Action timer in combat. — Tournament History

Juristis

11 years ago

Auto-translated

Today, I was watching another stream from some members of our Heroes community, and I was incredibly frustrated, and this isn't the first time, by how long players take to think about their moves in the final battle. Sometimes it feels like Heroes is played not by intellectuals, but by people with intellectual disabilities. Sorry if I offended anyone, but I just had to say it. So, I suggest we discuss the possibility of adding an option like a "Turn Timer in Battle" to the HD mod and discuss the size of this timer and additional features. I would like the option to stop it (two-sided, of course, or like in S:B, the pause is taken unilaterally, but the other player can cancel it). Perhaps other options will come to mind. But all of this is open for discussion, of course. I'm interested in the opinions of forum members, please share them. If there are many who want it, I think we can ask Baratortcha to introduce such an option. Thank you all for your attention!

KobRa_RR

11 years ago

Auto-translated

I suggest banning Yurist for being too fast and outperforming everyone else. :trollface: He moves too quickly; I don't have time to do my own things.

Palach HP

11 years ago

Auto-translated

First, let me say something about you. You're an excellent player! One of the fastest, too. But most of your failures, mistakes, and defeats stem from your haste! The final battle is what we strive for when playing this game. It's the highlight of the entire game, so to speak. Beautiful final battles are already rare, and with everyone's clumsiness, there are a huge number of mistakes and frustrating defeats. There's no need to introduce any time limits; let people think calmly during the final battles. That's why intellectuals play, because they calculate several rounds ahead in these battles. We've already shortened the timer as much as possible; here, be respectful of yourself and your opponent, and don't ruin the most beautiful part of our game.

Dirty_Player

11 years ago

Auto-translated

The ideas seem good, but on the other hand, truly complete final versions are quite rare, so it's hard to get too invested in them.

Gomunguls

11 years ago

Auto-translated

Play for stakes; often, the game doesn't even reach the final stage... :D

skd

11 years ago

Auto-translated

The idea is sound.
Based on my experience, I've had several final battles that lasted around an hour, and in those, the correct move is immediately obvious, but since the timer isn't ticking, you can get distracted, switch heroes, change the music, or go make some tea =). I sometimes allow myself this indulgence, attacking one unit with another during my turn and moving away while my unit is in action.
Overall, I had a similar idea, but it needs to be implemented primarily as a preventative measure to avoid players getting distracted, so the timer should provide a generous amount of time.
What should be the principle behind such a timer?
For example, if it's feasible, 1 unit of HP equals a certain amount of time in battle. In a player-versus-player battle, the HP of all units at the beginning of the battle is summed and multiplied by the time cost, and each player is given half of the resulting timer, with a small amount of time added for each turn in the battle.
Also, what happens if a player doesn't manage to make their move – does the unit go into defense mode, or does an autobattle start?
In my opinion, implementing such a change would be difficult.

In reply to Palach HP

Dark

11 years ago

Auto-translated

Palach HP

First, let me say something about you. You're an excellent player! One of the fastest, too. But most of your failures, mistakes, and losses stem from your haste!
The final battle is what we strive for when playing this game. It's the highlight of the entire game, so to speak. Beautiful final battles are already rare, and thanks to everyone's clumsiness, there are a huge number of mistakes and frustrating defeats. There's no need to introduce anything; let people think calmly during the final battles. That's why intellectuals play, because they calculate several rounds ahead in these battles. We've already shortened the timer as much as possible; be respectful of yourself and your opponent, and don't ruin the most beautiful part of our game.

lawyer>executioner! Did I say it well?:cool:

Added after 30 seconds

Dirty_Player

The ideas are good, but on the other hand, full-fledged final battles are extremely rare, so there's no need to worry about it.

just a sweet guy:cool:

P.S.
The topic is relevant; I support it

HellLighT

11 years ago

Auto-translated

I agree with Yurik; it's frustrating when some matches take too long. Time is also an important factor. If possible, it would be great to implement a turn-based system where the time starts when the battle is "accepted." A base time of 15 minutes, plus 30 seconds (or a minute) for each subsequent action, could be used. I'm not sure if this is possible, but it would be very cool. Sometimes, I get tired of waiting for people who take 30 minutes to think and then make a mistake. I just think that dragging things out is a bad habit. Of course, sometimes it's important to use a calculator or look something up, but that's what the base time is for... But even then, the problems don't end. You think your opponent spent 30 minutes thinking about their battle strategy, and then they spend another 20 minutes on their next action! There should also be a time limit on tactics (I'm ready to strangle players like Reddit, where just setting up the formation takes 30 minutes).

In reply to KobRa_RR

Juristis

11 years ago

Auto-translated

KobRa_RR

I suggest banning Yurist for being too fast and outperforming everyone else :trollface:
He moves too quickly, I don't have time to do my own things.

As if we play together often. As far as I remember, we only played once, and that was in a tournament.

In reply to Palach HP

Heroin_HP

11 years ago

Auto-translated

Palach HP

The final battle is what we strive for when playing this game. It’s the highlight of the entire game, so to speak. Beautiful finales are rare, and due to the general lack of skill, there are a huge number of mistakes and frustrating defeats. There’s no need to introduce anything new; let people think calmly during the final battles. That’s why intellectuals play, because they calculate several rounds ahead in these battles. We’ve already shortened the timer as much as possible; be respectful of yourself and your opponent here, and don’t ruin the most beautiful part of our game.

+

Added 3 minutes ago

skd

Based on my experience.

No offense, but isn’t that a bit of an exaggeration, considering you’ve been playing online for over a year?

Added 2 minutes ago

skd

But since the timer isn’t ticking, you can take your time, minimize Heroes, switch tracks, go make some tea =). I sometimes allow myself this indulgence, attacking with a weak unit on a weak unit during my turn and stepping away while my unit is moving.

If you do that, it doesn’t mean everyone does.

Added 14 minutes ago
Regarding the topic – sometimes there are final battles with many possible developments, especially if it takes place without the red sphere and with full magic. You’ll end up thinking not about how to win, but about how much time is left to make your move. They introduced the chess norm – it’s a good idea, but when playing with it, I always try to hurry, even when there’s a lot of time left. I sometimes make mistakes because of this. In general, I can’t abstract myself from it. If a time limit is introduced in the final battle, in my opinion, it’s a negative for the game.

Added 7 minutes ago

KobRa_RR

I suggest banning Jurist as he’s too fast and gives an unfair advantage :trollface:
He moves too quickly; I don’t have time to do my things ((

In your case, you need to come up with a limit on taking a turn. If 5 minutes have passed and you haven’t taken your turn, your turn is skipped :D

Juristis

11 years ago

Auto-translated

For some reason, many perceive Heroes as a game where time doesn't matter, there should always be plenty of it, and it shouldn't influence decision-making. As if you can play leisurely, slowly moving the mouse and sipping a beer with the other hand. From my point of view, time is a very valuable factor that needs to be used and distributed wisely. Heroes is a turn-based strategy, but still a strategy, and what kind of strategist is unable to think quickly and make correct decisions? Yes, you will make more mistakes, but at the same time, it will stimulate your brain to work faster, and therefore you will improve as players. In the vast majority of cases, extra time won't help a person find the right path to victory; if they don't see it within the allotted 4 minutes (let's assume), they probably won't see it in 10 or 20 minutes either.

In reply to Juristis

Heroin_HP

11 years ago

Auto-translated

Juristis

For some reason, many perceive Heroes as a game where time doesn't matter, there should always be plenty of it, and it shouldn't influence decision-making. As if you can play leisurely, moving the mouse with one hand and sipping a beer with the other. From my point of view, time is a very valuable factor that needs to be used effectively and distributed wisely. Heroes is a turn-based strategy, but what kind of strategist is unable to think quickly and make correct decisions? Yes, you will make more mistakes, but at the same time, it will stimulate your brain to work faster, and therefore you will improve as players. In the vast majority of cases, extra time won't help a person find the right path to victory; if they don't see it within the allotted 4 minutes (let's assume), they probably won't see it in 10 or 20 minutes either.

Well, that's why they introduced a chess timer; what's the point of limiting the turn time?

In reply to Heroin_HP

Sanin

11 years ago

Auto-translated

Regarding the topic – I am against it.

Heroin_HP

In your case, you need to come up with a limit on turn-taking. If 5 minutes pass and a turn hasn't been taken, the turn is skipped.

There is a checkbox to start the timer after taking a turn; you can simply not enable it, especially since the rules don't require it. :D

skd

Also, what happens if a player doesn't have time to take their turn – does the unit go into defense or does autobattle turn on?

This is the most interesting question.

Maretti

11 years ago

A FB that takes an hour is just boring to watch. Just because the timer isnt running doesnt mean you should spend endless time. So I support Juristis in this case.

On the other hand I think we could need more time pr. day late game. In almost all games that goes to month 2 both players are out of time and it hurts the quality alot. Maybe a shorter start time and an increase of time pr day late game would work better.