gnolls, etc. And what do you think, in a one-on-one fight, who would win: a fire elemental or a human or a gnoll? I'm talking about the campaigns; simple scenarios (non-plot-related) are variations on the theme of "what if...": Christian goes and kills Catherine, and so on. Added after 12 minutes

Draco;116359

By the way, I didn't even consider the fact that there is also a division among the Lords. It's clear with humans - their society, as mentioned, resembles human society (our medieval one), but what about other races? Do they have a division of Lords into subordinates and those who command?

This raises an interesting question about power relations, which, as you know, are formed by subjects, objects, and power (the relationship between them).
Subjects: Lords. Only Lords. It's doubtful that one being would be subordinate to another (on the other hand, this is quite possible in the fourth game - and in principle, a strong being must, by definition, subordinate the weak).
Objects: Creatures, of course. But, considering the above, Lords can also be objects! And this is quite surprising. This subordination can be seen in the game itself: we choose one hero, leveling him up to the maximum, while the others perform supporting functions.
Power: power is expressed in management and strength (there is something else - I don't remember). Lords manage because they either use force or are stronger. Sometimes management is based on feelings (again, Catherine and her companions).

Of course, there is a division in other races as well: the Barbarians have anarchy with recognition of strength, Inferno has a rigid structure (I don't know how to express it correctly, like a Colony in general), and I think the Cove have democracy (because they created their state after being freed from slavery), and so on. (Here, you shouldn't confuse the plot lines with the game system). A hero is not necessarily a Lord; it is a character who is significant for the plot. He can also be a marginal figure in society

In reply to Starhan

Драко

18 years ago

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Starhan;116360

...a hero isn't necessarily a Lord – it's a character who is significant to the storyline; they can also be an outcast in society.

Please explain.
Maybe we understand "Lords" differently.
And what do you mean by "outcast"? As in a neutral creature (a Lord)?

In reply to Драко

XEL

18 years ago

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Drako;116359

It's clear with people - their society, as already mentioned, resembles human society (our medieval one).

Progressive Middle Ages. Neither in Erathia, nor in Harmondale, nor in Bracad, nor even in Nighon, are there inquisitorial bonfires, conservatism, or a denial of development and progress.

Drako;116359

Sometimes, governance is based on feelings (Again, Catherine and her companions:))

Catherine??? Based on feelings? What makes you say that? You probably read the story "Catherine's Heart" on the Hugo Corner. This is not a reliable source, far from it. If Catherine's governance was based on feelings, she wouldn't have been able to properly rule Erathia for five years and win the war against Eofol. Yes, she loved her homeland and her father. But shouldn't every decent ruler do that?

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